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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LW Discussion On Resolution (Page 1 of 8)
Posted: 8/1/2006 7:36:07 AM EDT
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Please read Edwards post here: LW Thread or the quoted text below. At this time we will address as much as possible, but keep in mind that LW will need to answer the more specific questions on their actions. 
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That may help. But as it stands, the information is not satisifactory, and despite Edward's assertion, I do not personally consider this to be "done". |
 While I am aware of the entire situation I would like to hear L-W issue a formal statement -- including the actions taken against the individual XXX who imitated a USSOCOM Maj on both this board and Ligthfighter. In doing so not only violated a number of laws against such practise -- but also then used the "alias" to slander other companies. Using this board and Lightfighter as a tool to spread his tripe. |
 Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyedit to add: I tell ya, this is like watching TV waiting for the the announcement on a Presidential impeachment decision, or something along those line. I may have to take the afternoon off so I don't get fired watching ARFCOM at work.
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As has been said in another of these related threads, this is not our forum, we do not get to make the rules. But this supposed revelation sucks big time. I am sure LW will also get a glowing review when you do your "UNBIASED" review of their product. Am I just from a time period that doesn't exist anymore? I was taught actions (and words) have consequenses. If one misbehaved at a friends house they had free reign to wake the crap out of you and send you home. What a misserable walk that was as you know they were on the phone to your parents and you got it again even worse when you got home. It is my worthless opinion that we need and deserve some accountability here. I am sure I am not the only one who originally got interested in LW products as they were shown to be better than the competition in the military trials that one HFG was suppossedly privy to. To the owners and administrators of AR15.com, I ask you to be the neighbors of old. Do what you need to do to LW but tell us so we can do what we need to do in judging whether or not we choose to support LW with our hard earned dollars or not. Just a simple request but as it stands now in my opinion the upcoming unbaised review will seem like another post from HFG. |
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Maybe I'm still a little overly touchy about the 6.5 Grendel and Alexander Arms bashing that we've endured at the hands of LWRC and PLW, specifically, but I'm not entirely satisfied that this board has cleared its good name and has proved that it is not willing to overlook egregious behavior for the sake of advertising dollars. I repeat here what I just posted in the LW Forum: "Read Mr. Avila's decision in the General Discussion and I want to say that a week ago I predicted that it would go down exactly as it has gone down. Oh well, business as usual. . . . Looking forward to the next "leak" of the 10,000 unit order from the Delta SEAL Recon Forces. Of course, it won't be chambered in the "Groandel," which Paul Leitner-Wise, George Joy, and "Krusty" have all informed us is dangerously overpressure (forcing George to sell his "Groandel" for fear of his life) and doesn't work in full-auto. All this was based, of course, on their extensive and objective testing of it." John P.S. I have requested authorization to reprint findings, if necessary, from a certain USMC Major who personally checked into certain claims made by PLW regarding his system and the USMC. I don't really intend to reprint them here, because I just want to post this one bitch and then shut up and let it drop, but they are just another bit of evidence exposing what we've been dealing with here. |
IMO, Their response needs to be completely open, honest and humble and it needs to be posted today if they still have any hope of regaining any trust or respect on this or any other forum. They've had more then enough time to get their arms around this by now. Just my $.02 |
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UNREAL to say the least...before I layout what I have to say, I will hold my tongue until I have seen LW's "formal reply" Ill let it be known now those who have contacted me personally via my non board email concerning this issue, know the score, and they are not civilian shooters in the least... Edward Avila says in the same paragraph, "Leitner-Wise has a number of excellent products that stand on their own merits without needing to resort to any sort of false embellishments or competitive criticism. These products are in use and evaluation throughout the world, and with members of AR15.com that can attest to their performance. We will be posting our own review of Leitner-Wise products in the next few days/weeks, in order to provide our own unbiased opinions." So your going to give us an unbiased opinion while right before you say they make a number of excellent products...come on man...I didnt need to go to law school to see that one.... |
Kevin- so this wasn't an actual Major in SOCCOM? I'm shocked i tell you, shocked! How does that hold for those who used bold font to proclaim that they "know" him and "who he really is". Could it be that they were also stretching the truth? Or, just shilling with the crowd....? |
Make it $0.04 |
