.

Then again, rethinking the price, $1400 - $1900 is about what any of us should expect for any weapon system is isnt open and standardized like the G3, FAL,, AK, and AR. It's very unlikely we will ever see a new military style weapon at the sub-$1000 price point in the near future

Quoted: Then again, rethinking the price, $1400 - $1900 is about what any of us should expect for any weapon system is isnt open and standardized like the G3, FAL,, AK, and AR. It's very unlikely we will ever see a new military style weapon at the sub-$1000 price point in the near future

Perhaps, but being baited and switched is wrong no matter what the price point is.

They lost me $1655 for the basic carbine with sights and stock.

Maybe I'll buy one used one day if they turn out to be any good.

Quoted: Quoted: Then again, rethinking the price, $1400 - $1900 is about what any of us should expect for any weapon system is isnt open and standardized like the G3, FAL,, AK, and AR. It's very unlikely we will ever see a new military style weapon at the sub-$1000 price point in the near future Perhaps, but being baited and switched is wrong no matter what the price point is.

Ditto, and this is after they had posted on their site that they were going to try to get the price down. If they keep switching things like this they are going to lose more money than they make.

How much is the deposit supposed to be?

I was emailing Larry at FBMG Inc. and he is getting 30 rifles. I preordered one with Rob Arm but I never heard from them so I have one ordered with Larry. He is in Utah and close to Rob Arm and he gives me updates when he gets them. I sent him this email on Aug. 3rd

It is August, the first rifles are to be delivered
> soon. Any news, info,
> pricing, or availability on the XCR?

His reply:

Nothing new.  They are still planning on September as
far as I'm aware.  I've ordered 30.  They still have
not given me the final pricing yet or actual ship
date.  They are scrambling over there trying to get
ready for this as the feeling is that the XCR is going
to roll out huge.  

He told me he has shot it and is very impressed with it. I need to get this to hold me over until my Cobb BA50 arrives in Nov.

I want to like this rifle really, really badly, but the delays and price jumps just leave a bad taste in my mouth.

I talked to RobArm on the phone, and they said that the rifle will be ready to ship in 6weeks, however the 7.62 conversion will not be ready till 2months after that.  I am HIGHLY sceptical of this firearm, especially after their M96 track record.   As for pirce increases, i think $1500 for a high quality rifle of high quality parts it no asking too much if it is really all its cracked up to be.  In the end I just may prefer getting a high quality AK and keeping my AR.  I will wait till about 4-5months after the rifle comes out before I buy one.  I recommend you don't do the same otherwise there wont be anyone to be a guinea pig!

Just recieved email from Robarms:

ROBINSON ARMAMENT CO.

Our records indicate that you desire to order an XCR rifle.   Shortly we will be shipping XCR Rifles with the following specifications.

Cost: $1449.99 Retail. If you have questions concerning dealer price of Law Enforcement Officer/Military pricing please contact us directly.

Caliber:     5.56 NATO  (Convertible to other calibers as conversion kits become available)
Barrel:  16.02" Long, Chrome-Lined; 1 in 9" Twist
Muzzle Attachments:  M16A2 Flash Hider
Gas Adjustment:  4 Position
Charging Handle:  Non-reciprocating on Left side of Upper Receiver.  Charging handle knob contains forward assist.
Overall length:  37.75" (Stock Extended); 27.4" (Stock Folded)
Weight Empty:  7.5 lbs.
1913 Standard ("Picatinny") Rail System:  Rails at 12, 3, 6, & 9 O'clock positions.
Magazine:  One 30 round GI M16 magazine
Packaging:  One plastic rifle case.
Front & Rear Sights:  Yankee Hill flip sights (Optional, $169.90 Additional Charge)
Buttstock: All machined aluminum folding tube stock with rubber butt pad and cheek rest Foregrip:  Falcon 5.57" Rail Covers (Optional, $12.00 each Additional Charge)

1)            Choose only one payment option below for your $600.00 deposit, per gun, and filling out any other requested information.

Faxed Check (also known as "ACH").   This payment option allows you to fill out a check and fax it to us on the form.  This allows us to debit your account for the amount of the check.  Simply Download the http://www.ak47.com/ACH%20Authorization%2011May05.pdf , Follow, the instructions, and fax it to us at 801-355-0402.

Pre-Pay by Check or Money Order.   Simply send us a check or money order for the full amount of the invoice.  Make Check or Money Order Payable to:

Robinson Armament Co.
PO Box 16776
Salt Lake City, UT 84116-0776

Credit Card.  Please call with your credit card information.  We will add a three percent (3%) credit card charge to your invoice if you select this method of payment.

