Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 1/29/2006 7:47:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:05:27 PM EDT by Stlkid]
Im thinking about putting together my own AR rather than buying a whole one. Ive added up most of the numbers besides tax and the transfer fee other than that almost every time ive added it up its always come up cheaper than a whole rifle. Is this because the people at the factory dont have to assemble it? does anybody know?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:48:58 PM EDT
Not once you add in the tools for assembly.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:50:42 PM EDT
lets say if you buy a already assembled lower minus the stock and already assembled upper
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:51:11 PM EDT
Depends on what you want. It's possible to build a very expensive AR.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:51:52 PM EDT
The folks at that factory are paid wages and benefits to assemble. A do-it-yourselfer does it for free.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:52:26 PM EDT
Ok lets say a mil spec AR something like a standard A2 20 inch
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:56:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:02:19 PM EDT by JohnTheTexican]
For one thing, there's an 11% federal excise tax on long guns, but the tax applies only to firearms, not parts. If you buy a complete rifle, 11% of the sale price is for the federal excise tax. If you build it yourself, you only pay the excise tax on the lower receiver. So on a $700 Bushmaster, $77 is federal tax. If you build it yourself on a $100 stripped lower, only $11 goes to the feds.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 7:58:39 PM EDT
Its cheaper, most of the time. I put together a 20" A3, it was my first build so I didn't really know what I was doing. It cost me about $720 total, including all transfer fees and shipping charges. I probably could have built it for about $100 less but I forgot to order some stuff and then had to pay more shipping.

As far as tools go, unless you plan to assemble your upper, you don't need a whole lot. Just a 3 oz. hammer, some punches and a screwdriver.

Nic
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:07:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 8:09:51 PM EDT by heavytank2]
Here goes my "half-assembled" build.

-- Stag-Arms A2 Lower $215 + S&H + FFL Fee About $245-250
-- CMT Upper $110
-- CMT E. Carrier Assbly. $125
-- Badger Ord/CMT Charging Handle $35

That is everything minus sights and barrel for $490, now, at this point you could pick whatever barrel you wanted. I am going middy, and the two prominent choices are.

-- River Rock Arms 1x9 chrome-lined $245 all said and done, gas-tube, guards, delta assembly, etc. (minus flash-hider)

At that point your at $735...


And you still need a barrel wrench and action block.
OR CMMG 1x7 chrome lined complete about $330 with all the stuff, total $820.

This is without a carrying handle or backup irons which is usually around $100.

So, $835 for 1x9 RRA barrel or $920 for CMMG barrel both with sight of your choice. That is without the required barrel wrench and action block. But you can save some bucks on the used forums if you linger around enough.


But still yet, most crazy ass shop around here.... you can't touch an AR for under $1000 unless its a post-ban thats made of now non-existant companies. Just the way indiana is.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:10:41 PM EDT
Ok thanks here is what i was planning.

Superior arms Complete lower with out stock
RRA complete A2 upper
and i have a A2 stock i can buy from a friend pretty cheap

For all that i get a price of $710 and thats assuming i pay 200 dollars for the lower after all the tax and transfer fees tot he ffl holder

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:13:52 PM EDT
lots of variables -

if you are patient and can wait nad dont mind using used gear - you can save a bunch.

but if you have to have it all ASAP and everything brand new - buy a rifle IMHO. You have a rifle that is GTG - and if you have problems it can go straight back to RRA or Colt or Armalite etc for warranty work.

just my $.02

I like to build 'em with old parts and used parts from the EE that I can clean up and put together - to me that's where the hobby aspect of building comes in.....
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:18:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Nic4433:
Its cheaper, most of the time. I put together a 20" A3, it was my first build so I didn't really know what I was doing. It cost me about $720 total, including all transfer fees and shipping charges. I probably could have built it for about $100 less but I forgot to order some stuff and then had to pay more shipping.

As far as tools go, unless you plan to assemble your upper, you don't need a whole lot. Just a 3 oz. hammer, some punches and a screwdriver.

Nic



+1

I've built 1 and rebuilt some others. Unless you buy a complete upper you will need the upper receiver vise block and armorers barrel wrench. For a stripped lower receiver some pin punches, needle-nose pliers, I also used a brass gunsmith hammer, etc.

You can save money, but you have to know ahead of time exactly what parts you are going to have to order. If you don't, shipping is going to kill you. If you build from scratch, check out the tacked instructions here on the sight. Following them, with no other help, I was able to build one. At one time I would think you would be able to get into a rifle for under $600.00 by building it yourself but haven't checked in a long time.

