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Posted: 1/1/2006 2:15:00 AM EDT
On an older thread, I saw how much difference an aftermarket flash hider made on barrels 16" and under.

But how important is it to reduce the flash?

Is the flash from an A2 flash hider on a 16'' barrel (or any length barrel) really strong enough to mess up your vision at night?

Will it also give away your position at night?

On a related matter, has anyone ever had a problem with the ends of aftermarket flash hiders snagging on objects?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:40:21 AM EDT
reducing flash: pretty important imo; muzzle flash is a PITA when shooting at night, for me, it takes a few extra seconds for my eyes to re-adjust for the next shot--bad if you need your AR at night
shoot some at night and see the difference for yourself

no--the A2 works pretty good, but the phantom and vortex work better

the flash will still give away your position (but so will the report--get a suppressor for best concealbility), but that is less important imo than protecting your night vision for subsequent follow up shots and target tracking

no, not me; but i have heard complaints about open end FH snagging on branches and such
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:27:44 AM EDT
If you are non-LEO / military and only use your AR as a plinker, aftermarket flash hiders are not that important.

<­img src=/images/smilies/anim_peep.gif border=0 align=middle>

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 4:47:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2006 7:54:32 AM EDT by txgp17]
Flash hiders should be banned.
On another note, since my range is closed at midnight dark, a flash hider won't do anything for me except make muzzle report louder, unless the SHTF. Oh, and my Bushy M4 has a Phantom, my Fabriquenstein has an A2.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:34:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By txgp17:
Flash hiders should be banned.
On another note, since my range is closed at midnight, a flash hider won't do anything for me except make muzzle report louder, unless the SHTF.



Banned? The range I go to is closed at midnight as well, but it is open until 9pm and it gets dark before 6pm this time of year. As for a flash supressor making the muzzle report louder, it really doesn't, but it does redirect some of the noise to the back, sides and above that would normally go more downrange, so it may seem louder. Even at that, an AR with a flash supressor is still a lot quieter than a lot of other rifles without them that people shoot at the range I go to. For example my Mosin Nagant M44 is waaaaay louder than my AR, and there are other rifles I've seen at the range that are louder than it. And at any rate, everyone at the range IS wearing proper hearing protection, right? If its too loud for comfort at the range then maybe its time to get some better protection or double up. I really like my Caldwell electronic muffs... I can still hear regular sound, but muzzle reports are reduced to comfortable levels.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:49:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
If you are non-LEO / military and only use your AR as a plinker, aftermarket flash hiders are not that important.




I would say that the only FS that I can recall seeing in service that was not a A2, is the OpsInc (and a few A1s here and there)... I would say that the biggest appeal of the non OEM products is the extra length that allows the non mil/leo to get the 14.5 barrel to 16"

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:37:32 AM EDT
Some of you lucky buggers in good states can hunt varmint after dark, so a good FH would be essential to a situation like that. especially if you are using NV. Other than that, I don't see much use for them at all, in you standard, every day range outing.

The standard line is - "It makes the libs mad."

1. 99.99% of libs don't know, or care, what a FH is.
2. Just owning a gun makes them mad.

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 1:58:35 PM EDT
So should I just see for myself if my rifle needs an aftermarket flash hider?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:11:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spork:
So should I just see for myself if my rifle needs an aftermarket flash hider?



How much nighttime shooting do you plan on doing?

Flash is a function of barrel length, ammo and flash hider. I would wait till you have all three an test shoot at night before trying to fix the problem.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:15:35 PM EDT
they help protect the muzzle if you were to drop it, or ding it on anything.

Just the other day mine got some mud/rock gunk on it, from a muddy jeep floor. (using jeep to drive to/from targets, ect.)
I'd much rather have crap on the FH than on the actual muzzle/crown.

YMMV
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:28:33 PM EDT
If you shoot at night YES they are important. If not it really doesn't matter. I have a Phantom but have never gotten to shoot in the dark.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:36:10 PM EDT
Can anyone else comment on the open ended design of flash hiders like the Vortex and some Phantoms snagging?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 2:44:00 PM EDT
they keep my crown from getting dings.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:51:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By YELLOWV:
If you shoot at night YES they are important. If not it really doesn't matter. I have a Phantom but have never gotten to shoot in the dark.



The Phantom isn't really open on the end, I'd call it crenelated maybe. I know I spelled that wrong. Go shoot in the dark and see if the standard A2 does the job or not.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:56:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NVGdude:

Originally Posted By YELLOWV:
If you shoot at night YES they are important. If not it really doesn't matter. I have a Phantom but have never gotten to shoot in the dark.



The Phantom isn't really open on the end, I'd call it crenelated maybe. I know I spelled that wrong. Go shoot in the dark and see if the standard A2 does the job or not.



