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Posted: 1/18/2006 10:21:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/18/2006 10:23:01 AM EDT by Mihalich]
That (what calibre) You have returned preference, 5,56õ45/7,62õ39 or You (either as I ;)) consider that necessary half-way calibre that that like "6,5" to and return was at a rate of 223 and destructive power was at a rate of 7,62. But can such work are already, for instance 6,8SPC? Here is else accuracy was beside 6,8 as beside 223 was splendid
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:54:14 AM EDT
6.8 SPC imo would be the best (ballisticall) for a good mix of accuracy and energy downrange

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:10:11 PM EDT
is footyumpire running another joke thread here?


If you're serious, I think both the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are promising cartridges for the AR15/M16 platform. I'm awaiting more data from the 16" Grendel before I decide to put money into one.

Link Posted: 1/18/2006 12:26:16 PM EDT
I think someone is screwing around. There are like 5 threads on the first page started by people that absolutely cannot speak or write english.


- rem
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:39:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 2:44:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 4:13:54 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]
System: Mauser Model 98

Caliber: 8X57JS

Next question.............
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 3:28:05 PM EDT
I think the guy is sincere, and probably Russian, so his English isn't the best.

For my part, Mihalich, I'll say that you can find info and a forum on the 6.5 Grendel here: www.65grendel.com.

John
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:31:40 PM EDT
"Optimisty teaches english, pessimists chinese, realists choose AK" (c) off topic..
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:43:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 11:56:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Randall_Rausch:


I like this guy...





I like this guy.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 12:20:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By remedy:
I think someone is screwing around. There are like 5 threads on the first page started by people that absolutely cannot speak or write english.


- rem

Bear in mind that a lot of people for whom English is a second language tend to unconciously use the grammatical rules for their native language when speaking English.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:58:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zardoz:

Originally Posted By remedy:
I think someone is screwing around. There are like 5 threads on the first page started by people that absolutely cannot speak or write english.


- rem

Bear in mind that a lot of people for whom English is a second language tend to unconciously use the grammatical rules for their native language when speaking English.



The Reserved gentlemen! I long ago here was not, did not see discussion given themes. So happened we with the other yesterday saws beer hese
And apologize for its ugly english. The Translation "online translator" so such stupid mistakes..

On subject. Personally me to like both systems, about advantage which is already described plenty of. But I consider AR15 on step professional than any Kalashnikov. AK more approaches as weapon of the self-defense (as shotgun for instance, inexact but destructive and reliable) but for professional (rather then slave) to armies more approaches the more exact weapon on which possible any time put(deliver) the optometrist. But 90% all AK47 have a no planks with side for installing the sight. About than here possible else speak? I think that point in this problem will put(deliver) the calibre "6,5,6,7,8" with such high velocity either as beside 223, his(its) accuracy, and resistance to herb as beside 7,62. And weapon to choose and buy how do I seem it is necessary coming from that in what country you live if on arms cost(stand)s 223, it is necessary to have a weapon under it conversely.

Here is such my thoughts.. hy.gif
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:00:35 AM EDT
Me so horny, me love you long time...
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:26:57 AM EDT
Translators have a long way to go...

But I think I follow what you are saying.

My preference is the 6.8 SPC. It has flight ballistics similar to 7.62x51 (NATO) and shows good terminal ballistic performance in it's common loads (Remmingon 110gr OTM and Silver State 115gr TMJ) (the rounds yaw early then fragment violently). But as this round is expensive, I won't be shooting it as often as my 5.56 AR-15s.

I like the flight ballistics of the 6.5 Grendle, but what little has been shown of it's terminal ballistics the rounds currenlty yaw later than optimal.

However most of my shooting is still done with the 5.56 (either 55gr FMJ or 75gr OTM).
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 7:57:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 12:03:18 PM EDT by _DR]
I believe the latest 5.56mm cartridge, the Mk 262 77grain is enough of an improvement over the M855 in both accuracy, range and effectiveness at 300 yards that it negates the need for the development of a 6.8mm or larger cartridge for other than SOCOM, who can have anything they want anyway.

