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Posted: 12/31/2005 12:12:59 PM EDT
I am looking into buying a "Black Gun" for investment and of course, Fun Time! So I am looking for some experienced input.

1. Want a gun which will give equal or greater return on later sale if needed.
2. One that is disassembled without tools, easy maintenance, reliable.
3. Carbine w/16" barrel and collapsable stock (so my son can shoot it as well)
4. Detachable carry handle.
5. Best customer service if needed.

Is it wiser to purchase one with pre-ban features?
What are pre-ban features?

What is the best for the buck?

Mike
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:14:44 PM EDT
All the ones you listed are great rifles and you will get mixed reviews from the BRAND NAME GAME players.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:17:44 PM EDT
Well, these are what I have:

Bushmaster XM15-E2S A3 16" Patrolman's Rifle (bought last month)
Bushmaster XM15-E2S A4 20" HBAR (Traded in my Colt Match Target HBAR TODAY for it!)

So, I would say Bushmaster. I haven't had any problems with my old Colt (Other than the FSB was canted to the right just a tad), but I've just taken a shine to Bushmaster lately.

You'll be happy with whichever company you choose, don't get discouraged. Good luck and happy purchasing.

-Covert
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:18:11 PM EDT
All of the brands listed have their merits.

Bushmaster is a fine product
Colt, I love mine.
Armalite has some good stuff as well.
DPMS good to go.

Buy what you can afford.

My.02
Max
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:19:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 12:22:02 PM EDT by FALARAK]

Originally Posted By 1964:
I am looking into buying a "Black Gun" for investment and of course, Fun Time! So I am looking for some experienced input.

1. Want a gun which will give equal or greater return on later sale if needed.



Buy a machinegun then. AR prices have not really gone up in value much.... and used is always worth less. Of course - you wont lose a lot of money, but 10 to 20 percent is pretty common. The brand you buy wont make that much difference on resale... but Colt and Bushmasters are generally more valued across the wide population


2. One that is disassembled without tools, easy maintenance, reliable.
3. Carbine w/16" barrel and collapsable stock (so my son can shoot it as well)
4. Detachable carry handle.



All AR's are pretty much the same. Just pick the config you want. Brand doesnt change this.


5. Best customer service if needed.


Bushmaster, Armalite, and RRA have excellent reputations. I consider DPMS second tier. I wont even consider a Colt.


Is it wiser to purchase one with pre-ban features?
What are pre-ban features?



Sounds like you need to do some more reading up before you purchase. These are fairly easy to determine. There is no ban in free states, so there is no such thing as "preban features" anymore. Things that were considered preban features are threaded barrels, flash supressors, bayonet lugs, and collapsing stocks. Since you are looking at a carbine, yes, you want all of these.


What is the best for the buck?

Mike



Bushmaster, and RRA. But all are pretty damned good, and givent your criteria - wont make much difference at all.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:25:54 PM EDT
Gee, thats a broad question.

1. If you have the cash, buy a Colt LE rifle and be done with it. It is marginally better than the rest (prolly not worth the $400 extra, but it's your money)
Thats the only one I think that will have "equal or greater resale value."

2. all ARs break down the same. I don't know what you're asking. Define "reliable"

3. Carbine with 16 inch... carbine or mid length? some people will say mid length because of smoother cycling.

4. Flattop. okay.
Colt A3 carbine - www.colt.com/law/ar15a3.asp
Colt LE6290 - www.colt.com/law/lecarbine.asp
Start with those.

5. Best customer service... I can't comment. If I have a problem I fix it myself usually.

Pre ban features are thing like the requisite collapsanble stock, removable (re: threaded) flash hider, bayonet lug. You want pre-ban features.

Best for the buck? I suppose bushmaster is the best as far as price-features go.
Bushy A3 carbine www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa3f16.asp
Bushy M4 clone www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa3f16m4.asp

You may want to check out similar models from Rock River Arms. I have a Rock River upper and it seems fine to me.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:29:18 PM EDT
Invest in Hookers and Blow , you'll get a better return.

Buy a rifle to shoot.


Oh alright , since you're new and from my favorite state
I'll give you a REAL answer.


Do a lot of research here.
Buy only from a Large Retailer who specializes in ARs and similar rifles.
IF you MUST buy from a local shop - compare their prices with online dealers (dont get "took" )

Any ABC mfg rifle will serve you well and have decent resale value.

DONT buy extra bells and whistles until you have some experience with the basic rifle.

IMHO - a basic Flattop 16" is a better all around rifle than an M4 clone.

Living in PA - why would you NOT want a threaded muzzle and a collapsiblestock?
( Legally ,there is no such thing as a "preban" rifle in PA anymore )

­
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:32:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
IMHO - a basic Flattop 16" is a better all around rifle than an M4 clone.



Can you expound on this? A M4 clone IS a basic, flattop, 16". Unless you mean a "truer" M4gery with a 14.5" barrel, in which case, I agree with you.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 12:37:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
Invest in Hookers and Blow , you'll get a better return.

Buy a rifle to shoot.


Oh alright , since you're new and from my favorite state
I'll give you a REAL answer.


Do a lot of research here.
Buy only from a Large Retailer who specializes in ARs and similar rifles.
IF you MUST buy from a local shop - compare their prices with online dealers (dont get "took" )

Any ABC mfg rifle will serve you well and have decent resale value.

DONT buy extra bells and whistles until you have some experience with the basic rifle.