ORDER INFORMATION (* Denotes Required Information)

Quoted: Just recieved email from Robarms: ROBINSON ARMAMENT CO. Our records indicate that you desire to order an XCR rifle.   Shortly we will be shipping XCR Rifles with the following specifications. Cost: $1449.99 Retail. If you have questions concerning dealer price of Law Enforcement Officer/Military pricing please contact us directly. Caliber:     5.56 NATO  (Convertible to other calibers as conversion kits become available) Barrel:  16.02" Long, Chrome-Lined; 1 in 9" Twist Muzzle Attachments:  M16A2 Flash Hider Gas Adjustment:  4 Position Charging Handle:  Non-reciprocating on Left side of Upper Receiver.  Charging handle knob contains forward assist. Overall length:  37.75" (Stock Extended); 27.4" (Stock Folded) Weight Empty:  7.5 lbs. 1913 Standard ("Picatinny") Rail System:  Rails at 12, 3, 6, & 9 O'clock positions. Magazine:  One 30 round GI M16 magazine Packaging:  One plastic rifle case. Front & Rear Sights:  Yankee Hill flip sights (Optional, $169.90 Additional Charge) Buttstock: All machined aluminum folding tube stock with rubber butt pad and cheek rest Foregrip:  Falcon 5.57" Rail Covers (Optional, $12.00 each Additional Charge) 1)            Choose only one payment option below for your $600.00 deposit, per gun, and filling out any other requested information. Faxed Check (also known as "ACH").   This payment option allows you to fill out a check and fax it to us on the form.  This allows us to debit your account for the amount of the check.  Simply Download the http://www.ak47.com/ACH%20Authorization%2011May05.pdf , Follow, the instructions, and fax it to us at 801-355-0402. Pre-Pay by Check or Money Order.   Simply send us a check or money order for the full amount of the invoice.  Make Check or Money Order Payable to: Robinson Armament Co. PO Box 16776 Salt Lake City, UT 84116-0776 Credit Card.  Please call with your credit card information.  We will add a three percent (3%) credit card charge to your invoice if you select this method of payment. ORDER INFORMATION (* Denotes Required Information)

Damn.  Sights and buttstock are optional?

Quoted: ...Front & Rear Sights:  Yankee Hill flip sights (Optional, $169.90 Additional Charge) Buttstock: All machined aluminum folding tube stock with rubber butt pad and cheek rest Foregrip:  Falcon 5.57" Rail Covers (Optional, $12.00 each Additional Charge) ... Damn.  Sights and buttstock are optional?

Sights are optional (personally I'd opt out since I prefer the ARMS & Troy rear sights to the YHM).

but the $12 option seems to be the rail covers, not the buttstock.  (I don't know of any stock that is only $12).

Wow over 1600 with sights and it sounds like it has gained .5 lbs without the sights.






Glad I ordered another system, the system that shall not be named for less money.

The rifle is $1299 and the folding stock is $150 for a total of $1449.99. The rail covers are $12 a piece.

I am getting one from Larry at FMBG Inc. and he went to Rob Arms today and this is the email he sent:

They said 5 weeks.  I'm guessing that it is going to
be more like 6-7.

Okay so I allowed to play with the XCR prototype about 7 months ago, and I promised I wouldn’t talk about the design, but the XCR is a few weeks out and I can now open my mouth about what I liked and didn’t like and what changes have been made to a recent version I saw.


It has an ambi bolt release that can be worked two ways depending on shooter preference. The bolt release resides behind the mag well under the mag release fence. The index finger is used to press down toward the floor and the bolt will slide forward. It's very nice and seamless since the index finger is already off the trigger to release the magazine.

The bolt release also has a method that is friendly to anyone already trained on the AR15, but instead of using the palm to slap the bolt release you press it down with the thumb using the same hand used to insert the mag.

The ambi safety is longer on one side than the other. If they were the same length when the gun was in the fire position it would rub the trigger finger.

I watched the prototype extractor break after 1200 rounds, but the more recent version I saw had a much beefier extractor that endured 15K rounds without cleaning or care and it functioned without issue. The Bolt was also very clean compared to what an AR15 looks like after even 200 rounds. Extraction is strong, flinging shells about 8 feet to the 2'oclock position.

Mind you, that broken extractor freaking Alex Robison out. He fired the company that he outsourced to and expanded his internal machine shop to develop almost 100% of everything in house to the exact tolerances he wants. That one little broken extractor is one of the largest reasons the XCR is delayed

The old Ace stock used was a little low in relation to the sights, especially to someone that is used to an AR15. Robinson outsourced the stock design revision to an aeronautics plastics engineer in Utah to fix. The result is a stock that is polymer, collapsible and folding, and can be adjusted up and down for the best cheek weld. I don’t know if this stock will be sold with the final version.

The Quick barrel change is solid; screw and barrel extension have been beefed up to ensure no M96 style barrel ejections ever happen

So the big question now is accuracy right. Well the prototype, the very same from SHOT, was doing 1-2 MOA with crappy PMC ammo at 75 yards, with a pencil barrel that was abused to hell

My biggest beef with the XCR however is that the rail is too short for my taste, leaving too much of the free float barrel exposed, which is my same gripe with the M4. But Alex is supposed to be also making an ARMS SIR type rail that will allow for a rifle length sight radius

