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Posted: 1/24/2006 5:32:13 PM EDT
Forgive my newbie ignorance, but WTF is it for? I got my first AR, the 2005 SEBR (thanks Ed!) and am playing catch up as far as AR knowledge....
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 5:40:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GotGuns:
Forgive my newbie ignorance, but WTF is it for? I got my first AR, the 2005 SEBR (thanks Ed!) and am playing catch up as far as AR knowledge....

To make sure the bolt is all the way forward. Out of habit I hit mine everytime I load a magazine
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:05:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:16:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:27:41 PM EDT
Never been in the military etc, but every time I used the forward-assist on an AR15, I pull the trigger and it goes click(?) instead of bang, I have a heck of time trying unchamber the round. If I ever have a choice to rquire the use the forward-assist, I would eject the offending round and investigate it later.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:29:07 PM EDT
You only need it, if you shoot Wolf.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:31:45 PM EDT
if I chamber a round and I am trying to be sneaky (ie I ride the bolt home) I will give the forword assist a push...
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 6:35:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 7:59:06 PM EDT
I have a nice gouge in the side of a round from that. It came out ok, but it looks ugly.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:09:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
i1.tinypic.com/mjq1l0.jpg

I have still seen more questions ref. DPMS than this one
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:10:16 PM EDT
The Immediate Action that I have been taught does not involve the use of the forward assist. Its one of those things that most people in most places will never need. Even combatants don't use them very often. They have some use, however.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:11:26 PM EDT
Actually, the original M16 did not have the fwd asst. It was added later at the request of the Army OVER the objections of the designers. The designers intended a bad round to be ejected, not jammed into the chamber.

The fwd asst can help to seat the round when the mechanism is very dirty and dry, preventing smooth movement of the bolt carrier.

It can help when trying to chamber a round very quietly, after riding the charging handle to ease a round into the chamber.

Most of the time you will never need it. The less you use it, the better.
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 8:12:15 PM EDT
Better to have it & not need it vs needing it & not having one.

Unless it just a range rifle.

TG
Link Posted: 1/24/2006 10:28:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/24/2006 11:14:03 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Thumb pressure only with hand still partially on the grip. NEVER STRIKE IT WITH THE PALM OF YOUR HAND UNLESS YOU WANT TO JAM YOUR RIFLE SO TIGHT THAT IT WILL REQUIRE AN ARMORER TO CLEAR IT. If thumb pressure won't close it, don't force it. Cycle the weapon and try a fresh round.

The proper use of the forward assist is like spices. A little can be good, too much can ruin things.



Sorry, no disrespect intended, but I gotta call BS on this. Way BS. Massive BS. The Mother of ALL BS.

Palm of the hand has been taught for many years. I have done it with dozens of M16s over 8 years in the Infantry. So did all my fellow Infantrymen. AFAIK it is STILL taugt in BRM in BCT and AIT and IOBC. Have NEVER seen a malfunction related to tapping the forward assist with the palm, this is the approved method. That's because it works. If you are being shot at you will not take the time look and see if your weapon is fouled. You will insert a new mag, let the bolt slam home, tap the FA once or twice, to make sure it is battery,acquire your target and send copper coated lead where it needs to go in an expedient manner.

PFC Miller (Silver Star) Found out quickly in An Nassiriya that the forward assist is not a useless apendage, even if your weapon is so fouled that it becomes a manual action rifle. He had to close the bolt manually with the FA every time, but still killed enough Iraqis in the mortar pit to save several of his comrades. Can you say with 100% certainty that your weapon will never become as fouled as his when you need it? I can't.

A thumb on the FA? Give me a freaking break. Might as well thumb your nose.
Not near enough pressure if you have sand or carbon fouling preventing the bolt from going into battery.

It's not an airsoft rifle. I have never seen a swift, firm tap with the palm on the FA ever cause a problem. If you don't want to use it, fine, but harbor no illusions about it's fragility.

Where did you get this from? Certainly not in the Army or any serious training facility. Maybe at Barbie M16 school.

Just as hokey as the myth that you should not let you bolt slam home for fear of damaging something. That is the way it was designed to function.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I have never heard anything so ridiculous.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 4:37:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 4:41:30 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 5:39:13 AM EDT
3 years in the Infantry... palm of hand works.
never had a problem.

owned civie ARs since 1996. Palm of hand works. Yes, even on Wolf ammo. Never had a problem.

if you don't want the FA, DPMS and Fulton Armory makes slick side uppers.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:51:29 AM EDT
After years in the infantry, I can say for certain that the FA works, even hitting it with the palm of the hand. Yes, if some jackass puts a bent round in and jams the FA for 20 min, that's going to cause some problems. However, throughout a tour in Afghanistan and during my current tour in Iraq, I've seen the FA used to good effect to 1) quietly chamber a round after riding the charging handle forward, 2) chamber a round out of crappy mags or with a worn buffer spring (in a combat situation sometimes you need that round NOW), 3) chamber a round out of a mag loaded fully w/30 rounds in a dry rifle (some places the sand is so talc-like that you need to run your rifle pretty close to dry during storm season).
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 8:58:22 AM EDT
2005 SEBR rocks bithces!!!!

