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Posted: 11/18/2005 2:02:57 PM EDT
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Keep in mind the dealer doesnt pay $1600 for that shotgun even if you do. He cant offer you more than what he could get a brand new one for. I dont know what dealer cost is on that shotgun, but for examples sake, lets say he can get that shotgun, at dealer cost, for $1100, and he is selling the Bushmaster for $850 or $900. Considering your shotgun is used, it is a fair trade from the dealers point of view. If you dont want to get paid less than dealer cost for your shotgun, dont sell it to a dealer. Sell it to an individual who cant get dealer pricing. You'll get much closer to what you are looking for. Then take the money and buy the AR you'd like. |
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The dealer would be making out like a bandit, but that is his job. new-arguy hit the nail on the head, and the dealer isn't exactly scalping you. Personally, however, I would not go for it. If you dropped $1600 on that shotty, there is no sense trading it for a $800-900 rifle. Have you considered selling the shotty for cash and then diving into the AR market? - BG |
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Well the Shotgun may be worth $1600 to you but can the dealer actually sell it for that? If so, how long do you think it would take for him to find a buyer at that price. Relatively speaking people who are willing and have the means to spend $1600 on a shotgun are also willing and have the means to pay as much as $2000 for a new one as apposed to $1600 for a used one regardless of how good a shape it is in. MSRP for Bushmasters is around a $1000 but everyone knows they can be had NIB for around $800 to $900. So per Illinigunner21's advice the dealer would break even or lose money on the trade if he gave you the rifle plus $800 cash in the trade. The problem is the dealer isn't in business to break even. The dealer is dealing to make money. So, if you really want $1600 for your shotgun, you sell it for that. Buy your AR and pocket the difference. If that's too much trouble then see if the dealer will throw in a few mags and or some ammo to sweeten the deal for you. EDIT: Oh and yes, I believe they call that model the Commando and if this is your first AR I would opt for something with a 16" barrel. The velocity and long range performance of .223 & 5.56 ammo is greatly reduced when fired from an 11" barrel with or without the 5" flash suppressor. |
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I would second the suggestion that if you are new to rifles (and the AR-15 in particular), you do not necessarily want the 11.5" barrel with the 5" flash hider - unless you specifically wanted that type. It is an odd and unusual configuration, and the 11.5" barrel has quite bad ballistics (in terms of the effectiveness of the ammo). But unlike the NFA-registered short-barreled rifles, you still have the cumbersome 16" long total barrel length (because the 5" flash supressor must be permanently attached). Better to get a rifle with an actual 16" barrel, or a 14.5" barrel with a 1.5" flash hider. Both of those are far better "first" AR rifles, IMO. Good luck! |
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I appreciated guys for the barrel length infos. I guessed, I hinted to them about being curious about ARs so they offered that configurtion to me. I still have so many (maybe silly) questions for you guys but I don't really know what's relevant to ask at this time. If you don't mind, could you tell me what I should be looking for when buying my first AR and what other accessories are important (like more mags, scope, which brand is good...etc)? |
OK so like I said, if you think you can get $1600 for it, post on the EE board here and/or some other board that specializes in this sort of thing. Sell it for $1600 and buy an AR out right. But don't spend a lot of money posting add's in your local newspaper. $20.00/week will eat up your profit margin real fast. If you do post it in the paper make it clear to anyone that responds that you will only meet them in a public (not your home) place for a FTF exchange and get the name and address of the indvidual you sell it to. If you post it on EE specify that the same conditions will apply if the buyer is local. If the interested party is out of state make sure they know it has to be an FFL to FFL Transfer and the buyer pays all shipping/handling and Transfer fees. Another alternative you may want to consider is, if the dealer in question accepts consignments you could offer to consign it, he may offer you a bit more say, $1100 to $1300 and list it in his shop for $1300 to $1500 to move it. If it doesn't move for those kind of prices you can lower your expectations. One of the major issues here is demand. High Dollar O/U shotguns only appeal to certain people of means with refined tastes in shotguns. People like that aren't generally bargain shoppers and your run of the mill bird hunter/trap shooter isn't going to pay $1600 for a used Berreta O/U when he can buy a Remington 870 Wingmaster for less than $400 or a Mossberg 500 for even less. |
Definitely spend some time reading up on various threads here. Almost daily, people will ask similar adive - i.e. what brand, what configuration, etc., so you can read plenty of that. If you like, you can also browse through some of the picture posts (some are tacked at the top of the page) and get an idea for what you think you might like. In general, there are a ton of great manufacturers out there - including Armalite/Eagle, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River Arms, CMMG (and others). For a NIB factory rifle, you should expect to pay between $800 and $900, depending on configuration. If you look around various dealers online, you can sometimes find really good deals. (As you may or may not know, you can buy an AR on-line, but it needs to be shipped to a local dealer with a federal firearms license (FFL) who is willing to transfer the rifle - who will then usually charge you a fee ($20-$50) to transfer it to you, but should not charge sales tax since it it out of state, and he is just transfering it to you, not selling it to you.) The two basic configurations are the 16" barrel length and the 20" (standard) barrel length. Both are equally accurate, but the velocity (and some ballistic characteristics and effective range) are superior with the 20" barrel. (Slight variations include 14.5" barrels with fixed flash hiders and 18" barrels). Beyond that, the main issue is the upper receiver - whether you want the type with the fixed carrying handle, or with a "flat-top" and a detachable carry handle. The fixed handle is simpler, but the flat top gives you FAR better options for mounting optics if you decide to go that route later (and the detachable handle still works just as good as the fixed handle). For a first rifle, most people find a 16" barrel and a flat-top upper (with the detachable handle) to be the most versatile and fun rifle. (Usually, people combine that with a collapsible stock, as oppsoed to the fixed buttstock usually found on the 20" rifles). The sky is the limit if/when you decide on scopes. There are the non-magnified "red-dot" scopes like the AimPoint and EOTEch, which are very useful for quick target acquisition and can be very accurate. There are the magnified "tactical" scopes - like the ACOG and ELCAN scopes that are very versatile, and of course there are more high-powered scopes. There is an optics forum on ar15.com as well. You'll definitely want mags and ammo - there is a magazine forum here on ar15.com as well, with a ton of info. You want to be a little careful, since there are a small number of crappy brands of magazines out there (that can lead to malfunctions). Basically, you can't go wrong with USGI 30-round magazines - and you should be able to find them for between $10 and $15 used. |
Not just no but hell no. We can't let these gun dealers do something like make a living now can we? How dare they try to make a profit. What are they fucking thinking? What we need to do is drive these gun dealers our of business. How dare they invest in opening a gun store in an ever increasing difficult atmosphere in an attempt to make a living and feed their families. Who needs them? |
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