The Mk 262 has proved so effective that there is a good chance it will become the next standard issue munition for 5.56mm weapons for the regular armed forces. The USMC has been making noises about transitioning to the Mk 262 exclusively for their M16A4s.

The problem with 6.8mm SPC is it would require an upgrade of all Bolts, Barrels and magazines. While that may seem not like a lot, it could well approach the cost of the initial weapon system by the time you consider inventories of spares, upgrades and new defense contract needs. That is not even looking at the costs of the new ammunition procurement and distribution. DoD may not feel it is justified to spend millions on what is an aged (Though well proven) platform simply to accomodate a new caliber, when the Mk262 is performing so well. I don;t know that 6.8mm has ever benn considered for anyting more than the SOCOM community by the Pentagon.

So in that light the Mk 262 is looking very good.



(left photo) While a variety of projectiles were examined, in the end a Sierra 77-grain MatchKing was given the nod.
Left to right: Russian 152-grain 7.62x54R sniper, 122-grain 7.62x39, 52-grain 5.45, 77-grain Mk 262 Mod 1, 62-grain M855, 175-grain Sierra MatchKing.
(right photo) A look at how the Mk 262 Mod 1 is packed when a unit requests it on stripper clips. At right is M855 ball.




The Mk 262 Mod 0 (top left) progressed to Mod 1 with the addition of a cannelure and some other small changes.




Link Posted: 1/19/2006 8:32:12 AM EDT
Privet, and welcome to this board. I myself am a fairly new member. I speak a little russian also, if you need any help. Personally, I like the stats of the 6.8 spc, but honestly I have yet to do anything other than hold one.... Could someone post the link to ammo oracle as well? I can't think of the link off of the top of my head.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:28:16 PM EDT
The ideal calliber is inexpensive as well as effective. 6.8 and 6.5 are not inexpensive yet. Still prefer 5.56 75 grain ammo in the meantime.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 1:52:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 1:57:16 PM EDT by Randall_Rausch]
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 6:58:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 6:59:23 PM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Randall_Rausch:

Originally Posted By DevL:
The ideal calliber is inexpensive as well as effective. 6.8 and 6.5 are not inexpensive yet. Still prefer 5.56 75 grain ammo in the meantime.



I have not seen MK262 to be inexpensive either, maybe I am looking in the wrong places.



No it's expensive you are right. Not likely to be as cheap as XM193 until it starts until demand goes way down. Like 10 years. But consider that it is match quality ammo so the price may never go down.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:20:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kc8ard:
Privet, and welcome to this board. I myself am a fairly new member. I speak a little russian also, if you need any help.



Privet! )) Thank you if that that will incomprehensibly, I shall write h=85%

Originally Posted By _DR:
I believe the latest 5.56mm cartridge, the Mk 262 77grain



I seem twist 1:7 and 1:9 on any AR15 will little for 77gr

On experience of local our police bodies, the acquaintance of mine, can say that to shoot for instance from AKSU it is necessary only 55gr (standard 5,45õ39), at shooting 5,45õ39 69gr scatter will very big (accuracy very bad) on 50, 75, 100ì

Remain under its opinion, size has importance, 7,62õ39 PRESENTLY while the most predictable from all calibre assault rifle although he and not exact. What will come up for broad spreading 6,8SPC or that that like it, and if he will be real best on all feature, shall take second AR15 under this calibre without fall.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:42:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 9:44:03 PM EDT by TylerM_8]

Originally Posted By remedy:
I think someone is screwing around. There are like 5 threads on the first page started by people that absolutely cannot speak or write english.


- rem



Link Posted: 1/19/2006 9:53:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2006 9:55:00 PM EDT by DevL]

Originally Posted By Randall_Rausch:

Originally Posted By DevL:
The ideal calliber is inexpensive as well as effective. 6.8 and 6.5 are not inexpensive yet. Still prefer 5.56 75 grain ammo in the meantime.



