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Posted: 3/20/2006 1:44:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 1:59:42 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]
It annoys me to no end the hoops you have to jump through to get a govt profile barrel , but hbars are not problem everybody and their dog offers hbars

went looking for a govt 20" I found one no prob but i had to wade though 10x as many f"ing hbars

I guess its because 1 less machining operation for a habr ?

I find a hbar gun to be unwieldy

anyone else agree?
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:50:10 PM EDT
My first AR was a H-bar. I still love it but it is kinda heavy but its a Colt 1/7 HBAR.
I have toyed with the idea of having ADCO turning it down to govt profile but for now I like it the way it is.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:52:11 PM EDT
Agree? Yep!
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:54:40 PM EDT
Hbars are teh suxxo4.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 1:57:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:03:30 PM EDT
have a 16" hbar as well. I used to think it was great until I added a light, a cco and a rail sys... Then it started to get uncomfortable.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:08:13 PM EDT
My 14.7ish hbar shoots just fine

But like the 14.5 LMT alot better
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:11:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
It annoys me to no end the hoops you have to jump through to get a govt profile barrel , but hbars are not problem everybody and their dog offers hbars

went looking for a govt 20" I found one no prob but i had to wade though 10x as many f"ing hbars

I guess its because 1 less machining operation for a habr ?

I find a hbar gun to be unwieldy

anyone else agree?



Yes
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:19:25 PM EDT
I’ll go one better. I don’t like the .750 barrel diameter at all. The AR is supposed to be a light rifle and it don’t make no sense to go weighting it down with a heavy barrel. And there just aren’t that many .625 options out there anymore.

But yea, a Government profile feels much better to me than an HBAR. I can live with the little extra muzzle weight if I have to.

If someone has a particular need for the HBAR then more power to them. Competition shooters and varmit hunters might have a use for one. But I don’t see why it’s the new standard.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:22:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:


anyone else agree?




Completely agree
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:50:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:

Competition shooters and varmit hunters might have a use for one. But I don’t see why it’s the new standard.



yep
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:54:50 PM EDT
Is anybody here complaining about the hbar yet you have a safe full of "M4s" or is everybody runnig the 16 and 20in pencil barrels? I like the gov profile yet it doesn't make any sense to me. I understand the history of going from the A1 to A2 but for the average shooter why isn't everybody using "pencils" if lighter is always better? I have a 6721 that I think is a great compromise and I just got a 14.5" socom barrel and if that's too heavy I'm in big trouble....

I think an HBar makes more sense than a .gov profile and an A1 makes more sense than both of them if you are concerned with weight....
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 2:58:15 PM EDT
Not at all.
They are not for me, but some like them.
Whatever floats your boat.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:05:28 PM EDT
two words.........grow stronger
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:08:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 3:09:49 PM EDT by BallisticTip]
I like them.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:08:57 PM EDT
Agreed. Don't care much for 20" HBAR's. Much prefer the gov profile..............
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:09:39 PM EDT
Wow... another HBAR thread.... How Imaginative.... I was just thinking,,, we have not had one for nearly 2 weeks....
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:23:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Harv24:
Wow... another HBAR thread.... How Imaginative.... I was just thinking,,, we have not had one for nearly 2 weeks....



yep you are correct I did not see the last one

I posted mostly because I was digusted as it seems to be the standard
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:30:09 PM EDT
My serious ARs are govt/pencil's but my real beater that get knocked around in tractor cabs is an HBAR.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:30:40 PM EDT
+1 Hbars are teh suxxo4

I'll take "Bushmaster Lightweight Barrel" for $215 Alex.....
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:31:47 PM EDT
What REAL benefit does an HBAR have?

None.

I like pencil weight barrels for blasters. A lot. Sadly, I can't get them in midlength, so other profiles will have to do.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:36:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
+1 Hbars are teh suxxo4

I'll take "Bushmaster Lightweight Barrel" for $215 Alex.....



Ill play! (Actually its a colt 1/7bbl, but what the hell...)

Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:57:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRA0211:
two words.........grow stronger



Ah yes, I was waiting for this idiotic type of reply to surface. Why should I waste my hard earned money on weapons systems that could easily be lighter with almost no loss of performance for my type of use. i.e. HD, range, hunting etc... I'll tell you what, put some weights in your pants and walk around with 'em for the rest of your life. Don't like it? Well, then I guess you just have to "grow stronger"
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 3:59:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/20/2006 4:05:33 PM EDT by IAMLEGEND]
I have an HBAR and a superlight. The superlight is obviously lighter and handier but the HBAR isn't that bad. It has advantages I guess.
They each do.