I was/am unaware of any duplicate accounts on LF.net by any of the LWRC crew. On a personal note, I will be glad to see this issue gone for good. LWRC makes some excellent products and I would hate to see their reputation destroyed for what amounts to petty infractions by one employee. Good luck guys and I look forward to using more of your products in the future. Stephen |
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Until they make their statement I will hold myself to say that the quality of their products or the resolution of this issue has nothing to do with their advertising here. If their explanation is lacking enough details to correct the wrongs, then we'll remove them as advertisers. Even if we do so, the final verdict doesn't come from us on this it comes from all of you. A product stands on it's own merits and companies tend to lose that focus when it comes to competition, but if it's solid, it's solid. A company's representation and character impact our motivation to support them in a positive or negative manner and that is what's at stake here. In the end it all comes down to each of us as consumers. We have the final vote by choosing how we spend our money. These problems took place not just on this site, but across a number of site, so keep in mind that it's an issue bigger than us and why the company had to take action while we waited in the wings. We here have already removed all these users from the site as we stated previously and we brought the information to the public as needed. We've also allowed LW to address the issue internally. Don't think for one second that we have any power over them or their business decisions, we're a web community. We've been more involved in this matter than we cared to be and we've tried very hard to put forth this effort on your behalf. If this still makes you unhappy about being here, then leave because I am tired of working my ass off and getting shit on for my efforts. No resolution is perfect, but we will act in what we feel is in the best interests of the site, not what YOU feel is your proper solution. Trust me, one advertiser doesn't make or break the site's future so get over yourselves and the bullshit about it being a money issue. In regards to our review of their product, it will be conducted in house and we will be impartial as we have been in the past. We'll also be doing a number of other product reviews and standing behind them all. Please don't pick today to be an ass because it will only ruin this discussion and put me in a worse place than I already am. It's been a long drawn out issue and while you guys sat here waiting, we've been doing everything we can to deal with it. Be pissed at LW if you're unhappy with their actions, but know there is a line which I wont allow to be crossed in how you address me, my family, or the site. At least be smart enough to give me a few days to calm down, relax, and make our decisions based on how LW handles this. |
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I'm disappointed. . At a minimum they should have been admonished by site staff for the competititor bashing that I provided a link to. Bomber Edited to strike through how I feel in deference to Goatboy's comments that posted while I was composing the above. |
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Sorry BK.....a little timing issue. I do however stand by the last sentence. Advertisers should not be allowed to bash competitors. Bomber |
| Full disclosure, with names. Pure and simple. People tend to want to make things complicated. It's all about expectations: "If you fuck with people, expect to get fucked". Open deception requires open and detailed disclosure. HFG, CmdrColt, and 3shotburst were very detailed in "their" disclosures and discussions. Their coming out party should include equal quantities of detail. Otherwise, don't bother posting anything and just leave ARFCOM. Honesty and integrity, coupled with decisive action, would represent a true INVESTMENT in the company's future. |
And Juan already stated that this was going to be dealt with more serverely then it was before. IMHO..AR15.com did what it had to do..the ball is in LW's court now and how they respond will affect the company greatly..for better or worse. |
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GB- I personally feel that you have done a very good job trying to be the calm level headed mediator in this, which is obviously something you did NOT need to do, but did anyways- so, I applaud you for your efforts and feel that you have done a much better job than anyone else could have, or even would have done. As for LW, whoever was responsible for all of this should be fired, plain and simple. If they continue to allow this person to represent their company through employment, then I will choose another piston design for my upcoming build. I understand mistakes are made, and shit does happen. One mans actions cannot detirmine the fate of an entire company, atleast in my opinion. That one man however, should be terminated immediately. |
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Every company has a "Culture". A company's culture is defined by how the employees treat each other, their customers and the community as a whole. Bomber Edited to address Striker's comments above. I applaud the AR15 for holding LW's feet to the fire. I also think that in order to maintain control of Advertiser actions, what ever punishment needs to be stiff and public if it's to be a deterent. My humble opinion.....Goatboy, you are obviousl a fair minded and level headed person....Kudos 
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You there, yes, in the owners chair. .... Pack up your shit and leave. YOURE FIRED! NOt being an ass today, as ordered). 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LW Discussion On Resolution (Page 1 of 8)
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