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Posted: 4/2/2006 9:18:47 PM EDT
Time for a buy. I sold off my Colt SP-1 some years back in tough times... kept one of my Poly Tech Legends (the underfolder) to fill the semi auto rifle role. Naturally, I've always missed the AR15, and it's time to replace it.

My first choice would probably be a Colt 6920, but in searching, I've found them rare and way too expensive. I could see paying $250 more for one, but it seems they're going for more like $400 to $500 more. Can't justify that.

So, I'm thinking either a Bushmaster or an RRA M4 clone, wondering what you all suggest, and if you can refer me to a source with a great price (have a local FFL for transfers).

Thanks in advance (Oh, and I think this is my first post on this part of the board).
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:54:48 PM EDT
I know they are popular, but I too am partial to the middy gas system, 16" barreled ARs. I have an RRA Elite CAR A4 w/chrome-lined barrel which I really like. CMMG, etc. make variations on the middy lineup too.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:10:20 PM EDT
Either one you can't go wrong. I own two complete Bushmasters and one RRA lowered build.

Both are reliable proven brands.
RRA is tight, Bushmaster is loose.
One has a crosshair logo, the other has a venomous snake.
Finish is better on RRA.
Machining quality is about equal on both in my opinion. With RRA being tighter tolerances.
I belive both are RDIAS compatible.
I've shot complete rifles from both brands and they both shoot nice.

I'd buy whichever was cheaper or had what you want. I like my Bushmaster A2-14.5. I shoot it more than any of my others. A friend of mine has an RRA Entry Tactical and it shoots like a dream also.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:54:39 PM EDT
My RRA has a high shelf, and didn't come standard with a chrome lined bore.
My Bushmaster has a low shelf and has a chrome lined bore.
These are the only two major differences that meant anything to me.

I like both rifles. The RRA bbl profile is a bit too heavy. The RRA 2stage trigger is nice. Fit and finish on the RRA is better than the bushmaster. (though it's a nominal difference) My bushmaster has run for around 8k rounds and I wore out a disconnector at around 6k causing it to double on a very slow release of the trigger. (I'm pretty sure that it was improperly heat treated.) Other than that, the bushmaster has run like a champ.

The RRA is accurate, and has run reliably so far. (less than 2k rounds.)

Both are good rifles.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:22:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 11:31:52 PM EDT by BSheppard]
The RRA has M4 ramps but you have to pay more for the chrome lined barrel. Bushmaster does not offer the ramps even for more money. The RRA does not offer the light under the handguard option so its heavy (my biggest problem with them). The RRA has T marked upper that Bushmaster does not offer. The Bushmaster uses the good 4150 for the barrel like Colt. RRA uses the 4140. The RRA is tighter and has a better finish. Both are not parked under the front sight base like the Colts. I have both and it is a toss up.

If you want a Colt 6920... Clyde Armory has them for $1199.00
If you want a RRA... Eagle firarms has them for $849.00 with Chrome lined and carry handle
If you want a Bushmaster... Buds Gunshop has them for about $900.00
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:45:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:46:45 AM EDT
Guys, thanks for the replies, the tips and the sources! I'll start mulling the options, and in the near future I'll add pics of a "stock" (probably not for long, right?) factory rifle to the pics thread. Thanks again!
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:08:10 AM EDT
You would do well with either. Both are great guns (own an RRA myself).
-jls7
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:08:44 AM EDT
for fit, finish and $$$ you cant go wrong with RRA
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:57:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:00:27 AM EDT
Bushmaster
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:01:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:14:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I think M4 barrel profiles are stupid. Goto all the trouble to make a nice barrel in it, then cut if weak in one spot to mount a grenade launcher no one is ever going to have in civilian life.

Either RRA or Bushmaster you will be happy with.



You know, that really is a good point.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:19:21 PM EDT
If you go RRA look into buying the upper and lower sepratly. You can save a coup-le hundred that way if you shop around. RRA uppers and lowers have the same lifetime warrenty thier complete rifles do. If you really want a colt with the M4 cuts etc. and can't justify the extra money may I suggest looking at LMT complete uppers and lowers. They make most of Colts stuff and have m4 feedramp cuts.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:37:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I think M4 barrel profiles are stupid. Goto all the trouble to make a nice barrel in it, then cut if weak in one spot to mount a grenade launcher no one is ever going to have in civilian life.

Either RRA or Bushmaster you will be happy with.



You know, that really is a good point.



That is not a weak point. The weak point is close to where the barrel and upper go together.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:45:49 PM EDT
LMT is not the sub for Colt, although they make a good product. CMT subs for Colt and sells products under the CMT and Stag Arms trade names.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 2:47:35 PM EDT
I'd say buy a semi-complete (less barrel, bolt, carrier) RRA upper as they tend to be nice and tight and you can get your silly M4 feedramps and T-marks if you want. Then buy a stainless steel 14.5" Noveske barrel (turned down before gas block, fluted after) plus matched bolt. Buy a chrome plated carrier and key (or whatever fits your fancy) then get a nice set of free floating rifle length handguards to put over the low gas block. Slap that on top of a Bushy lower (low shelf, accu-wedge friendly) sans stock and for a stock get the Magpull M93B. After that you should have a rifle that constantly shoots sub-MOA, is small , light, and versatile.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:03:53 PM EDT
If you're looking at an M4 clone, you can either get a SBR ($200 tax) or one with a permanently affixed flash supressor, or you can get a 16 inch barrel.