ETA: I prefer the superlight and HBAR to the "M4" profile.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:00:47 PM EDT
-HBAR all the way
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:01:37 PM EDT
I think they have their place, but I do not like how the HBAR is the standard in the AR market.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:07:42 PM EDT
When referring to 20"ers, I never understood why everyone said "Oh, get a gov't profile and you'll have no time for an HBAR. They suck."

I had a 20" HBAR and mounted a Surefire on the fore-end. Since it was an A2 upper, if I wanted to add an optic (I like Aimpoints) it'd have to be on a goose-neck over the already too heavy fore-arm. What a tank!

I recently got a 20" gov't profile Bushy and man, what a difference. I can actually believe a soldier or marine wouldn't die from just lugging the thing around. Now I still don't understand why they thought lengthening the stock when they upgraded to the A2 would be a good idea.

Hate is a strong word for an inanimate object but they SUCK to beat the band.

Scott
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:14:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SamColt:
Is anybody here complaining about the hbar yet you have a safe full of "M4s" or is everybody runnig the 16 and 20in pencil barrels? I like the gov profile yet it doesn't make any sense to me. I understand the history of going from the A1 to A2 but for the average shooter why isn't everybody using "pencils" if lighter is always better? I have a 6721 that I think is a great compromise and I just got a 14.5" socom barrel and if that's too heavy I'm in big trouble....

I think an HBar makes more sense than a .gov profile and an A1 makes more sense than both of them if you are concerned with weight....



The military changed from the pencil barreled A1 to the tapered A2 barrel because some troops in Vietnam would use their barrel as a kind of crow bar but the thin A1 barrel would tend to bend or even break. So the military then went with the tapered A2 which is more resistant to bending.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:19:47 PM EDT
With all the crap the people put on their flat tops it beats the shit out of me how HBARs are always on the receiving end of the shit stick..the new H&K steel mags 4 ounces more than aluminum..the new SOCCOM heavier than M4 profile 5 ounces more..is 1 lb extra on the barrel make a difference...I say yes if you shoot alot and dont adhere to the 15 RPM rate of fire..HBARs can take the heat better than lighter barrels..I have both and love my HBARs...The guy who started this thread how much do you hang on your rifle or is it just plane A2?..hell an M203 adds like 4 lbs extra...weight is really not an issue if it were the M14 wouldnt still be in use.I think HBARs balance better nad take the ehat better although longer to cool down.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:21:31 PM EDT
Tyler, I don't know how to find the post, but Colonel Lutz, AKA Coldblue at AR15.com, was involved in the devlopment of the M16A2. He said that initial reports that barrels were bending were false. They DID make a heavier barrel so that they would resist bending, but on later inspection they found that the actual issue was burs on the gas port that stopped their inspection tools, not a bend in the barrel. At that point it was too late to cancel the specification.

I don't use my barrel like a crowbar, so I don't need a heavy barrel.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:33:52 PM EDT
Actually, I have been searching for months for a nice Colt 20" HBAR, chrome lined barrel with 1in7 twist.

Haven't found one yet that wasn't overpriced or shot out. Someone out there must like them.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:44:36 PM EDT
I prefer government profile barrels myself.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 4:58:25 PM EDT
Each has their place. My wife didn't like the HBAR because she wanted something identical to her issue weapon. I want to build a precision shooter, so I'm going to put the HBAR on a scoped flat-top with free float.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:00:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pun:
With all the crap the people put on their flat tops it beats the shit out of me how HBARs are always on the receiving end of the shit stick..the new H&K steel mags 4 ounces more than aluminum..the new SOCCOM heavier than M4 profile 5 ounces more..is 1 lb extra on the barrel make a difference...I say yes if you shoot alot and dont adhere to the 15 RPM rate of fire..HBARs can take the heat better than lighter barrels..I have both and love my HBARs...The guy who started this thread how much do you hang on your rifle or is it just plane A2?..hell an M203 adds like 4 lbs extra...weight is really not an issue if it were the M14 wouldnt still be in use.I think HBARs balance better nad take the ehat better although longer to cool down.



You are right… But all that crap is optional extras that you can decide not to get. If someone wants to load a light rifle up with ten pounds of gear that’s their business. But I don’t want that weight permanently attached to my rifle.

