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Posted: 12/28/2005 5:04:18 PM EDT
Need help with all the expertise on this board. Been reading this board for about a month trying to narrow my search for an AR-15. I want a bushmaster but unsure of which one. I want one primarily for defense but would also like to have fun with it. Can't decide on the best model and/or barrel length. Any suggestions. This will round out my defensive weapons, SIG 220 for home, SIG 245 and glock 27 for carry, plus mossberg 500 cruiser for home.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:15:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 5:15:30 PM EDT by JustinOK34]
I think a Bushmaster 16" M4A3 (Patrolman's Carbine) would be a good choice. The flash hider isn't permanently attached. You have the flat-top, which will help when/if you choose to get optics. You can't beat the price either!

It's a great carbine.

Welcome to the site!
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:19:05 PM EDT
I am also looking to buy an AR-15 in about 6 months.

What is the preferred manufacturer(Bushmaster,Rock River
Arms,DPMS panther,Wilsons Combat, ect.)?

What options and accessories to look for?(flat top so you can mount things)?

Wilsons Combat says their Super Sniper is accurate to 400 yards, are they really that much better than the rest? They have a good reputation for their .45 pistols.

I like the look of the Close Quaters Combat style with the shorter(16") barrel, but I want the accuracy of the longer Stainless Steel barrels.

Also, it seems alot of the AR-15's come with permanent flash suppressor. Are there any that
you can buy with a threaded barrel? I want to eventually attach a class 3 suppressor.


Thanks, Frank
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:32:08 PM EDT
JustinOK34, thanks for the response. I was eyeing the patrolmans carbine, that and the dissipator carbine. Is one better than the other?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 5:35:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 5:35:28 PM EDT by Matt_B]

Originally Posted By FrankAR15:
What is the preferred manufacturer(Bushmaster,Rock River Arms,DPMS panther,Wilsons Combat, ect.)?

Bushmaster and RRA are the 2 most popular brands of the ones you listed. You should also add Colt and Stag Arms to that mix as well. You can go wrong if any of them. Stag Arms will give you the best bang for the buck.

What options and accessories to look for?(flat top so you can mount things)?
Yes, get a flat top with a BUIS (backup iron sight). I don't know your previous shooting experience but if you already know how to shoot, look into optics in the dedicated Optics forum here.

Wilsons Combat says their Super Sniper is accurate to 400 yards, are they really that much better than the rest? They have a good reputation for their .45 pistols.
Wilson makes nice stuff for sure but the real question is what do you want to do with an AR? If you really want a tack driver, there are a plethora of dealers here who can build you a custom tack driver for the same money or less. It should also be noted that Wilson states on their website that the Super Sniper is "precise" out to 500 yds and that's a pretty vague claim.

I like the look of the Close Quaters Combat style with the shorter(16") barrel, but I want the accuracy of the longer Stainless Steel barrels.
Barrel length has a neglible effect on accuracy within the effective range of the 5.56 cartridge.

Also, it seems alot of the AR-15's come with permanent flash suppressor. Are there any that you can buy with a threaded barrel? I want to eventually attach a class 3 suppressor.
The only ARs that have permanently attached flash suppresors at ones with bbls 14.5" or shorter.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:33:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stang46gt:
JustinOK34, thanks for the response. I was eyeing the patrolmans carbine, that and the dissipator carbine. Is one better than the other?



for me, it relays on looks ( i like the carbine better myself)

h/w, the dissipator will have a longer sight radius and suppsidly, the parts wear is less...

Link Posted: 12/28/2005 10:43:26 PM EDT
I think the best "all around" ar, ever, is this configuration...

A3 upper, 18" H-bar, barrel turned down under the full length handguards, A1 Buttstock.

It's short enough for carbine use, but still very much a rifle, and it's simple and light weight.

No doo-dads, no complication or parts that are useful sometimes and not others.

And, I'm slightly biased because I built one like this based on my own recommendation!
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 11:08:02 PM EDT
I think the best all-around AR is a Midlength A3. It has a 16" barrel that is proportional to the rifle (has roughly the same amount of barrel sticking out from the handguards as the 20"--fits a bayonet) and has a longer sight radius. If you like the M4 look, get a 14.5" barrel with a permentantly attached FH. If it must be a BM (they don't make midlengths) and have a 16" barrel, I agree with the M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine even though I hate 16" M4 barrels.


Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:

Originally Posted By stang46gt:
JustinOK34, thanks for the response. I was eyeing the patrolmans carbine, that and the dissipator carbine. Is one better than the other?



for me, it relays on looks ( i like the carbine better myself)

h/w, the dissipator will have a longer sight radius and suppsidly, the parts wear is less...


Bushmaster Dissipators use a carbine gas system, so the only benefits are the longer sight radius and handguard.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:07:47 AM EDT
Thanks for the help guys. I knew I brought my ????'s to the right place.
I think I will go price/order the patrolmans model.

thanks again

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 3:52:19 AM EDT

the real question is what do you want to do with an AR?


It's going to be a toy. Shooting paper at the range(at my club we have a max. of 300 yards)

I definately plan to get some 30 and 40 round mags and just unload as fast as I can pull the trigger, as I have done with my Desert Eagle .50AE and Glock 19.

I guess the reason I want the AR-15 is because it is a good
cross between a sniper rifle and a CQB carbine.

Accuracy is very important. But the shorter the barrel and still acheive accuracy at 300yds.
Do they make an 18" barrel?

