Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/29/2006 11:58:20 PM EDT
Evening

I was looking through my latest issue of SGN and I saw these two ads for a drop in Auto Sear for the AR. What gives? If the ATF can make it illegal for you to simply drill a hole through reciever of an HK91, so that you can put in a paddle release because it MIGHT allow you to put on a Full Auto capable trigger group. How can someone make and sell a Drop in Auto Sear for an AR?

Only thing I can think of is that it is some version of the hellfire trigger system or it is a POC that is design to take money out of your wallet.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:03:43 AM EDT
You forgot the other option, they are being sold by ATF agents and they dont accept PO Boxes as addresses... you figure out what happens after you sign for the package.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:00:50 AM EDT
I think you should get one of each and report back on which is best.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:02:24 AM EDT
You can legally own one.

Provided you don't own an AR15.

Or provided its a legal one and you pay the $200 transfer fee on it.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:04:03 AM EDT
I dont know the ad you are talking about, but, if it was in circulation before 86, then it is legally transferable, and if it is new, than it can be purchased and installed by anyone licensed to do so.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:06:57 AM EDT
THIS IS A BATF STING that has been going on for YEARS

There are no legally transferable Pre 86 drop in sears PERIOD
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:08:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 8:09:07 AM EDT by Gloftoe]
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:14:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
THIS IS A BATF STING that has been going on for YEARS

There are no legally transferable Pre 86 drop in sears PERIOD




I guess mine is illegal then?

He's referring to the "pre '81" stuff; the (completely bogus) idea is that if it was made before the ATF started registering DIASs then it's legal. It ain't.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:32:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 8:32:19 AM EDT by rob78]

Originally Posted By pigmy:
I think you should get one of each and report back on which is best.



+1


I don't know anyone who's bought one yet so your write up would be my sole source of information.

my understanding is that one of the sellers was in business, but was involved in an ATF sting (in Michigan maybe?) and got nabbed.

If you can reach them on the phone, buy one. We'll enjoy the report and throw you a party in a decade or so
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:34:17 AM EDT
Cragius, who do YOU work for????????? Hmm, Sept 2005, 26 posts. . . . just enough for us to think. . . NAHHH!!!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:43:06 AM EDT
yeah ive seen those, iseen that they changed to adress to to michagian address, the p.o. box in previous issues of SGN used to be sent to virginia where the BATF homw headquarters is.
lol
dont buy 1
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:52:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 1:06:39 PM EDT by pigmy]
If the ads do not say "Registered Drop in Autosear," RDIAS, and require a $200 transfer fee through a class 3 NFA dealer, then leave them alone and do not think about them again. The purchase price will be in thousands of dollars as well.
The bottom line is that the autosear or auto-disconnector itself MAY be legal, depending on the date it was made (though it is often impossible to tell). HOWEVER, you still can not install one (or own an AR) as it requires all the other M16 parts and that would be creating a machine gun illegally. Read - Club Fed. RDIAS's are legal as they are registered as a machine gun.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 12:55:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:29:17 PM EDT
Yeah, I always laugh at those ads! $105 for a DIAS... Can you say "ATF!"

I don't even think those are legal to own if you DON'T own an AR-15. The aparatus by itself is probably enough evidence for "intent to manufacture."
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:08:03 PM EDT
This thread smells like bacon
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:24:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mag162:



+1 Howdy Mr or Mrs BATF agent
PWNED
And a quick question while I have your ear, why does it take so long to process a C&R liscence?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:35:15 PM EDT
If I remember the ad correctly, isn't the SGN DIAS COD only? If that is the case, I can almost guess which letters of the alphabet will be in the delivering government agency's name when the COD DIAS arrives at one's house. Furthermore, I would bet good money that they will be armed with a search warrant too! Unregistered DIAS+AR-15 = being someone's "cute" cell mate for the next 10 years.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:35:53 PM EDT
Randy Weever's baby killing fuckers!!!!!!!!!

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:36:40 PM EDT
I got one of those ads sent to me in photo-copy form in a handwritten envelope Post-stamped in either Arlington or Alexandria VA once!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:40:55 PM EDT
Anyone ever wonder if anti-gunners put this shit in SGN to make us look bad?


Just a thought. I honestly don't think anyone is dumb enough to order one.


- BG
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:37:56 PM EDT

You can legally own one. Provided you don't own an AR15.



Same as owning a hacksaw, and a shotgun. Look out! Bill T.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:14:36 PM EDT
So back before 86 you could order DIAS out of magazine with no questions asked? How much did that cost? If I wasn't 1 year old I would have bought one.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:48:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James_Brown:
So back before 86 you could order DIAS out of magazine with no questions asked? How much did that cost? If I wasn't 1 year old I would have bought one.



You still had to pay the $200 transfer tax if you did not have a Class 3 SOT license.

I believe in 1986 they were going for less than $100.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:58:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LuvBUSHmaster:

Originally Posted By mag162:



+1 Howdy Mr or Mrs BATF agent
PWNED
And a quick question while I have your ear, why does it take so long to process a C&R liscence?