More info inbound soon…

Quoted: Okay so I allowed to play with the XCR prototype about 7 months ago, and I promised I wouldn’t talk about the design, but the XCR is a few weeks out and I can now open my mouth about what I liked and didn’t like and what changes have been made to a recent version I saw. It has an ambi bolt release that can be worked two ways depending on shooter preference. The bolt release resides behind the mag well under the mag release fence. The index finger is used to press down toward the floor and the bolt will slide forward. It's very nice and seamless since the index finger is already off the trigger to release the magazine. The bolt release also has a method that is friendly to anyone already trained on the AR15, but instead of using the palm to slap the bolt release you press it down with the thumb using the same hand used to insert the mag. The ambi safety is longer on one side than the other. If they were the same length when the gun was in the fire position it would rub the trigger finger. I watched the prototype extractor break after 1200 rounds, but the more recent version I saw had a much beefier extractor that endured 15K rounds without cleaning or care and it functioned without issue. The Bolt was also very clean compared to what an AR15 looks like after even 200 rounds. Extraction is strong, flinging shells about 8 feet to the 2'oclock position. Mind you, that broken extractor freaking Alex Robison out. He fired the company that he outsourced to and expanded his internal machine shop to develop almost 100% of everything in house to the exact tolerances he wants. That one little broken extractor is one of the largest reasons the XCR is delayed The old Ace stock used was a little low in relation to the sights, especially to someone that is used to an AR15. Robinson outsourced the stock design revision to an aeronautics plastics engineer in Utah to fix. The result is a stock that is polymer, collapsible and folding, and can be adjusted up and down for the best cheek weld. I don’t know if this stock will be sold with the final version. The Quick barrel change is solid; screw and barrel extension have been beefed up to ensure no M96 style barrel ejections ever happen So the big question now is accuracy right. Well the prototype, the very same from SHOT, was doing 1-2 MOA with crappy PMC ammo at 75 yards, with a pencil barrel that was abused to hell My biggest beef with the XCR however is that the rail is too short for my taste, leaving too much of the free float barrel exposed, which is my same gripe with the M4. But Alex is supposed to be also making an ARMS SIR type rail that will allow for a rifle length sight radius More info inbound soon…

Great info! Thanks for posting this.

Yes, thanks for the info. The website says they are selling an aluminum folding stock with it. They supposedly have 1000 preordered, that is a hell of a first run.

I probably wouldn't preorder it if I were you guys, just think of the turd they made called the M96 and the number of "revisions" that it went through, even after all that the rifle still sucks.

I just don't see anything on it that is better than AR15, at least not anything that would justify it's price tag.

think of parts and accessory availability.  the M96 was a total disaster in terms of that.  the XCR probably won't be as bad but it's still a concern.

Quoted: How much is the deposit supposed to be?

$600, according to my email.



and for those who say $1,600-$1,800 is too much............

I have at least that in a couple ARs, and in one case twice that in a M4gery project.

It will end up around the same as you would pay for an AR (top shelf) after adding FF rails. And this one is a multi-barrel possible weapon

It isn't for everyone, like an AR can be as the cost will separate things. But it doesn't detract from the fact it is a SCAR capable weapon

YMMV

edit 4 spellin'

Nicely said redfisher, not for everyone but it will hold me over until the FN civie Scar L and H.

Quoted: Okay so I allowed to play with the XCR prototype about 7 months ago, and I promised I wouldn’t talk about the design, but the XCR is a few weeks out and I can now open my mouth about what I liked and didn’t like and what changes have been made to a recent version I saw. It has an ambi bolt release that can be worked two ways depending on shooter preference. The bolt release resides behind the mag well under the mag release fence. The index finger is used to press down toward the floor and the bolt will slide forward. It's very nice and seamless since the index finger is already off the trigger to release the magazine. The bolt release also has a method that is friendly to anyone already trained on the AR15, but instead of using the palm to slap the bolt release you press it down with the thumb using the same hand used to insert the mag. The ambi safety is longer on one side than the other. If they were the same length when the gun was in the fire position it would rub the trigger finger. I watched the prototype extractor break after 1200 rounds, but the more recent version I saw had a much beefier extractor that endured 15K rounds without cleaning or care and it functioned without issue. The Bolt was also very clean compared to what an AR15 looks like after even 200 rounds. Extraction is strong, flinging shells about 8 feet to the 2'oclock position. Mind you, that broken extractor freaking Alex Robison out. He fired the company that he outsourced to and expanded his internal machine shop to develop almost 100% of everything in house to the exact tolerances he wants. That one little broken extractor is one of the largest reasons the XCR is delayed The old Ace stock used was a little low in relation to the sights, especially to someone that is used to an AR15. Robinson outsourced the stock design revision to an aeronautics plastics engineer in Utah to fix. The result is a stock that is polymer, collapsible and folding, and can be adjusted up and down for the best cheek weld. I don’t know if this stock will be sold with the final version. The Quick barrel change is solid; screw and barrel extension have been beefed up to ensure no M96 style barrel ejections ever happen So the big question now is accuracy right. Well the prototype, the very same from SHOT, was doing 1-2 MOA with crappy PMC ammo at 75 yards, with a pencil barrel that was abused to hell My biggest beef with the XCR however is that the rail is too short for my taste, leaving too much of the free float barrel exposed, which is my same gripe with the M4. But Alex is supposed to be also making an ARMS SIR type rail that will allow for a rifle length sight radius More info inbound soon…

Variablebinary,
  I was wondering what the issue with the barrel being exposed is, is it personal preference to have a longer rail or is it  bad to have the barrel exposed from a reliability/mechanical perspective?

