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Posted: 1/19/2006 8:30:22 AM EDT
I've read several comments in a couple of threads about lower receivers getting "worn out".

I assumed this meant the rifle was used and abused so much that parts don't fit right and the rifle becomes unreliable or dangerous. The only remedy suggested was to send the receiver back to the manufacturer for a replacement.

Do lowers get worn out or am I just another dumb nubee?
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:33:51 AM EDT
It CAN happen, but it is rare. Mostly the holes get egged out. Lots of wear can be saved by using special pins that don't rotate.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:37:59 AM EDT
oil the lower and your lower will last 10s of thousands of rounds, using the regular pins.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:34:05 AM EDT
Thanks for your help.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:38:49 AM EDT
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:50:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By demigod:
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.



...but they just look so damn cool.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:02:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 8:02:29 AM EDT by chris157c]

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
...but they just look so damn cool.



+1
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:08:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 8:10:11 AM EDT by gmtmaster]

Originally Posted By demigod:
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.



Absolutely wrong.



Ill tell you what is nonsense.... Not paying attention to something that is 70.00, that could potentially protect my 11K lower.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:43:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By demigod:
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.



Absolutely wrong.



Ill tell you what is nonsense.... Not paying attention to something that is 70.00, that could potentially protect my 11K lower.



You have a lower worth eleven thousand dollars? This I have to see a picture of!

Or is it that you own eleven thousand lowers?

And why is it that the Armed Forces are still using Viet Nam era lowers to update to M16A2 and M4 types. with no "enlarged hole" issues. Or my 1978 built, class 3d, SP1 Colt with somewhere between 9 and 10 thousand rounds thru it shows no "enlarged holes"?

Look, you want to spend money on something, it's a free country and you have a perfect right to do so. But for pete's sake stop scaring the new guys w/horror stories that are far more fantasy than reality.

But then why do I have a hunch that you got scared by a fantasy when you were a new guy.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 8:50:56 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:09:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By demigod:
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.



Absolutely wrong.



Ill tell you what is nonsense.... Not paying attention to something that is 70.00, that could potentially protect my 11K lower.



You must also have everything Magpul makes too!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:17:22 AM EDT
who here has over 150,000 rnds through their lower? 9 or 10k isnt even enough to wear out the barrel, let alone the lower.

I wouldn't buy the pins for a regular AR15, but for a RR like gmtmaster has it would be cheap insurance. I know I am getting them for my RR Colt A1.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:16:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 10:20:37 AM EDT by EPOCH96]

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By demigod:
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.



Absolutely wrong.



Ill tell you what is nonsense.... Not paying attention to something that is 70.00, that could potentially protect my 11K lower.



You have a lower worth eleven thousand dollars? This I have to see a picture of!



I'd be willing bet he's talking about something that is registered and envolved a Form 4

But if you would like to see some lower recievers that cost $$$ as in thousands, here ya go...

bring your wallet
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:48:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2006 10:57:48 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Shamayim...


You have a lower worth eleven thousand dollars? This I have to see a picture of!
Or is it that you own eleven thousand lowers?



C'mon bro... you have been around here long enough to know that registered receivers can run in excess of $10K. Why are you feigning ignorance???

And yes... if I were lucky enough to own a RR I would be using KNS anti-walk/anti-rotation pins as well. Cheap insurance IMO.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 2:35:10 PM EDT
Coming from a 2 stroke motorcycle background I am pretty O/C about lube so my pins get a drop of CLP on every cleaning.

rj
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:19:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By demigod:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By demigod:
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.



Absolutely wrong.



Ill tell you what is nonsense.... Not paying attention to something that is 70.00, that could potentially protect my 11K lower.



You must also have everything Magpul makes too!



Nope... not a thing from them...;
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 4:59:03 PM EDT
My local range has a rental M16 with a half a million round count.
Since the owner began renting it in 1987 the gun has averaged 500 rounds a week.
It is a form-4 registered receiver Colt with a 14.5" barrel, finish worn away all over but cool looking in a nostalgic kind of way, like a rifle that came out of a 100-year war.

The pin holes are just fine, none of the egging people talk about... It must show up after a million rounds I guess...

The rifle shoots perfectly and he never had any serious problems, just things getting stuck when the rifle went without cleaning for too long.

I've begged him to sell the rifle to me but he won't let it go, he said it's made him well over $100k in rental profits over 20 years and he will keep renting it until it quits... so far it is not showing signs of that.

Now how many of you expect to shoot an average of 500 rounds a week for 20 years?
I'd say the non-rotating pins are a solution to a problem that does not exist.

Maybe I should invent an anti-kaboom harness that wraps around the lower for added structural support, I bet if I make it look cool people will buy it...

NO-K
"Protect your rifle from harmful k-booms"

Man, I can already see the dough rolling in.