Regauarding Wilsons, All the extras they list,

Forged upper (flat top) and lower receivers
Premium Wilson Combat Match Grade Super Sniper Barrel, 20" OAL
Free Floated Aluminum Handguard
Ergonomically Correct Pistol Grip
Crisp 3 3.5# Trigger Pull with JP Trigger/Hammer Group *Premium Mil-Spec Bolt and Bolt Carrier
Hard Anodize Finish on Receivers
Mil-Spec Black Manganese Phosphate (Parkerized) or Armor-Tuff Finish on steel components
Caliber - 5.56/.223 Remington
Overall Length 38"
Weight Unloaded 9 1/4#
Magazine Capacity Accepts all M-16/AR-15 Style Magazines, One Magazine Included


Are the above items standard, or really an improvement over the others.

Thanks for any help, I've been into pistols for a long time and just bought a shotgun
(Benelli SBE II), and now I want a Kick-ass AR-15 ( wish I had $16,000 for an M-16)

Frank
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 5:49:40 AM EDT


It's going to be a toy. Shooting paper at the range(at my club we have a max. of 300 yards)

I definately plan to get some 30 and 40 round mags and just unload as fast as I can pull the trigger, as I have done with my Desert Eagle .50AE and Glock 19.

I guess the reason I want the AR-15 is because it is a good
cross between a sniper rifle and a CQB carbine.

Accuracy is very important. But the shorter the barrel and still acheive accuracy at 300yds.



Your use/applications sound exactly like mine: all fun and games and little (if any) thought to SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situations. I owned a 20" Colt A2 years ago, sold it and a few months ago bought it back. After using it for awhile and seeing somebody else's configuration I decided it wasn't what I wanted. The 20" barrel served no purpose but making the gun less handy. The handle made scope use a chore. So, I sold my Colt and bought a gun set up more approriately for how I use it. I went with:

A2 stock (simple, solid and less sinister looking than the collapsible)
16" Hbar (16" because that's all you need and light weight isn't an issue)
Flattop (because I decided that for my range use a scope is what I really wanted)
Midlength handguard (for hand position comfort, looks and smoother operation)
improved trigger (the stock trigger and the diffficulty upgrading it is the first thing that made me question the Colt)

With this configuration I get all the firing/use/design characteristics of the AR in a compact package and without all that G.I. Joe/bad ass wanna-be B.S. (with apologies to real bad asses and true military servicemen and women).

BTW, there's an article posted up under the "INFORMATION" tab about the IDEAL RIFLE

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:56:54 PM EDT
I think I decided on the Bushmaster 16in Carbine with Bird Cage Flash Suppressor
It has the "heavy barrel" which seems to be more durable then the M4 type.

The only thing I couldn't find out was if the flash suppressor is permanently mounted. It
doesn't say if it is or isn't. If it's not permanent, than I think this is the gun for me!!

What do you guys think?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/frankeva/bcwa3f16.jpg

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:01:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/29/2005 1:03:15 PM EDT by redfisher]
all right noobs, gather 'round.....................

In order of quality and popularity

Colt LE6920 or 6721 (best all around 16" carbine and "just like our troops" almost)

Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine - nearly the Colts above, sans a few subtleties

Rock River Arms- 16" chrome lined carbine: good all around carbine/ great fit/finish/value

Armalite 16" carbine same features as above

Many "others"

Truth be told, it is hard to go wrong with any of these

Welcome to the site and one of the more gratifying pursuits!!



EDIT: FrankAR15....get the flat-top version of that one!! You'll be glad you did!!
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:05:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankAR15:
I think I decided on the Bushmaster 16in Carbine with Bird Cage Flash Suppressor
It has the "heavy barrel" which seems to be more durable then the M4 type.

The only thing I couldn't find out was if the flash suppressor is permanently mounted. It
doesn't say if it is or isn't. If it's not permanent, than I think this is the gun for me!!

What do you guys think?

i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/frankeva/bcwa3f16.jpg




The 16" HBAR is a great choice, too! I'm sure you're getting the Flat-Top version (Bushmaster probably doesn't have a pic on their site, though).

The 16" Carbine you picked out has a removable flash suppessor (flash hider). You're good to go.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 1:09:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FrankAR15:
It has the "heavy barrel" which seems to be more durable then the M4 type.

I'd be interested as to why you think a heavy bbl is more durable than an M4 profile bbl...because for all intents and purposes the heavy bbl is not more durable. However for the extra weight of the hvy bbl, you will get a bbl that will not heat up as quickly which will make it's accuracy vs. ROF a bit more dependable but, for a semi-auto civilian rifle, that is a moot point.

The only thing I couldn't find out was if the flash suppressor is permanently mounted. It doesn't say if it is or isn't. If it's not permanent, than I think this is the gun for me!!
The flash suppressor is not permanently attached. If it ever is, the dealer or manufacturer will explicitly state so or make some reference to NFA firearms (e.g. machine gun or SBR).


What do you guys think?
I think it's a fine rifle but did you look into Stag Arms? You can get the same quality of rifle (some would say even better) for less $$$ and the money you save could be spent on mags and ammo...the necessities. :)

One last thing to note is that Bushmaster does not use a mil-spec diameter buffer tube so if you ever want to change out the tele stock, you will have to replace the buffer tube. That's really just a pet peeve of mine. RRA tele stocks are the same. While you think you not want to change the tube, you never know.
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