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Posted: 2/4/2006 7:25:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 11:13:17 AM EDT by 223Rem]
This was the email I received from RRA today.


We do not have any product here called a "DEA upper", however we do polish the feed at the edge of the upper receiver during building to remove any edge between the upper receiver and barrel extension, and to ensure more positive feeding.



Never again will I buy a RRA product. They completely skirted the issue. Never addressed the pic either.


Not my idea if M4 Feedramps

Until today I never fully inspected the New RRA DEA Upper I purchased last December from a dealer on this board. Not mentioning any names, so do not ask becuase I do not know who's doing this was. Certainly was not mine! As you can see the upper has not been fired.

Has anyone else received a new RRA upper recently which has questionable feedramps. My investigation will start will RRA since they were the manufacturer.

Hell, the day was pretty damn gloomy to start with the rain and all, but I did not need this.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:33:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:35:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 7:36:29 AM EDT by RED_5]

Originally Posted By 223Rem:
www.hunt101.com/img/373463.JPG

Not my idea if M4 Feedramps....



+1

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=191733
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:36:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 223Rem:
www.hunt101.com/img/373463.JPG
Not my idea if M4 Feedramps

Until today I never fully inspected the New RRA DEA Upper I purchased last December from a dealer on this board. Not mentioning any names, so do not ask becuase I do not know who's doing this was. Certainly was not mine! As you can see the upper has not been fired.

Has anyone else received a new RRA upper recently which has questionable feedramps. My investigation will start will RRA since they were the manufacturer.

Hell, the day was pretty damn gloomy to start with the nrain and all, but I did not need this.



My RRA doesnt look like that. Call RRA and get it sorted
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:38:41 AM EDT
I brought an A2 RRA upper receiver last year that is similar to yours. Mine was done a bit better than that though.

Danny
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:38:58 AM EDT
My question would be "WHY?"

if the M4 ramps are an engineering enhancement to reliability, why the heck not do it right?



That's an embarrassment for someone.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:43:35 AM EDT
If the gun works, I really dont see that it matters, but thats just me. Im more concerned with function, then I am "Mil-Spec".
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:44:24 AM EDT
Being that sloppy, it almost looks filed, not Dremeled...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:56:09 AM EDT
My RRA doesn't look anything like that and I wouldn't have bought it if it did. I would be suprised and disappointed to find out that a rifle left their factory looking like that.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:56:19 AM EDT
Looks more like a high speed polish that took some finish off. Doesn't appear that much metal was removed.

My advice...FWIW...shoot it and if it works then be happy. Doesn't look so bad anyways.

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:56:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
If the gun works, I really dont see that it matters, but thats just me. Im more concerned with function, then I am "Mil-Spec".


You and me both.

Some need Kool Aid by the gallon, though.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:01:22 AM EDT
The feed ramp of my DPMS Panther looks like that, even if the carving is done a little bit better:



If it'd be my upper, and if it works fine, I wouldn't be too worried


- Ice

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:01:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 12:51:09 PM EDT by 223Rem]

Originally Posted By patrol120:
If the gun works, I really dont see that it matters, but thats just me. Im more concerned with function, then I am "Mil-Spec".



Do not know if the upper functions 100% as I have not shot it yet. Not going to find out until I hear from RRA. I can not believe RRA would let an upper leave the factory in this kind of condition. My brother's 4 year old could do a better job. And who said anything about mil-spec, that is not the issue. The issue is sub-par workmanship.

The pic does not even do the work hack justice. It's rough to the touch. If you drag a q-tip down the ramps it gets hung up. On all my other uppers this does not happen. Since the tracks have been laid and if RRA does not see an issue with, then I will finish the job correctly and then KG coat that area for added corrosion/wear resistence.

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:05:19 AM EDT
There's no reason for this BS. It's hack job work, plain and simple. Damn, the ramps aren't even necessary. I'd not be happy, either. Why take a perfectly good barrel and receiver and hack it up, risking bad operations and your reputation. I'll never understand why RRA does this, rather than getting the proper equipment.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:05:54 AM EDT
BEEN DISCUSSED AT LENGTH

FEED RAMP INFO !!!!! www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=191733
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:16:20 AM EDT
And I know some guys who have chainsaws in the back of their pick-ups that call themselves General Contractors
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:18:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:18:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
BEEN DISCUSSED AT LENGTH

FEED RAMP INFO !!!!! www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=191733



Chill. Everybody knows that. Needed or not, why risk operation and reputation.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:42:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:
And I know some guys who have chainsaws in the back of their pick-ups that call themselves General Contractors



Those are the same guys that hack the RRA feedramps...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:49:52 AM EDT
You've been here since 2002 and don't remember the HUGE wars back and forth between dremel and actual M4 feedramps?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 8:53:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:
They are all like that.