Yikes! pretty fancy word there... I like baroque flash suppressors myself...
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:59:33 PM EDT
its one of the cheapest parts ya can get......

get a couple and try them all out.....
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:49:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NVGdude:

Originally Posted By YELLOWV:
If you shoot at night YES they are important. If not it really doesn't matter. I have a Phantom but have never gotten to shoot in the dark.



The Phantom isn't really open on the end, I'd call it crenelated maybe. I know I spelled that wrong. Go shoot in the dark and see if the standard A2 does the job or not.



I never said the Phantom was open at the end.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:48:04 PM EDT
If you'll never shoot at night, you don't need something like a Phantom.

But it looks BAD ASS.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:00:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:08:39 PM EDT
I have one M4 with a Phantom and one with a Vortec. No problems with snagging. Go ahead and put one on. There are no negative aspects to having one. YHM makes Phantoms with no serrations (or whatever you want to call them) so snagging wouldn't be a consideration at all...

TS
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:18:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 11:19:31 PM EDT by RyJones]
Here's a shot of me shooting my mini-30, which had no flashhider.

Those trees in the background weren't lit up by CCD bloom, either.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:32:39 PM EDT
I just saw a pic of a buddy at work shooting his 9.5" SBR with A2 flash hider. Major daytime fireball.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:41:16 PM EDT
So nobody has a problem with FHs snagging?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 11:43:11 PM EDT
if it snags yank or twist it, im sure whatever its snagged on it will get through it
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 12:10:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2006 12:11:26 AM EDT by Zardoz]
If you're not man enough to un-snag your weapon if the FS should catch on something (like this happens every day ), you need to sell it, and invest the resulting proceeds in a diverse selection of skirts.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:48:34 PM EDT
Thanks. I'll go with the 5C2.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:52:52 PM EDT
I've got a noob question here. What exactly is 'timing' and how does it apply to installing a FH like the Phantom?

TIA
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 3:59:02 PM EDT
I had to go with a Phantom f/s on my 14.5,but from what I've seen Vortex and phantom f/s reduces flash and dust signature better than most f/s.

TG

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:09:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:25:24 PM EDT
I shoot a lot in the dark and I shoot with night vision. I have spent a lot of dollars worth of aftermarket gear and add-ons. I don't see any reason to get anything to replace the A2 suppressor.

I've done side by side night fire tests with 100's of guns with all ammo available and every flash suppressor available, and I've done it a couple times a year for over 15 years. I personally don't see any advantage to after market flash suppressors.

In fact I prefer the A2 because it is superior to all others in the prone. the dust signature during the day from the others is much more of a difference than the difference between their night time flash reduction.

An A2 cage will do just fine at night and I have never been slowed down on a second shot because of flash from it. Funny thing the military uses it with night vision more every day than all other people combined in a year and they don't have any problem with NVGs and the A2.

Open prongs was shown to be a tactical disadvantage in something like 1966 and it still is a disadvantage today.

To be honest I actually do have something besides the A2 flash suppressor on my guns, the A2 flash suppressor from Gemtech. But even if I used a different suppressor like the Knights, Ops-inc, or Troy (my chioces besides the Gemtech) I would want an A2 style with closed bottom.

Link Posted: 1/4/2006 4:31:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eye_spy:
If you are non-LEO / military and only use your AR as a plinker, aftermarket flash hiders are not that important.



For use Non-leo/military people, I need my FH for Zombies and SHTF.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:22:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:
I shoot a lot in the dark and I shoot with night vision. I have spent a lot of dollars worth of aftermarket gear and add-ons. I don't see any reason to get anything to replace the A2 suppressor.

I've done side by side night fire tests with 100's of guns with all ammo available and every flash suppressor available, and I've done it a couple times a year for over 15 years. I personally don't see any advantage to after market flash suppressors.

In fact I prefer the A2 because it is superior to all others in the prone. the dust signature during the day from the others is much more of a difference than the difference between their night time flash reduction.

An A2 cage will do just fine at night and I have never been slowed down on a second shot because of flash from it. Funny thing the military uses it with night vision more every day than all other people combined in a year and they don't have any problem with NVGs and the A2.

Open prongs was shown to be a tactical disadvantage in something like 1966 and it still is a disadvantage today.

To be honest I actually do have something besides the A2 flash suppressor on my guns, the A2 flash suppressor from Gemtech. But even if I used a different suppressor like the Knights, Ops-inc, or Troy (my chioces besides the Gemtech) I would want an A2 style with closed bottom.




By no means am I questioning you, but I read elsewhere on ARFCOM that the closed bottom does not make a difference even in the prone position

FN Herstal uses an A1-ish birdcage for the PS90 flash suppressor.
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