Another way is to buy a stripped lower at a gunshow, put it together. Watch the equipment exchange here for a good used upper with bolt, bolt carrier and charging handle and you may be able to get into an AR fairly cheap.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:18:39 PM EDT
I've built one with top quality parts for as little as $450.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:20:41 PM EDT
I do want a rifle to shoot and id like to assemble some parts over a short period of time but mainly im going for price here. Now i dont want anything fancy just a standard A2. Im going for whatever is cheapest to build but still high quality. Putting together a whole rifle piece by piece would be cheaper but after tools and shipping and handling its gets to be mroe expensive than it would be to jsut by a complete upper.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:44:36 PM EDT
If you shop around with the dealers here in the EE you can easily find.....

-Complete RRA upper=$430
-Complete RRA lower=$230
-BUIS=$70

Those are shipped prices, add $30 for FFL transfer for the lower and you've got a brand new complete rifle from a top of the line maker for $760.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:52:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
If you shop around with the dealers here in the EE you can easily find.....

-Complete RRA upper=$430
-Complete RRA lower=$230
-BUIS=$70

Those are shipped prices, add $30 for FFL transfer for the lower and you've got a brand new complete rifle from a top of the line maker for $760.



Is 30 dollars the usual price for a transfer?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:00:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 9:02:11 PM EDT by heavytank2]
Depends on your local shops.... they make no money with a transfer so sometimes its more or less. Unless you buddies with him, then its like $5. =)

Their lowest price at my shop was $25, I got $35 though because they knew it was an AR and I wouldn't be back for any more parts.




I like to build 'em with old parts and used parts from the EE that I can clean up and put together - to me that's where the hobby aspect of building comes in.....



That is where my 2nd and 3rd guns are coming from. But for my first rifle I needed it ASAP.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:02:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:
For one thing, there's an 11% federal excise tax on long guns, but the tax applies only to firearms, not parts. If you buy a complete rifle, 11% of the sale price is for the federal excise tax. If you build it yourself, you only pay the excise tax on the lower receiver. So on a $700 Bushmaster, $77 is federal tax. If you build it yourself on a $100 stripped lower, only $11 goes to the feds.



Where are you getting $100.00 Bushmaster lowers? I have about $6,000.00 I want to spend right now.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:02:36 PM EDT
It's a hell of a lot more fun

People may say it's not once you factor in the tools, but that assumes you'll only build one (not that you need that many tools - a chimp could assemble an AR from parts).
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:03:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 10:11:47 PM EDT by gordon_freeman]
BUILD IT!

I put together my second lower receiver in 30 minutes with no tools other than a screw driver. I used torx head screw drivers as punches as well... I guess CMT/Stag parts a much less obnoxious to work with than oly arms.

If you are assembling your upper as well, all you need is a action block, and it may just be better to get complete upper receivers.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:35:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:
For one thing, there's an 11% federal excise tax on long guns, but the tax applies only to firearms, not parts. If you buy a complete rifle, 11% of the sale price is for the federal excise tax. If you build it yourself, you only pay the excise tax on the lower receiver. So on a $700 Bushmaster, $77 is federal tax. If you build it yourself on a $100 stripped lower, only $11 goes to the feds.



Bingo.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:52:21 PM EDT
Ok thanks guys
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:09:08 PM EDT
i have yet to build a rifle with new parts that was cheaper than any factory rifle.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:13:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 3:18:55 PM EDT by Dorsai]

i have yet to build a rifle with new parts that was cheaper than any factory rifle.


I'm guessing you either upgraded considerably in your parts selection or need to go back to shopping 101

I have built 6 or 7 ARs in the last 10 years. Every one has been cheaper than the nearest equivalent factory rifle, even when the options I built were upgrades over the factory features.

My latest:
Like new Colt M4A2 complete upper. $500 shipped on the equipment exchange.
Stag lower with LPK $155 shipped
RRA buffer/tube/6pos stock Out of the parts bin
Transfer fee $15
Total $670
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:17:04 PM EDT
It's probably cheaper in the long run seeing as you can build the gun the way you want it the first time instead of replacing parts later down the line.

"If you buy the right stuff, it only hurts once"
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:46:04 PM EDT
If you aren't in a hurry, and aren't picky about you configuration, you can build an AR15 pretty cheap. Lightly used parts aren't a big deal, and you can get great buys on used and new items sometimes.