<--- 1st AR too. It ownz. The 14.5" with 1:7 is pure tits. I love this damn Carbine. Damn trigger is just dandy too, also no hum in the buffer spring, only thing shitty about the Carbine is the finish. LOUSY. Scratches like a bitch too. It's all good though. In time after it's scratched all to hell, a DuraCoat job on the barrel will make her look good as new.

Also being my 1st AR, got to find things about the system that demand fast resolution. The charging handle. PRI Big Latch = a must. Hogue grip with MagPul guard = match made in heaven.

What's that? PICTURE TIME!? WOOT!

Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:12:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mfingar:
You only need it, if you shoot Wolf. hippie.gif


I have shot a lot of wolf through mine and never had to use it
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 9:31:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/25/2006 9:35:46 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

[/Sorry, no disrespect intended, but I gotta call BS on this. Way BS. Massive BS. The Mother of ALL BS.

Palm of the hand has been taught for many years. I have done it with dozens of M16s over 8 years in the Infantry. So did all my fellow Infantrymen. AFAIK it is STILL taugt in BRM in BCT and AIT and IOBC. Have NEVER seen a malfunction related to tapping the forward assist with the palm, this is the approved method. That's because it works. If you are being shot at you will not take the time look and see if your weapon is fouled. You will insert a new mag, let the bolt slam home, tap the FA once or twice, to make sure it is battery,acquire your target and send copper coated lead where it needs to go in an expedient manner.



You are referring to making sure the first round is seated. You were simply lucky that no one tried to force a defective round at one time or another, of course it won't cause a problem on a perfect round.

Tell me, have you ever seen an M-16 rendered inoperable because someone forced the forward assist on a defective round? I have and that is no BS. I was an Armorer for three years so I have seen the use and abuse of the forward assist. When you have to bang on one rifle for 10 minutes to clear it one, you will change your tune.

Bottom line, If the weapon is functional, thumb pressure is quite enought to TAP the forward assist. Striking it with your palm provides enough force to JAM a bad round, tapping it with your thumb does not. If thumb pressure is not sufficient to close the action, you should pull the charging handle and try again.

Besides, it is now considered poor weapons handling to remove your strong side hand from the grip. Not to mention that the 10-8 set do not even teach the use of the forward assist......I wonder why?


It's not an airsoft rifle. I have never seen a swift, firm tap with the palm on the FA ever cause a problem. If you don't want to use it, fine, but harbor no illusions about it's fragility.



Has nothing to do with fragility, has plenty to do with not rendering your rifle a jammed up club. Thumb pressure alone will not mal-seat a defective round to the point you cannot pogo it out.



Well we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I'll stand by my military training and experience on this. I was responsible for the Armory for an Infantry Rifle Company when I was XO, and spent a lot of time with my armorer NCOs, they taught me a lot. We saw very few issues caused by the forward assist. We always taught palm of the hand. Always. First I have heard of using the thumb. I guess whatever works for you.
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:06:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:
i1.tinypic.com/mjq1l0.jpg



So when does Johnny tell me what I've won?

Basically it is a good idea to tap it but if I need to slam it, I should just chamber another round? That sound about right?
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:37:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Actually, the original M16 did not have the fwd asst. It was added later at the request of the Army OVER the objections of the designers. The designers intended a bad round to be ejected, not jammed into the chamber.

The fwd asst can help to seat the round when the mechanism is very dirty and dry, preventing smooth movement of the bolt carrier.

It can help when trying to chamber a round very quietly, after riding the charging handle to ease a round into the chamber.
Most of the time you will never need it. The less you use it, the better.



You can always force the rifle forward, as if thrusting with a bayonet. It will close the bolt the last 1/4". Only really relevant on SP-1's or any other slickside upper. I would rather have the option of the forward assist though...
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 6:38:27 PM EDT
I'm new to this forum and I too am building my first AR. I never really knew what the FA was for either until reading this thread, although I assumed it had something to do with assisting the bolt/carrier. I played a FPS a while back and one of the weapons was the AR-15. I beleive it was a Datadyne complete with forward assist that you could actually slam with your palm any time you wanted with the push of a button...I just pressed it all the time because it looked cool, never had a jam!h.gif Of course, video games have always been known for their accurate depictions of reality. -Dev
Link Posted: 1/25/2006 7:00:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chris72983:

Originally Posted By mfingar:
You only need it, if you shoot Wolf.


I have shot a lot of wolf through mine and never had to use it



not again ... IBTL
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