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Posted: 4/10/2006 3:37:10 PM EDT
My stock 16" Bushy runs a champ so I've got no complaints but I am curious about something. What is the most common ejection angle on an AR with and without a brass deflector? My brass seems to fly off at about 2-2:30 no matter what type I'm firing. The reason I'm asking is mostly out of curiosity because I've seen pics posted here with brass flying all over the place.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:54:12 PM EDT
All 3 of mine have brass deflectors. The 2 carbines throw it out at about 1 or 2 o'clock and my 20" throws it out at 4 o'clock. It is correctable but it doesn't bother me, they(the carbines) function fine so I don't worry about it. I think I remember someone saying it was something about too much or not enough tension on the extractor.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:31:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:45:14 PM EDT
For me (with a deflector), Federal American Eagle thorws brass to 6:30, Wolf and Silver Bear to 4:00, and Winchester white box to 5:00, M855 to 5:00.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:48:40 PM EDT
Never really looked. I just got my bushy carbine recently and shot about 500 rounds and my deflector is brass scratched pretty nicely. So I'm guessing 4 o'clock or more.

You say it's adjustable? How, and is there a need?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:52:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By adfinder23:
Never really looked. I just got my bushy carbine recently and shot about 500 rounds and my deflector is brass scratched pretty nicely. So I'm guessing 4 o'clock or more.

You say it's adjustable? How, and is there a need?



Not so much as adjustable as correctable, although it doesn't appear to be an actual problem. Tweak posted something about how to fix it where it's down to 4 o'clock. If I remember right it was tension on the extractor, had to change the spring or something. I never worried about it because my two carbines that eject forward run just fine.

They are hitting the deflector and it's not causing any undue wear anywhere so it don't bother me.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:58:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragonfly228:
For me (with a deflector), Federal American Eagle thorws brass to 6:30, Wolf and Silver Bear to 4:00, and Winchester white box to 5:00, M855 to 5:00.




Bet that AE is hell on your forhead.


Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:05:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dragonfly228:
For me (with a deflector), Federal American Eagle thorws brass to 6:30, Wolf and Silver Bear to 4:00, and Winchester white box to 5:00, M855 to 5:00.



It throws it directly backwards?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 11:53:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:

Originally Posted By adfinder23:
Never really looked. I just got my bushy carbine recently and shot about 500 rounds and my deflector is brass scratched pretty nicely. So I'm guessing 4 o'clock or more.

You say it's adjustable? How, and is there a need?



Not so much as adjustable as correctable, although it doesn't appear to be an actual problem. Tweak posted something about how to fix it where it's down to 4 o'clock. If I remember right it was tension on the extractor, had to change the spring or something. I never worried about it because my two carbines that eject forward run just fine.

They are hitting the deflector and it's not causing any undue wear anywhere so it don't bother me.





It can be for us southpaws who like to shoot the early types w/no brass deflectors.

The answer is to be found in the extractor spring. The stiffer the spring, the more to the 3-4 o'clock position empties will be thrown.

Using Wolff HD extractor springs, my M16/M16A1 clones toss them out about 3 o'clock, and the XM177E2 between 4 and 4:30. The M4gery, w/the hump, barely marks the extreme tip of the hump. The slight smear wipes right off w/a solvent soaked patch at the end of the day, and there is no marking of the finish underneath.

I added black inserts to the spring installations a few weeks back, but haven't had the chance to see what difference, if any, these will make in the angle. Will be at the range this weekend, and will report back
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:07:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 4:13:35 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
Potty-training one's AR15 is something done by most HP shooters to keep one's brass from interfering with the shooter to your right.

Done properly it is completely reliable and leaves one's brass in a neat little consistent pile for retrieval after the stage is over, (instead of having to look all over for it).

Start by purchasing a couple extra "ejector" springs and ejector retaining pins, (or simply pull one of each from your "spare-parts" which YOU should have already)

Using a Dremel disk cutter or a fine pair of jeweler's pliers, start by trimming 2 rounds off the "replacement" ejector spring, (make certain there are no burrs on the spring and attempt to make the cut as straight as possible, DO NOT bend or otherwise tweak the spring during this process).

Disassemble the bolt (I use a vise, a friend and an expended piece of brass); with bolt in vise have friend insert inert brass into the bolt face depressing the ejector (which relieves the tension on the ejector retaining pin and shifts ejector back to it's inletted area). As friend holds tension on the brass, using the proper 1/16" (IIRC) punch, tap the ejector retaining pin toward the bottom of the bolt, (note: it is NOT necessary to knock the pin all the way out and I rarely do, simply get her far enough out to remove the ejector and orig. spring). Have friend "slowly" release the tension and catch the ejector and spring.

Replace your "stock" ejector spring w/ the one you have trimmed and set-aside old one (save for Murphy and mark it as the original). Replace ejector and tap ejector retaining pin back into place, (this will be easier it ya haven't removed it completely as sometimes these little pins can be a bitch to get started, which is why ya better have spares IF ya remove it).

Shoot rifle and observe where the rounds are now falling, (might even want to see where they land from a prone position "before" additional modification).