There are a handful of us around who have built some VERY cheap carbines and rifles around here.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:06:58 PM EDT
I can build them for ~$515 using quality parts.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:14:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glock223:
I can build them for ~$515 using quality parts.




I'm curious as to what parts you are using as you have listed a specific price, and mention "quality" parts.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:22:58 PM EDT
$453.00

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:43:06 PM EDT
You would be hard pressed to build one upper cheaper than you can buy a complete upper due to the cost of the wrench and action block. If you plan on doing multiple upper builds, putting it together yourself will always be cheaper. You could easily just buy a complete RRA upper for $400 and snap it together with a Stag stripped lower, LPK, and some used furniture for a total of $575. That doesn't require any tooling at all and you would save at least $150.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:50:34 PM EDT
You've somewhat made the point. Most people don't buy a separate upper and barrel and assemble them. Most builds are done with complete uppers. The "build" really only consists of installing a lower parts kit and a buttstock. Oh yeah. Attaching the upper to the lower.

Later, with experience, the wrench and receiver blocks make sense. It can be cheaper later on if you find a barrel for a good price to just replace a barrel and not the entire upper. Or, you may be able to pull a barrel and install a FF handguard for not much more than paying someone else to do it and you'll have the tools afterwards.

A truly economical build usually entails some compromise between getting what you want and waiting for it to show up at the right price.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:51:51 PM EDT
After you have built a couple and have all the tools then it can be cheaper if you only want one like a factory gun. I build mine because I cant get one from the factory the way I want it. And for all the guys who cry "only a factory gun can make it through a carbine course" you are obviously too dumb to assemble LEGO let alone a firearm. I have many rounds through my guns and no problems because I build them correctly.

It is not about the money, it is about watching someone elses factory gun break down in a course and you know how to fix it!!

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:55:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 4:58:08 PM EDT by eddiein1984]
Also, don't build something really expensive right away, since you will almost certainly discover that you like some other configuration better. Just build something basic and inexpensive (but using quality parts) and then figure out what you do and don't like. Other than for picking up your stripped receiver, avoid gun shops like the plague. Buy known quality parts from some of the places that have excellent feedback here (ADCO, Del-Ton, J&T, Bravo Company, etc).
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:11:57 PM EDT
Im going for a plain rifle. I doubt I will add much of anything to it, maybe a aimpoint or a scope. Im not a huge addons kinda guy. I like keeping things simple. The most i would add is a scope or aimpoint. I will probably keep just irons for a good while once its together to increase my marksman ship before moving up. Also im not trying to build a custom gun or anything just a standard at less cost.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:09:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 6:11:14 PM EDT by Stickman]

Originally Posted By triburst1:
$453.00

img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/glocker199/100_0246.jpg



Nice, but there are plenty of people here with weapons built far cheaper. The key is patience, and grabbing deals as soon as they come up.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:16:13 PM EDT
Tools NEVER factor into the cost of doing ANYTHING if you are a "real man".
If you factor in the cost of tools you might as well turn in your man card...


Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:25:00 PM EDT
Here is an example for ya:
Del-Ton rifle kit $455
www.del-ton.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=80
Stripped Stag lower $100
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=163&t=145317

So for around $555 you can have a AR with brand new parts.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:01:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Tools NEVER factor into the cost of doing ANYTHING if you are a "real man". he


Thanks! thats gonna save me atleast $50
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:06:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dorsai:

i have yet to build a rifle with new parts that was cheaper than any factory rifle.


I'm guessing you either upgraded considerably in your parts selection or need to go back to shopping 101

I have built 6 or 7 ARs in the last 10 years. Every one has been cheaper than the nearest equivalent factory rifle, even when the options I built were upgrades over the factory features.

My latest:
Like new Colt M4A2 complete upper. $500 shipped on the equipment exchange.
Stag lower with LPK $155 shipped
RRA buffer/tube/6pos stock Out of the parts bin
Transfer fee $15
Total $670




i like the finer things in life
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:07:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 9:07:50 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By glock223:
I can build them for ~$515 using quality parts.




I'm curious as to what parts you are using as you have listed a specific price, and mention "quality" parts.