Also have you talked to Alex about the 7.62x39 and 6.8SPC conversions? I've been wondering how he is going to get the 7.62x39 AR mags to work reliably that he mentioned awhile back. I've read that the 7.62x39 AR mags of old were not that great, I'm not sure if it has to do with the shoulder of the cartridge  in relation to the magazine curve but thats what I've heard.  I wonder if an AR type mag but with the AK curve would work?

I remember reading that the FN SCAR in 7.62x39 will be a conversion for the FN SCAR-H, buy changeing out the upper receiver. If the FN SCAR-H takes FAL mags like I've heard then it would make sence that the FN SCAR-H could use AK mags since the AK and FAL both use a paddle type mag release.

However Alex said sometime back that the XCR-H would probally use M-14 mags. I'd love to have the XCR-L in three calibers but I'm just wondering if it's going to work or if he'll have to go the same route FN has to get it to work out in the end?

Quoted: Quoted: Okay so I allowed to play with the XCR prototype about 7 months ago, and I promised I wouldn’t talk about the design, but the XCR is a few weeks out and I can now open my mouth about what I liked and didn’t like and what changes have been made to a recent version I saw. It has an ambi bolt release that can be worked two ways depending on shooter preference. The bolt release resides behind the mag well under the mag release fence. The index finger is used to press down toward the floor and the bolt will slide forward. It's very nice and seamless since the index finger is already off the trigger to release the magazine. The bolt release also has a method that is friendly to anyone already trained on the AR15, but instead of using the palm to slap the bolt release you press it down with the thumb using the same hand used to insert the mag. The ambi safety is longer on one side than the other. If they were the same length when the gun was in the fire position it would rub the trigger finger. I watched the prototype extractor break after 1200 rounds, but the more recent version I saw had a much beefier extractor that endured 15K rounds without cleaning or care and it functioned without issue. The Bolt was also very clean compared to what an AR15 looks like after even 200 rounds. Extraction is strong, flinging shells about 8 feet to the 2'oclock position. Mind you, that broken extractor freaking Alex Robison out. He fired the company that he outsourced to and expanded his internal machine shop to develop almost 100% of everything in house to the exact tolerances he wants. That one little broken extractor is one of the largest reasons the XCR is delayed The old Ace stock used was a little low in relation to the sights, especially to someone that is used to an AR15. Robinson outsourced the stock design revision to an aeronautics plastics engineer in Utah to fix. The result is a stock that is polymer, collapsible and folding, and can be adjusted up and down for the best cheek weld. I don’t know if this stock will be sold with the final version. The Quick barrel change is solid; screw and barrel extension have been beefed up to ensure no M96 style barrel ejections ever happen So the big question now is accuracy right. Well the prototype, the very same from SHOT, was doing 1-2 MOA with crappy PMC ammo at 75 yards, with a pencil barrel that was abused to hell My biggest beef with the XCR however is that the rail is too short for my taste, leaving too much of the free float barrel exposed, which is my same gripe with the M4. But Alex is supposed to be also making an ARMS SIR type rail that will allow for a rifle length sight radius More info inbound soon… Variablebinary,   I was wondering what the issue with the barrel being exposed is, is it personal preference to have a longer rail or is it  bad to have the barrel exposed from a reliability/mechanical perspective? Also have you talked to Alex about the 7.62x39 and 6.8SPC conversions? I've been wondering how he is going to get the 7.62x39 AR mags to work reliably that he mentioned awhile back. I've read that the 7.62x39 AR mags of old were not that great, I'm not sure if it has to do with the shoulder of the cartridge  in relation to the magazine curve but thats what I've heard.  I wonder if an AR type mag but with the AK curve would work? I remember reading that the FN SCAR in 7.62x39 will be a conversion for the FN SCAR-H, buy changeing out the upper receiver. If the FN SCAR-H takes FAL mags like I've heard then it would make sence that the FN SCAR-H could use AK mags since the AK and FAL both use a paddle type mag release. However Alex said sometime back that the XCR-H would probally use M-14 mags. I'd love to have the XCR-L in three calibers but I'm just wondering if it's going to work or if he'll have to go the same route FN has to get it to work out in the end?

The XCR ships with a pencil barrel. Thin barrels have low thermal resistance, which makes them more malleable the hotter the metal gets. A full length rail would protect the barrel better. The military beefed up the exposed portion of the barrel for the M4 and M16 for this reason.

Variablebinary,
I'd thought of that issue myself awhile back when I contacted RA and tryed to find out what the barrel diameter was. I figure if the barrel is to small in diameter I would find out if RA could ship the barrel to Cryocon and have a cryo-accurizing treatment done on it. Since Cryocon is in Ogden hopefully RA would be willing to do it.

Of course something like this would be interesting to. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=262783

Has anyone recieved an XCR yet?