If ya want to make additional mods to the brass location, remove spring and at this point (YMMV) take 1/2 coil off at time until the desired brass location is achieved.

You have now potty-trained your AR rifle.

Mike


ETA - please note: I never make this modification to any rifle other than those I use in SR or "F" class competition, all my M4s run stock ejector springs and while it has it's place in competition, there is no practical purpose for performing this mod to a SHTF rifle
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:47:30 AM EDT
FYI, my 16" mid-length with enhanced BCG, David Tubb's CS ISMI recoil spring, "H" buffer, and blue insert extractor spring with D-Fender throws Q3131 brass into the leading edge of the BD and off about 2 o'clock.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:12:05 AM EDT
www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote34.htm

From Armalite's Library, Tech Notes (Same applies to AR-15's):

TECHNICAL NOTE 34, ADJUSTING THE EJECTION PATTERN OF THE AR-10® RIFLE

Purpose:

To advise owners and gunsmiths how to adjust the ejection pattern of the AR-10B™ series rifle.

Background:

ArmaLite® occasionally receives complaints that expended cartridges ejected from the AR-10® strike and damage the rifle’s upper receiver. The most common complaints are that the case spins and strikes either the case deflector or the front of the ejection port opening.

These ejection patterns are common to all AR-15/M16™ pattern rifles. They are more noticeable on the AR-10® because the heavier cartridge case mars the finish of the receiver easier.

The ejection pattern of a rifle is created by a complex interplay of the opening velocity of the carrier group, and the extractor, ejector and their springs. In general, the faster the carrier group opens, or the stronger the extractor and ejector springs, the farther toward 12:00 (looking down on the rifle) the case is ejected. The weaker the springs are, or the slower the carrier group opens, the farther toward 6:00 the case is ejected.

ArmaLite® seeks an ejection pattern between 1:00 and 3:00, and inspects for this characteristic during inspection. Obviously, the carrier’s opening velocity is subject to differences in ammunition. Springs can take a set over time, and the ejection pattern eventually shifts toward 5:00. This is normal, and readily adjusted by extractor spring replacement and ejector spring timing.

The extractor spring and plunger can be changed during routine cleaning. The ejector spring can be replaced if ejection is too far to the rear, or tuned by shortening it a coil at a time if ejection is too far to the front. Tuned ejector springs will be between a minimum of .950 and a maximum of 1.015 inch long.

As usual, selection of good ammunition minimizes complaints.

Copyright © 1999 ArmaLite, Inc®.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 10:59:28 AM EDT
On carbines, you can adjust the ejection pattern with lighter or heavier buffers.

Lighter buffers mean that the b/bc assembly will be traveling rearward faster and causing the shells to bounce more forcefully off the SD (and possibly just the opening of the ejection port). When this happens, the shells fly in a more forward direction (i.e. 1:30, 2:00, 2:30).

With the heavier buffer, the b/bc are slowed in their rearward travel (more weight to move) and thus allow the ejector spring more time to kick the shell out of the ejection port. This results in the brass hitting the SD harder on the angled surface (instead of the straight surface at the rear of the ejection port) and are bouncing out more toward the right and they can actually get rearward motion too (i.e. 3:00, 3:30, 4:00, etc.). Carbines tend to eject more forward because of higher pressures causing the BC to be traveling faster than a rifle (we're talking gas systems here).

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:36:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 11:39:08 AM EDT by Mark82ndABN]

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
On carbines, you can adjust the ejection pattern with lighter or heavier buffers.

Lighter buffers mean that the b/bc assembly will be traveling rearward faster and causing the shells to bounce more forcefully off the SD (and possibly just the opening of the ejection port). When this happens, the shells fly in a more forward direction (i.e. 1:30, 2:00, 2:30).

With the heavier buffer, the b/bc are slowed in their rearward travel (more weight to move) and thus allow the ejector spring more time to kick the shell out of the ejection port. This results in the brass hitting the SD harder on the angled surface (instead of the straight surface at the rear of the ejection port) and are bouncing out more toward the right and they can actually get rearward motion too (i.e. 3:00, 3:30, 4:00, etc.). Carbines tend to eject more forward because of higher pressures causing the BC to be traveling faster than a rifle (we're talking gas systems here).WIZZO



Just by chance I actually confirmed this just yesterday as a matter of fact. I just replaced my regular gas tube with a PRI Fat Boy gas tube on my 16" (carbine length gas system) Bushy because based on what I've learned here on the forums I think this particular carbine was a bit over gassed. For shits and giggles I installed the Fat Boy tube to see if I could take "the edge off" and not only does the cycling feel smoother but the spent cases eject out at the 4:00 position now as apposed to the 2:00 position with the standard gas tube (the tube was the only thing I touched.....same extractor spring as before). As a side note I had no malfunctions what-so-ever with the new Fat Boy tube and she didn't seem to be beating the shit out of herself with the "high octane" military ammo as she did before. I ran several mags each of Hornady TAP, IMI M855, Federal American Eagle, South African surplus, Wolf and a few others just to see how she would perform and she never burped once.

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