Whew, I'm sure glad I never bought one of their M4 uppers...

In the past Ive only used RRA lowers and lower parts and never had any reasons to complain about those parts... I will never recommend for anyone to buy one of their uppers with feed ramps...

I do know one thing though, Ive never ever encountered butchery with any of my COLT parts...


Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:30:54 AM EDT
My very first AR was built with an RRA complete upper. It has the dremel marks, BUT, the only thing they really do is look ugly. My upper has seen thousands of rounds without problem even when I dont clean it for nearly 1000 rounds of Wolf at a time.

I will continue to refer people to RRA as they do make a good product. But I agree they should just quit with the dremeled "ramps", its not neccessary.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:37:00 AM EDT
That doesn't look like any RRA factory work I've ever seen. Looks like someones hack job to me.

Cheers,

Phil
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:46:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 10:46:50 AM EDT by theshootersden]
Notice the outlined area in red... The cut exceeded the width of the extensions ramp... A very bad juju...

Notice the outlined area in blue... It is a deep "burn" mark... Another bad juju... The butcher must of nodded out for a second there...



That is nothing but piss poor craftsmanship...

Ever hear mongo001 say "some monkey put together"? Well there you have it...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:53:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By props:
That doesn't look like any RRA factory work I've ever seen. Looks like someones hack job to me.

Cheers,

Phil



The fact that RRA chooses to do this as a normal practice invites hack job copies sold as RRA originals. Even some of the factory jobs looked iffy, at best. Like I said, operation and reputation are at stake with practices like this.

For me a properly machined CMT upper receiver will come every time, and cheaper for that matter, before any RRA upper receiver.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 10:54:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 11:00:06 AM EDT by Bushwacker85]
My RRA upper has a little bit of dremel work on the receiver, but at least it looks professional. The only thing that really gives away that they shouldn't be there is the fact the cuts in the receiver aren't anodized. Those pictured above look like shit.



ETA pics
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:02:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 11:04:15 AM EDT by Optik45]
I bought a brand new in the Box Bushmaster complete M4gery, and a couple months later I noticed Dremelled feed ramps. The cut in the Upper was done pretty well but the cut to the barrel ext was horrible. I sent it back to Bushmaster for inspection and apparently my BM Upper was originally going to be manufactured for a M16 or 3 shot Burst but then uppered with a commercial barrel and sold as a commercial rifle on accident. When the Gun Shop received the Rifle they noticed the feed ramps and the barrel ext overlapping so they cut the barrel ext down. Luckily it feeds with no problems. BM offered to replace the Upper but I decided to keep it due to its rare-ness.



Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:07:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 11:07:38 AM EDT by Bushwacker85]

Originally Posted By Optik45:
I bought a brand new in the Box Bushmaster complete M4gery, and a couple months later I noticed Dremelled feed ramps. The cut in the Upper was done pretty well but the cut to the barrel ext was horrible. I sent it back to Bushmaster for inspection and apparently my BM Upper was originally going to be manufactured for a M16 or 3 shot Burst but then uppered with a commercial barrel and sold as a commercial rifle on accident. When the Gun Shop received the Rifle they noticed the feed ramps and the barrel ext overlapping so they cut the barrel ext down. Luckily it feeds with no problems. BM offered to replace the Upper but I decided to keep it due to its rare-ness.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/HackJob.jpg

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/M4Ramps2copy.jpg



I remember that thread you made. So Bushmaster uses M4 feedramps on their FA guns?

ETA "M4 feed-canyons"
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:10:19 AM EDT
Well......my RRA upper has very small dremel marks. Needed or not, it still looks professionally done. Since you apparently bought this upper (not a complete RRA shipped rifle?) are you certain this upper is in fact a RRA manufactured item? Is it possible the individual you bought it from just advertised it as RRA? It could be an upper he built from parts. While it is possible that this upper came from the RRA facility, I have to say I have never seen their work displayed in such a manner.
hinking.gif
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:11:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 11:11:56 AM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By Optik45:
I bought a brand new in the Box Bushmaster complete M4gery, and a couple months later I noticed Dremelled feed ramps. The cut in the Upper was done pretty well but the cut to the barrel ext was horrible. I sent it back to Bushmaster for inspection and apparently my BM Upper was originally going to be manufactured for a M16 or 3 shot Burst but then uppered with a commercial barrel and sold as a commercial rifle on accident. When the Gun Shop received the Rifle they noticed the feed ramps and the barrel ext overlapping so they cut the barrel ext down. Luckily it feeds with no problems. BM offered to replace the Upper but I decided to keep it due to its rare-ness.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/HackJob.jpg

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/M4Ramps2copy.jpg



You concider that "rare-ness?



Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:18:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 11:19:17 AM EDT by Optik45]

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Optik45:
I bought a brand new in the Box Bushmaster complete M4gery, and a couple months later I noticed Dremelled feed ramps. The cut in the Upper was done pretty well but the cut to the barrel ext was horrible. I sent it back to Bushmaster for inspection and apparently my BM Upper was originally going to be manufactured for a M16 or 3 shot Burst but then uppered with a commercial barrel and sold as a commercial rifle on accident. When the Gun Shop received the Rifle they noticed the feed ramps and the barrel ext overlapping so they cut the barrel ext down. Luckily it feeds with no problems. BM offered to replace the Upper but I decided to keep it due to its rare-ness.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/HackJob.jpg

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/M4Ramps2copy.jpg



You concider that "rare-ness?








How many people do you know that has a Direct from BM Manufacturer M16 FA Upper? So yes Rare-Ness.

I never said its great work but I've got about 5000 rounds through it and not a single FTF, even with 30 yr old Colt mags.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:25:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Optik45:

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Optik45:
I bought a brand new in the Box Bushmaster complete M4gery, and a couple months later I noticed Dremelled feed ramps. The cut in the Upper was done pretty well but the cut to the barrel ext was horrible. I sent it back to Bushmaster for inspection and apparently my BM Upper was originally going to be manufactured for a M16 or 3 shot Burst but then uppered with a commercial barrel and sold as a commercial rifle on accident. When the Gun Shop received the Rifle they noticed the feed ramps and the barrel ext overlapping so they cut the barrel ext down. Luckily it feeds with no problems. BM offered to replace the Upper but I decided to keep it due to its rare-ness.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/HackJob.jpg

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/M4Ramps2copy.jpg



You concider that "rare-ness?








How many people do you know that has a Direct from BM Manufacturer M16 FA Upper? So yes Rare-Ness.

I never said its great work but I've got about 5000 rounds through it and not a single FTF, even with 30 yr old Colt mags.



Wait a minute, I have a few Bushmaster uppers here... Maybe I'll dremel some M4 canyons on them and sell'em as rare uppers?

Im sorry for saying it that way but I cant see what makes it so special... The way I look at it, its only more piss poor craftsmanship...

But hey, if it makes YOU feel good about owning it, thats all that really matters...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:27:22 AM EDT
i have two rra m4 uppers that have the dremel jobs done to them from the factory.


and on the same not not a single one of my bushmaster's have the hack jobs done to them and i like them that way.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:41:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 11:42:24 AM EDT by Optik45]

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Optik45:

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Optik45:
I bought a brand new in the Box Bushmaster complete M4gery, and a couple months later I noticed Dremelled feed ramps. The cut in the Upper was done pretty well but the cut to the barrel ext was horrible. I sent it back to Bushmaster for inspection and apparently my BM Upper was originally going to be manufactured for a M16 or 3 shot Burst but then uppered with a commercial barrel and sold as a commercial rifle on accident. When the Gun Shop received the Rifle they noticed the feed ramps and the barrel ext overlapping so they cut the barrel ext down. Luckily it feeds with no problems. BM offered to replace the Upper but I decided to keep it due to its rare-ness.

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/HackJob.jpg

i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/Optik45/M4Ramps2copy.jpg



You concider that "rare-ness?








How many people do you know that has a Direct from BM Manufacturer M16 FA Upper? So yes Rare-Ness.

I never said its great work but I've got about 5000 rounds through it and not a single FTF, even with 30 yr old Colt mags.



Wait a minute, I have a few Bushmaster uppers here... Maybe I'll dremel some M4 canyons on them and sell'em as rare uppers?

Im sorry for saying it that way but I cant see what makes it so special... The way I look at it, its only more piss poor craftsmanship...

But hey, if it makes YOU feel good about owning it, thats all that really matters...




How is your analogy related in anyway to original BM FA Feed Ramps? Doesnt Matter, My rifle performs flawlessly. Im not going to piss and moan over a part that can be replaced for $80, what Im going to do is Man up and shoot the fuck out of it.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:44:44 AM EDT
That is bad juju...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:49:27 AM EDT
This is bad juju:

Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:11:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 1:12:11 PM EDT by 223Rem]

Originally Posted By Stickman:
You've been here since 2002 and don't remember the HUGE wars back and forth between dremel and actual M4 feedramps?



I remember seeing the thread, but do not rembering read it as none of my uppers at the time had M4 Feedramps. No interest for me. As of now, none of them have M4 feedramps.

When I bougth this New RRA Upper from a dealer on this board (for those people who did not catch it the first time), there was no mention of Mscrewed fukkedramps. This upper will probably function 100% for a decent amount of time, but that is not my main concern. Crappy workmanship is my complaint. With how badly these things (not sure what they are) were put in, there is nothing saying that down the road if the upper develops issues RRA will say they were not done by them. I just want RRA to know that if a problem does develop they can not just skate the issue. If RRA admits to doing the hack job, I will shoot the hell out of the upper as long as they will waranty any repairs required due to their fudging the goods.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:28:33 PM EDT
Second rate work. Some people don't mind. Astounding. Sabre Defence cuts look clean and correct to me. It's the first thing I checked when it arrived.

