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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - PUSHING BUSHMASTER (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/7/2005 6:14:52 PM EDT
| I was wondering what you guys thought? I have been doing my research about purchasing my first AR, I have narrowed the choice to RRA,DPMS and BUSHMASTER. Recently I have gone to my local gun shop to make my mind up, the gun shop owner was really trying to push Bushmaster on me, I asked if he can get me a price and availabilty on DPMS and RRA, he came back saying that 8 to 10 weeks for the DPMS and RRA, I personally spoke to DPMS and they said 2 weeks. THe gun shop has Bushy in stock. He followed up by saying he didnt like DPMS and that I should believe him due to him being an EX Marine snipper. I also was asking to get a price on the Aimpoint M2, he followed by saying that Eotech is the way to go not Aim. What a theory he has Eotech in stock. Is this I guy just giving me a line of shit due to him having all the products in stock? |
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1) Time to find a new dealer. 2) I just bought my first AR Saturday. It's a National Match A2, and I debated between BM and RRA. After much advice and checking out the 2 of them, I went with RRA and LOVE it. I'm not saying anything against BM-I just prefered the RRA. |
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He may be. It is up to you to make your choices in the end however Bushy is in my opinion superior to both RRA and DPMS. They use better materials in their barrels and chrome lining is a sure thing on everything but their Varminter and DCM rifle. RRA will probably have a step above Bushy on the finish. Eotech vs. Aimpoint is a really subjective thing. Check out both optics and make a choice. No matter what you will be able to get an Eotech set up new for cheaper than an Aimpoint new. My advice would be to check the optics forums here and buy from one of the dealers in the EE. |
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Depending on your requirements, I would say the Bushmaster is your best choice. I have a RRA and DPMS, but Bushmasters typically are configured better - the way I like them. Chromelined bores & chambers, most # of "milspec" parts, etc.... And, I'd also choice the Eotech over the Aimpoint. Personal preferance, but I find the 65 moa circle great for CQB work. Now, he still needs to respect YOUR choices......... |
Your dealer may be buying through a distributor or may not have and 'elite' status to be able to get the 2 week that they mentioned on the phone to you. Or it could be BS. Where else can you go? I own RRA, Armalite, Colt, PWA, DPMS, Ameetec, and Bushmaster. I wouldn't hesitate to grab any one of them to defend the fort. Optics are a biblical discussion. Get the gun, worry about the optics later. I have Leupold, Simmons, and Aimpoint. Acog is on the way. You cannot go wrong with the Bushie, but is the wait and any possible savings for the RRA worth your while? I shot an Eothingee a week ago. I was not impressed. |
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Buy what you want, not what the gunshop guru tries to push on you. Personally speaking, you can't go wrong with RRA or Bushmaster. No opinion one way or another about complete DPMS rifles. I'm an EOTech owner, but the Aimpoint is NOT shit. Just as good (but in my EOTech-biased mind, not superior  )Make sure you can screw around with whatever you want to buy. Handle the EOTech and Aimpoint and see what you like better. Do the same with the rifles. WIZZO |
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Hang around here and do some research (search button). Its probably not coincidence that he was only suggesting products he had in stock. Bushy is great company and 80% of my AR's are from them, but RRA is just as good for a little cheaper. I would only use the gun store to get a feel for the configuration of AR you would like, do all your purchasing online from a respected dealer, YMMV. |
Likewise don't not buy the Bushmaster because he is trying to convince you of it. His argument has merits even if he is being overbearing with it and out of line. Check them all out, but be objective in acknowledging the pros of the Bushy. |
+1 to all.
What the MOS for a snipper? 8541and a half?  J/K, not sure what he thinks this has to do with comparing a Bushmaster to a RRA or DPMS. This might just be indicative. Make sure he doesn't gouge you on prices. CDNN's new catalog advertised Bushie 16 in M4 Type for $799. |
I wish all questions were this easy, anyone that knows the AR15 will tell you that Bushmaster is your best bet. This guy seems to know what he is talking about, I have ordered parts off of DPMS and they told me three days, turned out to be 18 so this guy might be telling you the truth. In my and many others opinion DPMS is at the bottom of the AR food chain, all out junk. Couldn’t give you any advice on optics being I have minimal knowledge on them, however if I had to give you a suggestions I would go with EOTech. If you don’t go with Bushmaster go with RRA they also make a solid carbine, not a Bushmaster but its still solid. But please if its one thing you do stay the hell away from Panther Arms, I’ve yet to hear anything good about them from a legit non DPMS owner yet. But like others have said, don’t be forced into it if your not 100% with it, get what best suits you, what you feel comfortable with, no matter how much its cost, its looks or performance what it all comes down to is your satisfaction, you’ll know which one is for you when she’s in your arms, you’ll feel that bond between man and AR. 