Link Posted: 1/20/2006 5:52:17 PM EDT
dudes
these guns last alot longer than most think. believe me.....
no need for all these silly gimicks. but if it makes ya's feel better, i guess youall buy it anyway.
man, i need to invent some stuff also.....

plus all these dudes that worry about wearin their toys out aint shootin enough anyway.

shoot em up hard...
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:25:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSOG1:
dudes
these guns last alot longer than most think. believe me.....
no need for all these silly gimicks. but if it makes ya's feel better, i guess youall buy it anyway.
man, i need to invent some stuff also.....

plus all these dudes that worry about wearin their toys out aint shootin enough anyway.

shoot em up hard...



+1
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:31:25 PM EDT
Although I don't own any of the "anti-walk" pins, I have considered buying a few sets because they do look cool as all hell. Reason enough to own them. Best of all, I won't criticize you if your ARs don't have them.
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 7:45:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chris157c:

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
...but they just look so damn cool.



+1




That's good enough reason for me. Do you know where I can get them in Desert Brown?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 9:21:07 PM EDT
I wonder how many rounds the rifles that are getting the pin holes rewelded on have through them?
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 10:45:38 PM EDT
Last month I worked on 2 different Bushmasters, both had over 60,000 rounds through them, and they were still very tight. I think it will take user abuse or neglect to wear out a name brand lower.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:23:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15:
I wonder how many rounds the rifles that are getting the pin holes rewelded on have through them?



Pin holes get worn or egged out when the pin breaks. This is not all that rare, especially on 9mm unramped-bolt rifles. For the most part an AR15 will continue to work with broken pins, so many times they will go undetected for a while. Pins break at the "groove" and start wobbling and enlarging the holes.

I have never heard of any KNS pins breaking, and although they are tubes instead of solid metal, most of the structural strength of a pin is on the outer layer, so the absence of a groove removes the weak point.

Personally I stick with high quality stock parts, they don't break either. Properly heat-treated pins are designed to hold up. In any case, I fiddle with my lower all the time and as a habit I always try to wiggle the hammer after a shoot to check for a broken pin, so it is not going to be a problem in my case.

Personally I do not like the looks of the "dogbone" on the side of my receiver nor the fact that I need two allen wrenches to take it down, but it is added insurance indeed, regardless of what I said on my previous post.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:24:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NYPatriot:
Shamayim...


You have a lower worth eleven thousand dollars? This I have to see a picture of!
Or is it that you own eleven thousand lowers?



C'mon bro... you have been around here long enough to know that registered receivers can run in excess of $10K. Why are you feigning ignorance???

And yes... if I were lucky enough to own a RR I would be using KNS anti-walk/anti-rotation pins as well. Cheap insurance IMO.



Actually, it didn't occur to me that he was writing about a class 3 piece. Since my own class 3d SP1 only cost me $250 to convert, plus the transfer tax; for about an $850 total investment, back in the late '70s, I just don't think of ARs of any stripe as being in the multi thousand dollar area

But then I'm the guy who bought a Thompson gun in 1968 for $260, INCLUDING the transfer tax, sold it for $1000 in 1989, PLUS the tax, and thought I was doing well. And what are they worth today?
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:51:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By demigod:
You must also have everything Magpul makes too!



Nope... not a thing from them...;



SWEET!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 5:53:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Although I don't own any of the "anti-walk" pins, I have considered buying a few sets because they do look cool as all hell. Reason enough to own them.



God I hope you're joking!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 6:22:37 AM EDT
Go to this site....www.isayeret.com.The israelis have 30 year old rifles still in service and rebuilt im sure many times.Cool is not a reason for antiwalk pins..they are to preserve wear on valuable registered M16s.Using those pins when they are not needed takes away from serviceability as far as speed goes in changing out FCG parts.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:03:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By demigod:

Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Although I don't own any of the "anti-walk" pins, I have considered buying a few sets because they do look cool as all hell. Reason enough to own them.



God I hope you're joking!



Why in the hell would you think I was joking??? There is nothing wrong with aesthetics you know. If you like the way something looks and it doesn't detract from function then get it. Like I said before... I won't give a shit if you DON'T have anti walk pins on your rifle. So why should you give a fuck if anybody else has them? I tend to mind my own business as far as what modifications guys have on their rifles. If they are happy, then God bless them. My opinion on your stuff doesn't matter unless you ask for it.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:38:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2006 7:54:07 AM EDT by Bubbaguns]
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By demigod:
Lower pin and hole damage can be caused by using an unramped 9mm bolt with an m16 hammer. In Regular AR configurations, lower wear is so friggin' negligible it's not even worth talking about.

Those specialty pins are nonsense. Don't waste your money.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Absolutely wrong.



Ill tell you what is nonsense.... Not paying attention to something that is 70.00, that could potentially protect my 11K lower.




How bout..... not shooting it? that would protect it too.


just playing, wish I had full auto!
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 4:15:52 PM EDT
HA- i shoot my m4 so much youd think its full auto......

no egging holes here...no broken pins either....

just lots of spent cases
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 7:17:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15:
I wonder how many rounds the rifles that are getting the pin holes rewelded on have through them?



One of the local ranges does endurance testing of accessories for the M4. The owner reported to me that they had difficulties with two rifles dropping the pins out during firing due to enlarged FCG holes after 160,000 rounds.

They would fire 7 30rd mag dumps back to back and then switch uppers and repeat the process.
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