+1, what is your defenition of "quality parts"?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:18:23 PM EDT
Using the RRA Dealer Catalog as a reference, you can buy the two complete halves, put together and push the pins in and you save almost $100. I believe I priced out a 20"er A3 and it was under $600 doing it this way. Since RRA flat-tops don't come with rear sights unless ordered that way, you have to buy one regardless.

Also, complete RRAs dont' come with much as far as accessories (no sling, no rear sight as stated before. All you get is a magazine, a catalog, and a manual), so you aren't missing out on anything. I believe if you order a complete Entry Tactical, for example, you do get a Hogue grip but that's the only "upgrade" you get for the factory pushing the pins together.

I was going to do this for a 9mm carbine but they weren't offering complete 9mm marked lowers at the time. I would have saved close to $100.

Just an example, I hope it helps,
Scott
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:00:16 PM EDT
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/12939000_0049_Car-15-med.jpg

I "built" this one for $455.00 w/new RRA lower and lightly used DPMS upper. $200.00 for the upper and $255.00 OTD for the lower. I was lucky to get the upper so cheap.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 11:08:15 PM EDT
Ive assembled about a dozen rifles using new, used, and spare parts.

The cheapest I was ever able to do it (buying the parts off the internet and getting the lowers dirt cheap here at Impact Guns) was for about 500 bucks. That was using an old used M16A1 upper (bought a used complete m16a1 upper for 250 bucks and cannabalized the upper, barrel is on my colt AR15A2 nowh


http://home.comcast.net/~canyonflyer/CAR15_1.jpg


Most of my Rock River arms and DPMS A2 builds have come to about 750 bucks, and my M4 and A3 builds have come to about 850 bucks.

I figure Im not saving any money.
The cheapest build is the CAR-15 I have pictured, but the only "new" parts in that were the lower, lower parts, and barrel. the bolt carrier assembly.
I do enjoy the fact that I can assemble whatever I want to put on the rifle, and I really enjoy assembling a good looking rifle, and taking it to the range.

Another thing Ive noticed about AR builds is that if you use "cheap" parts, you get cheap results...

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:07:17 AM EDT
I've built a couple A2 20" rifles with new everything for under $600. Shop around for a kit with a preassembled upper then pick up a stripped lower on the EE. First one I ever built took about 1/2 hour using the instructions from this sight. I never had any prob's with them and they are both owned by friends now that shot the crap out of them
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:44:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 2:46:39 AM EDT by Blanco_Diablo]


Spent around $600 on that Colt SP1. I got very lucky and got an EXTREMELY good (IMO) deal on a VG condition SP1 upper w/ pistolgrip, stock, and charging handle for $160. Then I bought a bolt and bolt carrier for $100, Mega lower for $110, traded a Sten parts kit for the lower parts kit, then traded the Mega + $125 for the Colt SP1 lower.

Total price: about $565 unless I'm forgetting something. Refinishing is gonna be another $100 or so so in all I saved about $300-500 on a Colt SP1 by building it. It's not original but it's still an SP1.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:31:08 AM EDT
Can we get a bigger picture....
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:04:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SelectFire:
Here is an example for ya:
Del-Ton rifle kit $455
www.del-ton.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=80
Stripped Stag lower $100
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=163&t=145317

So for around $555 you can have a AR with brand new parts.



This is probably a dumb question but what is the difference between a chrome molly barrel and chrome lined barrel. Im pretty sure that chromed lined means it goes down the whole barrel but what does the chrome molly mean? Also does either have any real advantage over the other?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:10:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 7:13:36 PM EDT by SelectFire]
The chrome lined barrels came iinto existence as a way to lenthen the life of AUTOMATIC weapons fire as the barrel heats up very quickly. In long shooting situations it does add the the life of the barrel by reducing the erosion at the point of detonation.

There really is no advantage to a chrome lined barrel if it is to be shot by the casuall shooter. The major advantage that chrome-lined barrels offer is longer-barrel life and easier maintenance.

Regular chrome-moly barrels won't last as long but generally are more accurate (assuming they were made well to begin with).
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:14:20 PM EDT
Chrome-moly barrels have a higher percentage of chromium(?) added to the molten iron that the steel barrels are made from, I believe.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:27:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Tools NEVER factor into the cost of doing ANYTHING if you are a "real man".
If you factor in the cost of tools you might as well turn in your man card...





That's why I haven't bothered to keep track of what I've been spending on the vertical mill and tooling. Why should I keep spending $100 or so for each stripped lower, when I'll be able to buy unmachined ones for $20 each?

Top Top