IMHO - a basic Flattop 16" is a better all around rifle than an M4 clone.

Living in PA - why would you NOT want a threaded muzzle and a collapsiblestock?
( Legally ,there is no such thing as a "preban" rifle in PA anymore )





Not sure where in PA this guy is, but is there any issues with Philly or Harrisburg? They are lib controlled, wasn't sure if they had any other laws.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 1:30:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 1:31:28 PM EDT by Hylton]
Bushmaster, Colt or RRA, Armalite makes a fine rifle as well.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:13:28 AM EDT
What is FSB?
When I say reliable I mean one that will be free of troubles. (manufacture problems)
What is the difference between:
Carbine and Mid-legnth?
Basic flat-top & M4?
What is lib controlled in Pa. mean?
What about barrel twist? It seems to me that most LE and GOV. guns have the 1-7 and all others have 1-9 or greater is this correct?
The 1-7 would be more sensitive with ammo choice correct?

FALARAK, how the hell do you get all the quotes into one reply?

Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:51:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1964:
I am looking into buying a "Black Gun" for investment and of course, Fun Time! So I am looking for some experienced input.




A new AR is not likely to have any particular "investment" potential.

If you want to use firearms for an investment purpose, you really need to buy full-auto NFA stuff, or rare variants of firearms - perhaps look for a NIB old Colt AR-15 rifle - and then put it in a safe and never fire it.


For the "fun" part, all of the major manufacturers should be fine. Personally, I'd go with Bushmaster or Rock River Arms
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:01:34 AM EDT
Colt
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:05:46 AM EDT
The FSB is the front sight block (on end of barrel)

NO man made (MFG) product is 100% guaranteed - just stick with Major Manufacturers

Carbine and midlength generally both have a 16" barrel - but on a midlength - the gas port
is farther from the chamber - this changes the gas pressure impulse during firing - so the
rifle cycles more "gently" (for lack of a better term)

Any AR can be had with a "flattop" ( rail on which to mount sights or carry handle)
The M4 "types" also have a barrel developed for the military (mainly to save weight and mount a grenade launcher)

Barrel twist is changed in order to stabilize different weights of bullets , but a 1x9 twist
will shoot most commercial and surplus ammo well.


Here are some links to info on Military versions of the AR (commercial versions are similar)

world.guns.ru/assault/as18-e.htm

world.guns.ru/assault/as50-e.htm

world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:37:47 AM EDT
Not sure where in PA this guy is, but is there any issues with Philly or Harrisburg? They are lib controlled, wasn't sure if they had any other laws.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only real problem, like anywhere else, is perception of the "assault" rifle style.
Harrisburgh and Philly have to follow state rules.

If there is going to be one issue it will be with CCW. Like our mayor said, there have been too many shootings in a short period of time. "So let's put a moratorium on CCWs."
Harrisburgh, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia used to try not to allow County issued (we do not have State issued CCW) and used to confiscate the handgun. Legally could never do it, occasionally might do it.

Every once in a while (usually when the NRA comes to state for convention) the state legislature tries to pass a " register of Assault Weapons). Fee based on paperwork cost for State Police division. Gets shot down so far.

Otherwise (speaking for myself) never had an issue here in PA when it came to Assault style weapons.

What I have seen is some manufactures like Springfield Armory ( I have a Socom 16) sales point of "not looking like an assault rifle.

For me and the better half, when travelling in the MH, carry a Ruger Mini-14 and the Socom so as not looking like assault rifle.Then comes the mag capacity/handgun issue.
Whew...............
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:56:44 AM EDT
Ok, getting some great information here and I do appreciate it. As far as investment, I guess I should have clarified this a little better. If I spend 1k for a new gun I know that if I decide to sell in a year I will take a small loss. If I can find a used one that someone bought through impulse or one that has not been shot much or well taken care of I will maintain the value if I decide to sell.
And of course I know it depends what models, year, etc...

To my friends in Pa. how can I find a Bushmaster dealer? And can you recommend any particular gun dealers or shops who deal in this type of gun?
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 10:58:30 AM EDT
does anyone know who actually makes DPMS receivers and or parts? LMT,CMT, etc.???
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:05:32 AM EDT
Where exactly are you in Pa???
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:06:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1964:
I am looking into buying a "Black Gun" for investment and of course, Fun Time! So I am looking for some experienced input.

1. Want a gun which will give equal or greater return on later sale if needed.
2. One that is disassembled without tools, easy maintenance, reliable.
3. Carbine w/16" barrel and collapsable stock (so my son can shoot it as well)
4. Detachable carry handle.
5. Best customer service if needed.

Is it wiser to purchase one with pre-ban features?
What are pre-ban features?

What is the best for the buck?

Mike


1. Colt.
2. Any of them.
3. Any of them.
4. Rock River Arms.

Aside from that, pretty much any of them will be perfect for an occasional plinker.

Pre ban features would be a flash hider, a bayonet lug, a collapsible stock, and the use of high capacity magazines. Of coures buy you should buy one in pre ban configuration, as the ban is dead and gone.

Last but not least, a brand new AR15 is probably not a very good investment. Firearms are tools and many of the newer ones lack the collectivity you seem to be looking for.
Link Posted: 1/4/2006 11:07:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TPD17:
does anyone know who actually makes DPMS receivers and or parts? LMT,CMT, etc.???


LAR was making the receivers for both them and Bushmaster the last I heard.
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