GL
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:37:28 PM EDT
Non-spec cuts kind of marry the barrel to the upper...

Unless you want to keep hacking on them with a dremel,
replace one, you might need to replace the other...

don't ask me how I know.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 1:46:40 PM EDT
If the man bought an upper that was advertised as having M4 cuts, then by golly thats what he should get.

And if the quality of those cuts or any other part is in question due to OBVIOUS crappy attention to detail (ie- lacking quality) then he should also expect to have that addressed.

the example I see at the begining of this thread tells me it was done before mounting the bbl and a shitty job at that. Factory cuts are properly finished, not shitty looking like a bunch of monkeys did it!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:17:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 223Rem:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
You've been here since 2002 and don't remember the HUGE wars back and forth between dremel and actual M4 feedramps?



I remember seeing the thread, but do not rembering read it as none of my uppers at the time had M4 Feedramps. No interest for me. As of now, none of them have M4 feedramps.

When I bougth this New RRA Upper from a dealer on this board (for those people who did not catch it the first time), there was no mention of Mscrewed fukkedramps. This upper will probably function 100% for a decent amount of time, but that is not my main concern. Crappy workmanship is my complaint. With how badly these things (not sure what they are) were put in, there is nothing saying that down the road if the upper develops issues RRA will say they were not done by them. I just want RRA to know that if a problem does develop they can not just skate the issue. If RRA admits to doing the hack job, I will shoot the hell out of the upper as long as they will waranty any repairs required due to their fudging the goods.



223REM,

I would talk to RRA. When I noticed my Bushmaster like that I had them inspect it and verified that the Cuts on the Upper were done by them but they didnt do the barrel Ext. I have email documentation that if it developes any issues in the future they will warrantee it. Thats all that matters to me (as it feeds flawlessly). I would talk to RRA and see if they can go the same route with your upper. If you are truly concerned have them replace it.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:31:45 PM EDT
Sure, from a craftsmanship standpoint its not good, careful work, but its not like its on the outside where you see it every time you open the safe, either. I'll bet the gun feeds flawlessly. After a few thousand rounds, it'll probably blend in pretty good.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 2:44:41 PM EDT
223Rem,

This has gone on and off for awhile. Please update us when you get ahold of them, it will b einteresting to see what they say.

Good luck, I wouldn't be real happy either.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:17:20 PM EDT
Sure that bushy is rare. It's rare in the same way a double headed quarter is. I'd keep it too.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:20:04 PM EDT
Most importantly...Does it work?!?!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 3:38:26 PM EDT
I just looked at my RRA M4 upper I got from Pete-in-NH. It's the one with a 15" barrel and permanently attached FS.

It has a normal ramps. It wasn't advertised at having M4 ramps and it works great. I’m very happy with it.

You might want to call RRA and tell them your not happy. Maybe they can make it good.


_____________________



Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:46:37 PM EDT
that hack job cant be factory. looks like a file cut, and not a round one.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:10:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Optik45:
This is bad juju:

images.snapfish.com/345429%3B923232%7Ffp7%3Enu%3D323%3B%3E465%3E2­%3A6%3EWSNRCG%3D3232%3C%3A694%3A%3B95nu0mrj



damn... I hope that was a photoshop...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:20:09 PM EDT
No photoshop man. MisterPx and photoman were thrashing an AR with some clone optic on it.

I like it.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:31:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 12:23:21 PM EDT by JosephR]
So that's how photoman tests those clones? What a moron. He acts like he's very professional with his testing. What some people won't do to try and "prove" that their clones are worthy. Throwing a rifle 30 feet into the air? Why do that to the poor rifle? That's not right one bit!!!

I'm getting sick of this "who cares what it looks like- shoot it!" attitude. When you get a product like an upper that has obviously been abused somewhere along the way, you have to be stupid to accept it in any condition less than "great." Perfect isn't always necessary, but "hacked up" certainly isn't good enough.

This "be a man and shoot it" is ridiculous. Be a man and demand the problem get taken care of is the attitude you should have. Not act like a kit too happy to have a gun in his hand to care about how it was made. Take the time and send it back. You can wait another week or two.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:37:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:
Notice the outlined area in red... The cut exceeded the width of the extensions ramp... A very bad juju...

Notice the outlined area in blue... It is a deep "burn" mark... Another bad juju... The butcher must of nodded out for a second there...

www.uploadx.com/content/whiterabbit490/373463.jpg
...



I didnt notic the burn mark the first time. Yeah that is shitty, talk to RRA about that one.
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