If you're going to go the 16 inch route I would reccomend a midlength gas system. I really prefer mine to my standard 16" barrel.

Bushmaster doesn't offer the middy option, while Rock River does. I have been extremly pleased with mine. Chrome lined with ramps although the barrel is heavy. I went with the flat top upper, a Rock River tactical carry handle, and an Aimpoint.

I'm not sure what the difference is between a high shelf and a low shelf.

-K


Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:08:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSheppard:

Originally Posted By ManiacRat461:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
I think M4 barrel profiles are stupid. Goto all the trouble to make a nice barrel in it, then cut if weak in one spot to mount a grenade launcher no one is ever going to have in civilian life.

Either RRA or Bushmaster you will be happy with.



You know, that really is a good point.



That is not a weak point. The weak point is close to where the barrel and upper go together.



I don't know about that part. I'm not a metalurgist or an engineer. The part about the grenade launcher is a good point though.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:14:52 PM EDT

After dicking around w/ non-milspec FSBs for years, I have switched to LMT uppers from now on. I also like the M4 feed ramps.


RRA dremels their "M4 style" feedramps. BM has no extended ramps.

I believe neither have mil-spec FSBs.

YMMV
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:07:57 PM EDT
You could get a Sabre Defence 16" mid-length upper (no sights) in 1/7 twist with M4 extensions from Talon Arms for $555 (this is what I did), or a comparable upper from elsewhere, then get either a basic completed lower from RAA or Bushmaster or "build your own". But beware. Adding sights and mags, and if you get fancy with the lower, this approach may put you up near the Colt price you're trying to avoid. This is what happend to me.

Talon Arms

GL
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 11:51:06 PM EDT
I am an expert in this subject. You should buy Bushmaster and here is why:

I shot Colt A2's and A3's while in the Army in the early 90's.

I now own a Bushmaster that I have not even fired yet.

I have never fired or owned RRA.

Therefore Bushmaster is the best and if you want a superior product, buy Bushmaster. If you want inferior, then buy RRA.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:22:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 12:22:58 AM EDT by guam50]

Originally Posted By usagold:
for fit, finish and $$$ you cant go wrong with RRA



+1. I own both RRA and BM Carbines. I especially like the fit of the upper and lower RRA receivers - their rock solid. The only thing that I noticed different between the two is the quality of the extractor on the RRA over the BM. The trigger guard on the BM carbines are plastic (likewise for the ones that come with their LPKs).
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:44:20 AM EDT
Either way get you a 16 inch heavy barrel rather than an M4 look alike for that silly grenade launcher. You could get it fluted if you want less weight.
JR
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 3:59:23 AM EDT
I haven't seen any data that indicates a non-match grade heavy-barrel profile 16" will significantly outshoot the M4-profile 16" barrels assuming they are both made by a reputable vendor with quality materials.

The Guns and Ammo testing of the S&W MP15 was a good example of how a FFHG on a M4-profile 16" barrel almost does nothing to improve accuracy. The shooter, sights, and ammo were more important.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:43:47 AM EDT
Bushmaster,chromed lined & 4150 steel vs 4140 steel and none chrome lined as standard off the shelf purchases.

RRA is a range rifle, it isnt a bad AR, but it will never be a Bushmaster or Colt or even a Armalite.

This thread should be RRA vs DPMS.


TG
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:51:45 AM EDT
i personally like bushmaster.


with the ones i have bushmaster is better in quality.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:13:26 AM EDT
Get BOTH!

I have a RRA upper receiver, BCG, and CH. They fit with the Bushmaster barrel just perfectly, and the RRA parts seem to have great fit and quality. I went with Stag/CMT for my recent build and wished I went with RRA instead (I purchased a Bushmaster 16" M4 barrel).
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:33:27 AM EDT
Bushmaster, I'm totally happy with mine and have fired many Colts in full auto...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 6:41:55 AM EDT
I have mostly Bushmasters but have owned RR stuff and of late have been much impressed with Stag.

There are differences between the brands but it doesn't really make one better than the other. Sort of similar to the old Ford vs Chevy thing.
Look around at what local dealers have availible and what features are the most importaint to you and what deals you can find price wise .

One thing that I have found that stands out as a clear winner is the RRNM trigger. If you have a brownells discount I believe it is around $75 or $80 . I have been running this trigger in most all my BM and Stag guns. I did just find a great deal on a BM Varmit special (used) that has the BM competition trigger. I did not know such a thing existed and it is a fine trigger but I do not believe it is available anywhere at much of a discount .

I don't think you should worry much about the brand thing but work hard to get the configeration you want.
I have 4 different AR's and just by going with a diferent barrel length or profile it becomes a totally different gun .

The other way to look at it is that down the line you are going to wind up with 4 different ar's anyhow so it doesn't matter which one you buy first!
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