They have updated their website.

http://www.robarm.com/xcrtm_modular_weapon_system.htm

I just received this email about my XCR:

I spoke with Robarm this week, they have bumped the
XCR back again.  Now to the latter half of December.

Maybe I will get it by X-mas.

It is going to be a race between the XCR and the Shrike...

Quoted: It is going to be a race between the XCR and the Shrike...

yeah,...... but what if the XCR is worth it?

have a good one.

S

Quoted: Quoted: It is going to be a race between the XCR and the Shrike... yeah,...... but what if the XCR is worth it? have a good one. S

What if it is??? RobArm is giving themselves a very bad rep right about now. That is what the fuss is all about.

I want one!   Looks sweet

Just spoke with Ty at Robarms and he tells me that they are waiting on a couple of parts that were outsourced to come in.  He told me 1 to 2 weeks for the first shipments to start going out.  Of course I've been hearing that since August.  I was committed to cancelling my order this time and buying a Bushy but Ty is pretty good.  He talked me into sticking it out for at least another two weeks.  I know, I'm a sucker.

-CincoDeMayo

Tag.

Yes Cinco, Ty told me 2 weeks on November 17 as well. With my luck, as soon as I put the money on the table, my Ares Shrike will be ready for delivery (and they will want their money). I wonder what will come first, my Shrike, or a belt feed system for the Robinson Arms M-96.

You guys are starting to get the message with this group.  Robinson cannot figure out what the hell it is doing wrt designing/manufacturing/marketing that gun and they will fail abysmally if they don't get their act together very soon.  The problem is that the gun as it exists today is too unfinished and is not in a condition to be marketed such that it can live up to Robinson's claims for the gun.  When I viewed production examples of the XCR at the 2005 SHOT show, I saw these problems such and the unfinished stock, ackward nature of the receiver disassembly, unavailabilty of company made 7.62x39mm magazines, etc.  This is also compounded by the fact that most people wanted to get the 6.8mm version of the gun, which still isn't even listed for sale (not even the barrel!) by Robinson.  This unpreparedness is one reason I believe the government did not select it for the SCAR contract - contrary to the bullshit about testing production examples sent to the evaluation trials without the blank firing adapters as Robinson claims.   I also believe that THE COMPANY IS HOLDING OUT FOR SOME BIG MILITARY OR POLICE CONTRACT WHICH WILL PROBABLY NEVER COME UNLESS THEY CAN DELIVER SOME RIFLES INTO CIVILIAN HANDS TO BEGIN BUILDING UP A REPUTATION FOR IT!  
Ronnie Barrett was absolutely correct in saying that he could not stay in business without civilian sales first.  If you recall, the M82 was introduced in 1982 but not picked up by the military until I think 1988, 6 years of having the rifle on the market for civilian shooters to use, evaluate and improve upon.  The same was true of the AR-15 and largely continues to this day with continual improvments like optics, free floated forends. bull barrels, rail forends - all this stuff was being used by civilians before the military picked it up.  
A final complaint with Robinson is that they are absolutely unwilling to listen to comments or sugestions.  Posters here have noted about being blown off by telephone calls and email messages.  The company seems to want to do its own thing and really doesn't care what the buyers think.  I believe it goes back to the company's preferential interest in getting a government contract for their products and ignoring civilians which are a secondary matter to them.  
If all this is true, I say FUCK ROBINSON!  Let them learn the hard way why following the policies above is disasterous for a firearm compay.  When they finish playing with their dicks and find to their sorrow that somebody is selling a piston powered AR upper with a side mounted cocking handle and interchangable barrels or FN introduces a semi auto SCAR for civilian sales, they'll get the message in the pocketbook.  Until then, they show no desire to change.

Yeah, what he said! (1_MOA) All politically correct companies that cater to the government, and ignore the citizens belong here ----> hat As far as Robinson goes, I have not made a judgement yet. The XCR is kind of a new discovery to me, but I am waiting for my dealer down here to get some in. It looks fantastic and seems to be the best features of the FAL, the AK-47 and the AR-15, without the drawbacks. Too bad the mag well was not modular, if the 7.62x39 could take AK mags and drums like the RAV02...hat
My idea of a nice setup, assuming it all works well, is as follows. The XCR with its stock 16" barrel in .223, a 16" 7.62x39 - these for ammo availability, an 18.5" medium fluted and 24" heavy fluted in 6.5 Grendel for medium/long range work. Finally a short 11.5" in .300 Fireball with a suppresor, because those furry woodland creatures are scary thats why. hose