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The CONFIGURATION is more important thant the manufacturer. It just so happens that Bushmaster has better configurations in my opinion. You have to be more careful when buying from RRA, and ESPECIALLY from DPMS. You can save some money, but you're sacrificing better parts. If you know EXACTLY how you want your rifle setup, and with what parts, buy confidently from any manufacturer. If you're not sure what to ask about, stick with Bushmaster. That's my opinion. I have two Eotechs, and I think they are FAR superior. The fact that they cost on average $150-200 cheaper after mounting hardware, is just GRAVY! I think the Aimpoints LOOK sexier, and I like their long battery life, and I like how you can quickly turn it on to a specific intensity, but the RETICLE of the Eotech is why I think it is the best. |
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First off there is no such thing as a EX Marine, only Former Marine. Any Marine that finished basic would know that. Second find a new dealer, this guy is full of shit. DPMS makes a good product and Aimpoints are great optics. Personally I would choose a Bushy first and an Aimpoint over an EOTech. |
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The only thing different between RRA and Bushy, physically, is the barrel steel and contours of said barrels. RRA doesn't offer LW barrels and chrome-lining is an option (remember, RRA rifles are supposed to be semi-custom rifles, chrome-lined barrels are less accurate than unlined chrome-moly) Bushmaster has 4150 steel while RRA has 4140. IIRC, the difference is gonna be negligible in something that doesn't live on an M16 lower. Chrome lining adds to the durability of the 4140, almost negating this argument. But some guys will want 4150 just because it's "mil-spec" whether they need it or not. An added bonus to RRA is their NM trigger in all of their rifles. That's a $100 freebie. Other than the barrel, there shouldn't be much of a difference between the 2. Both are top shelf. WIZZO |
| You will not go wrong with any of those . If possible , find one or more dealers where you can handle all three rifles . There is alot of my brand is better than your brand around here . Look through the troubleshooting threads and you will see no brand is immune . Most of the people that like to bash DPMS have no experience with their complete rifles , just repeating what they have heard . I agree that no matter who you choose make sure the barrel is chrome lined . headbang.gif |
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the guy is obviously trying to push what he has in stock along with personal preference. He may be a jackass, but he may also stock Bushmaster and Eotech beause he truly believes they have a better product. Or perhaps those companies are easier for him to work with. Bushmaster does have a good product. But so do other companies. BTW, they are ALL parts guns. |
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Sounds to me like this dealer is out to make a quick buck and not give a crap what you get "stuck with". If I were you I would find another dealer. As far as quality goes I can only vouch for DPMS. Their customer service BLOWS but outside of that I feel they build a solid rifle. I haven't had any problems with mine since I got it. My next will be an RRA (or a build compromised mainly of RRA parts). Asking who builds a better rifle basically comes down to personal preferance (I held a bushy and didn't like it but that doesn't mean that you won't). "Ford vs. Chevy"....."Glock vs. Everything else" is what it boilds down too. Ultimately it will be your decision. Whatever you do just make sure your satisfied
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Don't take the hard sell, but don't discount Bushmaster. I have a Bushmaster M4and I'm planning to purchase a 20" Bushmaster A3 to go with it. They're well-made. I like them better than the RRA weapons, but RRA arms are good also. I like the chrome-lined barrels and the mil-spec parts in the Bushmasters. Buy from a different dealer so you won't feel taken advantage of. |
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Here’s my thoughts and you can take them for what they are worth. I’m a “If you want the best AR, you have to build it yourself” kind of guy and feel that all of the AR makers out there take at least one or two shortcuts that I don’t care for. I like RRA but one thing I don’t like about their factory built rigs is chrome lined barrels are not standard. (Special order only). From what I understand, special order RRA’s (especially during the last year) take forever to come in. So with that said, If I was going to buy a factory built AR out of your list, I would get a Bushy (assuming you are looking for a M4gery\Carbine) I also prefer Eotechs over Aimpoints but realize that is a person thing. A small shop generally can’t afford to keep a large inventory so they generally stock up based on one or two of the following… demand, profit margin or personal preference. When talking AR’s (with the exception of Colt’s) I doubt there is a large difference in potential profit margins to be made between the different makers so considering that, if you could only carry one line, you would probably either choose the one you feel the majority of your customers want and\or the one that you think is the best. So it’s not surprising that a dealer is going to push the brand he has and it doesn’t always mean he’s pushing it just because that is all he has. I think the combo of a Bushy with an Eotech is a very good setup so I can’t fault him there as I feel it’s good advice but…
once he said that, I would have rolled my eyes and told him to have a nice day and left. That’s just pure gunshop BS and I have no tolerance for that. |
| I can't speak for RRA having only Bushys, but the one time I did have a problem with their product, the customer service was great. Had to ship an item back to them twice, once my fault, but they still owned up. Even return shipping to them was paid, they e-mailed a shipping slip, print and off it goes, they made it right and it didn't cost me a dime, what more can you say,,,glmf |