LOL, Thats a good one.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:23:30 PM EDT
Why does SGN allow these BATF entrapment ads in their mag?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:32:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:41:19 PM EDT
I worked on a case once where a fellow had a firearms conviction for exactly this situation! He ordered some drop in auto sears....you know the rest of the story!
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 12:18:50 AM EDT
If you posses an unregistered DIAS (Doesn't matter when it was made) and an AR then, in the eyes of the ATF, you intend to construct an unregistered machinegun which is the same as actually having constructed one. If the DIAS was manufactured after the ATF classified them as a machinegun conversion part then it, by itself, is enough to get you jail time. (Unless of course you are a manufacturer who has paid the SOT, then it's a post sample conversion part) I agree with all above in thinking it's an ATF entrapment. (Wait... they wouldn't do that. Would they?)
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 2:18:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:23:23 AM EDT
I don't know if they are an ATF sting or not, but if they are not, I would suspect that they keep a close eye on it anyway. These days at least. I actually know of someone who bought one many years ago. No one showed up to the door and he had a lot of fun with it until he was advised it was illegal, at which point it was destroyed. Like I said, that was a long time ago, long before 9/11. I really, really wish I knew in 1986 what I know now. I'd have bought as many of them as I could have. Oh well, we all wish we had 20/20 hindsight.
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:48:54 AM EDT
FWIW, the current opinion of th ATF is these sears are machine guns all by themselves. Does not matter when they were made, registered or not. They are machine guns. Here is an ad from 70s SGN before they were ruled MGs, and you could buy them OTC (still had to register your gun, etc.).

Link Posted: 3/31/2006 5:56:22 AM EDT
What happened to special agent Cragius?

I was kind of curious as to how many (normally) law-abiding firearms owners you guys nab with this shit...
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 6:02:57 AM EDT
Its not bad enough you harrass law-abiding citizens, kick our doors, grope our wives and kill our puppys.....but do you HAVE to go jailing stupid people too? Jesus
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 6:12:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
FWIW, the current opinion of th ATF is these sears are machine guns all by themselves. Does not matter when they were made, registered or not. They are machine guns. Here is an ad from 70s SGN before they were ruled MGs, and you could buy them OTC (still had to register your gun, etc.).

tradecraft.us/Firearms/ReadWeep/SAC-DIAS.jpg



jeez, it's you're

You'd think they'd have an editor look for those things.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:22:57 PM EDT
i remeber these thing at the bottom after the mailing address said " TPF" in bold lettters
i think that means "to prison fast!!"

lol
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:36:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James_Brown:
So back before 86 you could order DIAS out of magazine with no questions asked? How much did that cost? If I wasn't 1 year old I would have bought one.



Pre-1981 you could order them out of mags.
Prior to 1981, most "conversion" kits were not classified as MGs in and of themselves.
Later, ATF would rule that conversion kits like LL, DIAS, Glock Switches and the T17 (M1 Carbine) were themselves MGs.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 7:37:11 PM EDT
Cragius
Member
Joined :: September 2005
Post Number :: 26

MD, USA


No one is bothered by the fact, or even seems to notice that the guy who started this thread, like most others that start these threads about DIAS's, have very low post counts, and appears to be from the Washington, DC area?

Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:19:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:20:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:22:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 12:30:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
FWIW, the current opinion of th ATF is these sears are machine guns all by themselves. Does not matter when they were made, registered or not. They are machine guns. Here is an ad from 70s SGN before they were ruled MGs, and you could buy them OTC (still had to register your gun, etc.).

tradecraft.us/Firearms/ReadWeep/SAC-DIAS.jpg




The Pre-81 sears are grandfathered in, not machineguns, the same thing post 81 is a machinegun. SGN adds are selling pre-81 grandfathered sears.



Bullshit. The ATF doesn't "grandfather in" what it determines to be a machine gun. If you're right, and I'm wrong, so be it. But if I'm right, and you're wrong, your careless statement could land some trusting idiot in prison.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 4:51:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Geohans:
Cragius, who do YOU work for????????? Hmm, Sept 2005, 26 posts. . . . just enough for us to think. . . NAHHH!!!



Evening

Actually I came over from AK-47.net. I always liked the AK for its simplicity, but Darn it all, everything on the AR just fits right. Easy magazine ejection, lighter weight, and GOD there are alot of accessories out there!

Still not sure if I would use an AR for my SHTF rifle but for a range toy....Heck Yeah!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:49:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 6:06:27 AM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By jwise:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:

Originally Posted By RenegadeX:
FWIW, the current opinion of th ATF is these sears are machine guns all by themselves. Does not matter when they were made, registered or not. They are machine guns. Here is an ad from 70s SGN before they were ruled MGs, and you could buy them OTC (still had to register your gun, etc.).

tradecraft.us/Firearms/ReadWeep/SAC-DIAS.jpg




The Pre-81 sears are grandfathered in, not machineguns, the same thing post 81 is a machinegun. SGN adds are selling pre-81 grandfathered sears.



Bullshit. The ATF doesn't "grandfather in" what it determines to be a machine gun. If you're right, and I'm wrong, so be it. But if I'm right, and you're wrong, your careless statement could land some trusting idiot in prison.



The sears come with a letter from the ATF stating their legallity. You are in fact WRONG. I have read the letter that comes with one have you? Ther is even an ATF letter which states this. AND IT STATES YOU CAN OWN ONE IF YOU OWN AN AR15 WITH SEMI AUTO PARTS. That is CAN as in not illegal to own and own AR15 at same time.
Top Top