Tag for any SAR "new" news  

Quoted: You guys are starting to get the message with this group.  Robinson cannot figure out what the hell it is doing wrt designing/manufacturing/marketing that gun and they will fail abysmally if they don't get their act together very soon.  The problem is that the gun as it exists today is too unfinished and is not in a condition to be marketed such that it can live up to Robinson's claims for the gun.  When I viewed production examples of the XCR at the 2005 SHOT show, I saw these problems such and the unfinished stock, ackward nature of the receiver disassembly, unavailabilty of company made 7.62x39mm magazines, etc.  This is also compounded by the fact that most people wanted to get the 6.8mm version of the gun, which still isn't even listed for sale (not even the barrel!) by Robinson.  This unpreparedness is one reason I believe the government did not select it for the SCAR contract - contrary to the bullshit about testing production examples sent to the evaluation trials without the blank firing adapters as Robinson claims.   I also believe that THE COMPANY IS HOLDING OUT FOR SOME BIG MILITARY OR POLICE CONTRACT WHICH WILL PROBABLY NEVER COME UNLESS THEY CAN DELIVER SOME RIFLES INTO CIVILIAN HANDS TO BEGIN BUILDING UP A REPUTATION FOR IT!   Ronnie Barrett was absolutely correct in saying that he could not stay in business without civilian sales first.  If you recall, the M82 was introduced in 1982 but not picked up by the military until I think 1988, 6 years of having the rifle on the market for civilian shooters to use, evaluate and improve upon.  The same was true of the AR-15 and largely continues to this day with continual improvments like optics, free floated forends. bull barrels, rail forends - all this stuff was being used by civilians before the military picked it up.   A final complaint with Robinson is that they are absolutely unwilling to listen to comments or sugestions.  Posters here have noted about being blown off by telephone calls and email messages.  The company seems to want to do its own thing and really doesn't care what the buyers think.  I believe it goes back to the company's preferential interest in getting a government contract for their products and ignoring civilians which are a secondary matter to them.   If all this is true, I say FUCK ROBINSON!  Let them learn the hard way why following the policies above is disasterous for a firearm compay.  When they finish playing with their dicks and find to their sorrow that somebody is selling a piston powered AR upper with a side mounted cocking handle and interchangable barrels or FN introduces a semi auto SCAR for civilian sales, they'll get the message in the pocketbook.  Until then, they show no desire to change.

Do you always try this hard to prove you know nothing

Quoted: Quoted: You guys are starting to get the message with this group.  Robinson cannot figure out what the hell it is doing wrt designing/manufacturing/marketing that gun and they will fail abysmally if they don't get their act together very soon.  The problem is that the gun as it exists today is too unfinished and is not in a condition to be marketed such that it can live up to Robinson's claims for the gun.  When I viewed production examples of the XCR at the 2005 SHOT show, I saw these problems such and the unfinished stock, ackward nature of the receiver disassembly, unavailabilty of company made 7.62x39mm magazines, etc.  This is also compounded by the fact that most people wanted to get the 6.8mm version of the gun, which still isn't even listed for sale (not even the barrel!) by Robinson.  This unpreparedness is one reason I believe the government did not select it for the SCAR contract - contrary to the bullshit about testing production examples sent to the evaluation trials without the blank firing adapters as Robinson claims.   I also believe that THE COMPANY IS HOLDING OUT FOR SOME BIG MILITARY OR POLICE CONTRACT WHICH WILL PROBABLY NEVER COME UNLESS THEY CAN DELIVER SOME RIFLES INTO CIVILIAN HANDS TO BEGIN BUILDING UP A REPUTATION FOR IT!   Ronnie Barrett was absolutely correct in saying that he could not stay in business without civilian sales first.  If you recall, the M82 was introduced in 1982 but not picked up by the military until I think 1988, 6 years of having the rifle on the market for civilian shooters to use, evaluate and improve upon.  The same was true of the AR-15 and largely continues to this day with continual improvments like optics, free floated forends. bull barrels, rail forends - all this stuff was being used by civilians before the military picked it up.   A final complaint with Robinson is that they are absolutely unwilling to listen to comments or sugestions.  Posters here have noted about being blown off by telephone calls and email messages.  The company seems to want to do its own thing and really doesn't care what the buyers think.  I believe it goes back to the company's preferential interest in getting a government contract for their products and ignoring civilians which are a secondary matter to them.   If all this is true, I say FUCK ROBINSON!  Let them learn the hard way why following the policies above is disasterous for a firearm compay.  When they finish playing with their dicks and find to their sorrow that somebody is selling a piston powered AR upper with a side mounted cocking handle and interchangable barrels or FN introduces a semi auto SCAR for civilian sales, they'll get the message in the pocketbook.  Until then, they show no desire to change. Do you always try this hard to prove you know nothing