(Mine is a Colt AR-15 Sporter Lightweight 16” with a pencil barrel.)

A .308 pretty much has to be a heavy rifle and I’m willing to trade off the weight for the extra power. But if a rifle weighs as much as a .308 it ought to shoot .308 and not 5.56mm.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:26:58 PM EDT
If were talking correct Nomenclature.... the Use of the term
"'Pencil " barrel ranks right up there with calling a magazine a "clip" .....

The correct term is Standard Profile for the M16/A1 and Government Profile for the A2/A3/A4 and M-4 profile for the M4/M4A1 And SOCOM HBAR......

When you say "Pencil Barrel" it's like fingernails on a chalk board and makes you sound like a tard.......

There is no such thing a a pencil barrel... it is not in any TM or Manual or specification and is a ARFCOM made up term.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:29:46 PM EDT
No. I really like HBAR's. Charles the Gunsmith.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:30:42 PM EDT
I never understood the desire for heavier barrels, 16's do fine for 99 percent of what I need. Extra weight doesn't make sense. Too heavy is unpleasant.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:40:28 PM EDT
Whiners! Give me a HBAR or Bull any day.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 5:43:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:09:36 PM EDT
With a 16", I think HBar's are just fine. I'll never buy a 20" HBar though.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:18:44 PM EDT
I hate'em with a passion.

I remember when HBARs were all you could get w/o having to pay an extra $150 for additional machining refinishing. If you wanted an A2 you were screwed. All the gun manufacturers were propping up the HBAR bandwagon to fill their pockets with that extra cash for additional machining. No, I'm not bitter about it.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:32:06 PM EDT
what's funny is that if gov't profiles were the norm, HBars would be the big rage...
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:34:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
what's funny is that if gov't profiles were the norm, HBars would be the big rage...



Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:39:10 PM EDT
All you HBAR haters are a buch of wusses

I love my HBAR carbine. I don't mind the extra weight of the HBAR; in fact, I like it that way. I have been lugging machine guns all my military career (first the M60, then the M249), so I can deal with heavy weapons.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:43:47 PM EDT
Both have their uses. I've never seen a bench shooter or a DCM/CMP shooter use a pencil barrel. There are times when the wieght is better, and that's when HBAR is supperior. Practical shooting is a good bit easier if you have a lighter gun, and the fact that it's a little harder to hold steady doesn't matter because the ranges are fairly short and you're not being scored on where your shots hit. In other words, as the tradition goes, GET BOTH!
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:46:27 PM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:54:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thinman:
Whiners! Give me a HBAR or Bull any day.



+1
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 6:56:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Harv24:
If were talking correct Nomenclature.... the Use of the term
"'Pencil " barrel ranks right up there with calling a magazine a "clip" .....

The correct term is Standard Profile for the M16/A1 and Government Profile for the A2/A3/A4 and M-4 profile for the M4/M4A1 And SOCOM HBAR......

When you say "Pencil Barrel" it's like fingernails on a chalk board and makes you sound like a tard.......

There is no such thing a a pencil barrel... it is not in any TM or Manual or specification and is a ARFCOM made up term.



Well Mr. Inadvertent CAPS Nobody is talking aBout correct Nomenclature from what I can tell. And I dont see the "manuals" using the term hbar all that much either.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:47:30 PM EDT



The military changed from the pencil barreled A1 to the tapered A2 barrel because some troops in Vietnam would use their barrel as a kind of crow bar but the thin A1 barrel would tend to bend or even break. So the military then went with the tapered A2 which is more resistant to bending.


Not quite...it was the branch catcher prong flash hider that was used to twist the wires on C-rat
cases to break them open...that bent the light barrels..

All the brass did was switch over to the bird cages and that ended...except for the poor newby schmuck
who had an older branch catcher...his just got appropriated and bent...and yep watching tracers
out of a warped barrel is kinda humerous..even the M60s got hot enough for that if their barrels
weren't changed out fast enough.

Seen it with my own eyes too....
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 7:53:38 PM EDT
You people who are telling us how you have to carry an 25lb MG around so you can handle an HBAR are completely missing the point of this arguement.

A MG has to be heavy to withstand it's role.

An HBAR barrel is unesesary extra weight.

By your guys' logic, you would be fine if someone tied a few bricks to you MG.
Link Posted: 3/20/2006 8:13:15 PM EDT
I wanted the best of both worlds so I got a Fluted Hbar !( 16' )

Invisiblesoul
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