| I like that Bushmaster uses the spec barrel steel even though not individualy MP inspected like Colt and they are a more AR standardized company.Every one who gets a Bushmaster civilian,LEO and Govt/Military except for select fire get the same grade weapon,same materials.So I think Bushy is best out of the Box.I have built though on RRA parts and lowers with barrels from Bushmaster or CMMG who makes great barrels and offers what nop one else but Colt does..a SOCCOM medium weight M4 barrel.So Im also a "build it yourself for the best"mentality.DPMS the only bad things I have heard are Bolts breaking frequently and I dont want to trash a company on opinion.I would go Bushmaster and see what his prices are even though hes a jackass and pushing his product stock wich a god saleaman could do through comparison and knowledge and not seem like its being pushed but he didnt do it that way.I would go with Bushmaster for the best for your buck,materials and quality and the fact they manufacture 1 grade of AR15...CMMG also sells complete rifles and with their 14.7 SOCCOM barreled carbine the closest I think to the features of an M4A1 minus the select fire. |
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Rock River and DPMS do not sell through Distributors that I am aware of. Both of those companies are dealer direct. Which means if you are a dealer, you have to set up accounts with those companies to carry their rifles. Bushmaster goes through a lot of distributors, so you can sell their rifles year after year and never even talk to anyone at Bushmaster if you dont want to. Having said that... Between the three I would also choose the Bushmaster, but I have to tell you, the dealer doesnt sound like he is being completely up front. Most will agree, others wont, and those who wont can disagree with me all they like. DPMS is not the same quality as Bushmaster or Rock River. From what I have seen, Rock River is as good as Bushmaster in s far as quality goes. However, Bushmaster offers you better/more options. Between Bushmaster and Rock River, if you take two equal rifles and compare them side by side, the Bushmaster barrel will be made with a little better 4150 steel, the Rock River will have 4140. The difference may be marginal to a casual shooter, I agree. But who can deny that 4150 is not actually better steel? You can't, it is. Period. Even if I dont need it, it is better. In addition, the Bushmaster will have a chrome lined chamber and bore. The Rock River can have it, but you have to special order it and it costs a little more. The Bushmaster also has more barrel weights. You can get a lightweight barrel, a more traditional M4 style barrel, or a heavy barrel. With Rock River, you get heavy (their M4 barrels are not thin under the handguards), heavier (their standard HBAR) and heaviest (bull barrel). So even though the quality is pretty equal, Bushmaster has more of what Im looking for. |
I would buy the bushmaster and Eotech. |
+1 I went with a bushmaster barrel because of the 4150 steel, chrome lined bore AND chamber. |
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Bushmaster man, it's just a high quality product. 7075T6 & Chrome Lining nuff said. As far as Optics go the "big 3" and you can't loose. ACOG = Used heavily my the Military. I've shot a TA01 a lot and loved it. The magnification + red dot combinatrion make it the most attractive I feel. I think it's the magnification that makes it so popular with the Military. AimPoint = M68 with a National Stock Number which means a military unit can order these things through the regular supply system. EOTech = Gaining in popularity, waterproof, durable, still works with broken glass, coolest looking Optic IMHO. Of course it's just my $0.02 |
| I don't think I'll ever buy another gun from a gun store. It's much cheaper to order online. I know all our local gun shops overcharge, especially for military-style weapons and handguns. They do have better prices for high-volume stuff like shotguns and deer rifles. |
I spelled it wrong, it's Hagues here is a link to their website It's something like exit 24 off of 295 south, it's about 10 minutes from the Walt Whitman Bridge |
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I have 2 bushys myself and LOVE 'em...I dont mind this at all...also the dealer stocks what HE likes... I own an eotech 552 and just ordered the Comp M3...It will be here Thursday 11/10 I will reply again after my mind is made up...but I ordered the m3 because I had a hard time getting used to the eotech...not a bad optic mind you...Outstanding just wanted to try out the other side as well. I think the decision on the rifle may be mute...you will most likely buy another :) Good luck! |
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I have to chime in on behalf of DPMS. I have one of their LR308s with a 24" barrel. I've got about 200 rounds through it. It's been perfect. It shoots amazing groups-1/2 MOA with good match ammo, NO malfunctions, great fit and finish. The only thing about service and tech is waiting for them to produce new rifles. They're backordered for months. Any problems or questions are taken care of promptly. And their new steel magazines function perfectly. They WANT YOU as a customer and they're willing to work for you! I've got a Bushmaster .308, and although it shoots damn well, I like the DPMS for accuracy. I've shot Colts, AR10s, and RRA rifles, and I don't see anything sub-par with DPMS, except their low prices! |
I too have to Chime in for DPMS. Although...I may not like the lack of Chrome lining, but that's ok. I build my rifles and carbines...you can save $$ and get exactly what you want. Personally having inspected a quite a number of BM lowers and uppers in recent times....I can't say I'm all that impressed with the fit, finish and quality of machineing. Hell I had one AR from Bushy...after maybe 200 rounds, that sucker rattled better than most baby rattles--plus you could practically fit a phone book between the receivers...and after maybe 800 rounds between cleanings....would stop working all together...I ended up selling the gun after 10K of ammo through it. What it comes down to is this: shop around examine the guns for fit finish and overall quality...surf a bit on here and see what brands have what quirks...and decide what's right for you. Are you going to the sand pit once a month to bust some caps? Or are you taking this gun to war and betting your life on it...
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - PUSHING BUSHMASTER (Page 1 of 2)
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