Nice follow up for an almost 2 week old comment

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys are starting to get the message with this group.  Robinson cannot figure out what the hell it is doing wrt designing/manufacturing/marketing that gun and they will fail abysmally if they don't get their act together very soon.  The problem is that the gun as it exists today is too unfinished and is not in a condition to be marketed such that it can live up to Robinson's claims for the gun.  When I viewed production examples of the XCR at the 2005 SHOT show, I saw these problems such and the unfinished stock, ackward nature of the receiver disassembly, unavailabilty of company made 7.62x39mm magazines, etc.  This is also compounded by the fact that most people wanted to get the 6.8mm version of the gun, which still isn't even listed for sale (not even the barrel!) by Robinson.  This unpreparedness is one reason I believe the government did not select it for the SCAR contract - contrary to the bullshit about testing production examples sent to the evaluation trials without the blank firing adapters as Robinson claims.   I also believe that THE COMPANY IS HOLDING OUT FOR SOME BIG MILITARY OR POLICE CONTRACT WHICH WILL PROBABLY NEVER COME UNLESS THEY CAN DELIVER SOME RIFLES INTO CIVILIAN HANDS TO BEGIN BUILDING UP A REPUTATION FOR IT!   Ronnie Barrett was absolutely correct in saying that he could not stay in business without civilian sales first.  If you recall, the M82 was introduced in 1982 but not picked up by the military until I think 1988, 6 years of having the rifle on the market for civilian shooters to use, evaluate and improve upon.  The same was true of the AR-15 and largely continues to this day with continual improvments like optics, free floated forends. bull barrels, rail forends - all this stuff was being used by civilians before the military picked it up.   A final complaint with Robinson is that they are absolutely unwilling to listen to comments or sugestions.  Posters here have noted about being blown off by telephone calls and email messages.  The company seems to want to do its own thing and really doesn't care what the buyers think.  I believe it goes back to the company's preferential interest in getting a government contract for their products and ignoring civilians which are a secondary matter to them.   If all this is true, I say FUCK ROBINSON!  Let them learn the hard way why following the policies above is disasterous for a firearm compay.  When they finish playing with their dicks and find to their sorrow that somebody is selling a piston powered AR upper with a side mounted cocking handle and interchangable barrels or FN introduces a semi auto SCAR for civilian sales, they'll get the message in the pocketbook.  Until then, they show no desire to change. Do you always try this hard to prove you know nothing Nice follow up for an almost 2 week old comment

Not sure of the "know nothing" comment, but it sure seems MOA is taking personal opinion to a new level here.

I cannot find any meaningful examples or proof RA is incapable or is putting out junk, or does not know what they are doing.

I can assure you the delay is a better idea than rushing guns out only to have the 'details' lacking.

This place and others like it, would hammer RA into the stone age.

I'd say wait and see, as these delays are not uncommon in small arms introduction, especially w/companies other than the giants (HK, FN, Colt, etc).

Why, after all the horseshit, would they put a 1:9 barrel on that thing?

Quoted: Why, after all the horseshit, would they put a 1:9 barrel on that thing?

IIRC the 1:9 barrel outsells the rest, though this is probably because it is the most widely offered.

Well...I finally saw the XCR yesterday.  I was at the SAR show in Phoenix and RA was there showing it off.  Going through the whole barrel change out procedure and showing off the other features.  I stood around and watched for awhile and chuckled at the irony of the situation.  I cancelled my XCR order a couple of weeks ago and I was standing there with another upper in my hand from POF-USA.  I didn't have the heart to ask the guy about the famous "two more weeks" that I'd been hearing since March '05 so I quietly left.

It was nice to actually see the thing.  Who knows, maybe someday I'll get one.

CincoDeMayo

This not about the wait time. Its about a company that keeps on saying another 2 weeks, and then another 2 weeks and so on. If the thing is not ready why not just say we are waiting on parts or we are making sure we are not going to release a lemon. Anyhting but 2 more weeks or at the end of the month. I have no dog in this fight as I am not getting one. It is just a shame that a company can't be a little more forthcoming with the truth wether it be production dealys or design flaws that are holding up production.

Cinco, what is your opinion of it?  Other than the fact that you cancelled your order, did you like it, is it worth the wait?

Hmmm...That's a good question.  The guy was so busy going through his Ginsu Knives presentation that he never let anyone 'hold' it.  At least he didn't for the ten minutes that I was standing there.  I went back by a second time and it was the same story.  There were quite a few people standing around drooling though.

The barrel swap out seemed pretty straight forward.  At least easy enough for me to accomplish.  The fit and finish looked good from two feet away.

It's hard to give you much more of an opinion as I didn't get to go 'hands-on'.

My gut reaction was somewhat hohum.  Of course that could have been because I had just purchased another product.  I was expecting to be impressed by it and I wasn't.  That's not say that it wasn't functional and 'nice' looking.  Of course my opinion counts for squat and it's hard to separate my dissapointment at the run-around by RA from an objective opinion.

The whole reason for me wanting to get one was because of the 'gas' system.  I was intrigued by what they had done.  My decision to cancel came about once I realized that there were 'similar' systems out there and I just got tired of waiting 9 months for the golden two weeks to occur.  I was also nervous about replacement parts if they were needed.  Nothing against RA, I think they jumped the gun on the delivery date.

Bottom line.  I'm not heart broken that I didn't wait.

-CincoDeMayo

Ugh some people are retarded. I've been playing with XCR's for over a year now. It was designed like 5 minutes from my house, and tested at my favorite range.

The gun is taking forever for several reasons that I explained in a previous thread. Alex cut off some suppliers for shoddy work and expanded his factory and purchased more CNC machines. This delayed production as they set up and hired more people.

Alex is super paranoid about the XCR coming out and having something break and getting bad press, which could ruin the future of his company.

So the XCR gets tested till it explodes, is improved, tested to destruction, improved and so on and so on. The goal here is build a new design that can withstand any level of government testing. A "Mil Spec" weapon essentially.