I have not seen MK262 to be inexpensive either, maybe I am looking in the wrong places.
I was looking at Ammoman's site yesterday and it is $150 per 200 rounds for Federal 77gr Sierra BTHP ammo.

As an equal comparison, you can get SSA 6.8 SPC with a sierra BTHP for $160 per 200 from midway.
Not that far apart in price...

Even considering the ammo prices, there's no way any new chambering would ever get wide adoption.
Just too many logistical nightmares.



I get the 75 grain 5.56 TAP for $110 per 200 and I didnt have to spend the money on a new weapon to use the 75 grain stuff like i would with 6.8 SPC or 6.5 G. Also have the option of MUCH less expensive ball ammo for close range training and plinking.
Link Posted: 1/19/2006 11:58:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mihalich:

Originally Posted By kc8ard:
Privet, and welcome to this board. I myself am a fairly new member. I speak a little russian also, if you need any help.



Privet! )) Thank you if that that will incomprehensibly, I shall write


Originally Posted By _DR:
I believe the latest 5.56mm cartridge, the Mk 262 77grain



I seem twist 1:7 and 1:9 on any AR15 will little for 77gr

On experience of local our police bodies, the acquaintance of mine, can say that to shoot for instance from AKSU it is necessary only 55gr (standard 5,45õ39), at shooting 5,45õ39 69gr scatter will very big (accuracy very bad) on 50, 75, 100ì

Remain under its opinion, size has importance, 7,62õ39 PRESENTLY while the most predictable from all calibre assault rifle although he and not exact. What will come up for broad spreading 6,8SPC or that that like it, and if he will be real best on all feature, shall take second AR15 under this calibre without fall.



AKSU, котор я думаю имеет бочонок закрутки 1:9. То может объяснить почему оно имеет проблемы с более тяжелыми пулями зерна. Если вы хотите снять более тяжелые пули зерна в AKSU, то вы можете somthing как бочонок закрутки 1:7 stabelize пуля. Я реально люблю 5.45x39 потому что он неподвижно будет продолжаться обрушиться на далеких расстояниях. Если вы можете найти хорошего оружейника в России для того чтобы построить одно для вас, то они могут быть справедливые как точными как AR-15. Я думаю пуля 69gr 5.45x39 выполнила close to 223 77gr на большой дистанци дистанции. Я думаю что 223 более лучшее на близких расстояниях но 5.45 более лучшее на более больших дистанци дистанциях за 150 метрами. Я люблю мои винтовки Kalishnikov chambered к 5.45x39 потому что более лучшее чем 7.62x39 за 150 метрами. Я довольно имел бы винтовку выполняет хорошее на всех расстояниях вместо одного справедливого хорошего up to 200-300 метров.

Добро пожаловать! Понадейтесь мой перевод не ужасен!
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 12:13:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2006 12:58:31 AM EDT
I used different translators and the "drops less over a distance" was "attcks greater at range" and on another it said "invulnerable to drop at distance" or something like that. It had horrible grammer too. I think the guy is just using a text translator that is from Russia and thus why his grammer appears to suck.
Link Posted: 1/21/2006 12:48:39 AM EDT
To sum up: if you want the best performance within typical rifle range ranges in an M16, the 6.8mm Rem looks like the way to go. It's not necessarily so much better than the 5.56mm Mk 262 to be worth the change - if it weren't for the fact that the US is contemplating changing all of its 5.56mm weapons anyway, which provides a once-in-a-generation chance for a calibre rethink.

The 6.5mm Grendel becomes interesting if you're thinking of replacing the 7.62x51 as well, because it has a superior long-range performance so could do that job better than the 6.8mm. Terminal effects may not be as good as the 6.8mm so far, but that's probably a matter of bullet construction which could be resolved.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
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