As for Alex not wanted feedback, this is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Prototypes have been in local 3 gun matches for months. Call the guys at FBMG and as them how many matches they shot with the XCR. The feed back went right into the gun.

When people said they wanted a collaspable, Alex went back and started designing one. So STFU about he doesnt listen to civilian shooters

I fault Alex for one thing, and that is not setting realistic time tables he couldnt meet. As for spare parts, I am local to Robarms so I can drive over and get what I need at any time, so this doesnt concern me. What does concern me is Alex rushing and putting out a %90 weapon. I have an AR15 and plenty of time to kill. Take whatever time is needed to make the best weapon

When the XCR hits all will be forgiven because I think it's that good. Worth the wait and worth the money, just dont buy from the factory. You'll save by going through a dealer.

Alex is the last of a few American arms makers that is actually trying something new and supporting the 2nd Amendment. People are so eager to tear him down, but will support the likes of HK and Colt. Sickening

I've already posted my impressions of the XCR a dozen times. Just wait and see. I will get one and it will be SBR'ed right away.

Quoted: Ugh some people are retarded. I've been playing with XCR's for over a year now. It was designed like 5 minutes from my house, and tested at my favorite range. The gun is taking forever for several reasons that I explained in a previous thread. Alex cut off some suppliers for shoddy work and expanded his factory and purchased more CNC machines. This delayed production as they set up and hired more people. Alex is super paranoid about the XCR coming out and having something break and getting bad press, which could ruin the future of his company. So the XCR gets tested till it explodes, is improved, tested to destruction, improved and so on and so on. The goal here is build a new design that can withstand any level of government testing. A "Mil Spec" weapon essentially. As for Alex not wanted feedback, this is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Prototypes have been in local 3 gun matches for months. Call the guys at FBMG and as them how many matches they shot with the XCR. The feed back went right into the gun. When people said they wanted a collaspable, Alex went back and started designing one. So STFU about he doesnt listen to civilian shooters I fault Alex for one thing, and that is not setting realistic time tables he couldnt meet. As for spare parts, I am local to Robarms so I can drive over and get what I need at any time, so this doesnt concern me. What does concern me is Alex rushing and putting out a %90 weapon. I have an AR15 and plenty of time to kill. Take whatever time is needed to make the best weapon When the XCR hits all will be forgiven because I think it's that good. Worth the wait and worth the money, just dont buy from the factory. You'll save by going through a dealer. Alex is the last of a few American arms makers that is actually trying something new and supporting the 2nd Amendment. People are so eager to tear him down, but will support the likes of HK and Colt. Sickening I've already posted my impressions of the XCR a dozen times. Just wait and see. I will get one and it will be SBR'ed right away.

I don't think the gripe is about how long the weapon is taking to be released...it's that everyone is being told "soon".  If they don't know they should just say "We're still improving on the design....hopefully in the next few months!"  That way...nobody's pissed off and if they get done early its like a big surprise...

Quoted: Quoted: Ugh some people are retarded. I've been playing with XCR's for over a year now. It was designed like 5 minutes from my house, and tested at my favorite range. The gun is taking forever for several reasons that I explained in a previous thread. Alex cut off some suppliers for shoddy work and expanded his factory and purchased more CNC machines. This delayed production as they set up and hired more people. Alex is super paranoid about the XCR coming out and having something break and getting bad press, which could ruin the future of his company. So the XCR gets tested till it explodes, is improved, tested to destruction, improved and so on and so on. The goal here is build a new design that can withstand any level of government testing. A "Mil Spec" weapon essentially. As for Alex not wanted feedback, this is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. Prototypes have been in local 3 gun matches for months. Call the guys at FBMG and as them how many matches they shot with the XCR. The feed back went right into the gun. When people said they wanted a collaspable, Alex went back and started designing one. So STFU about he doesnt listen to civilian shooters I fault Alex for one thing, and that is not setting realistic time tables he couldnt meet. As for spare parts, I am local to Robarms so I can drive over and get what I need at any time, so this doesnt concern me. What does concern me is Alex rushing and putting out a %90 weapon. I have an AR15 and plenty of time to kill. Take whatever time is needed to make the best weapon When the XCR hits all will be forgiven because I think it's that good. Worth the wait and worth the money, just dont buy from the factory. You'll save by going through a dealer. Alex is the last of a few American arms makers that is actually trying something new and supporting the 2nd Amendment. People are so eager to tear him down, but will support the likes of HK and Colt. Sickening I've already posted my impressions of the XCR a dozen times. Just wait and see. I will get one and it will be SBR'ed right away. I don't think the gripe is about how long the weapon is taking to be released...it's that everyone is being told "soon".  If they don't know they should just say "We're still improving on the design....hopefully in the next few months!"  That way...nobody's pissed off and if they get done early its like a big surprise...

That is exactly what I was saying about it.If they have had to redo parts or get their own machines to make their own parts then why keep giving people an unrealistic release date? Just be honest and be done with it. They will earn more respect and not have so many people cancelling orders, IMHO.