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Posted: 4/9/2005 12:52:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2005 4:13:14 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 1:05:26 PM EDT
Interesting to see how many more rifles Bushmaster is building than Colt. I assume the Colt numbers are only for civilian use though. It would be cool to see the 2003 and 2004 numbers.

Link Posted: 4/9/2005 1:13:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 1:17:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2005 1:18:05 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
Thanks for the stats Troy.

I wonder how many more rifles RRA has put out in 2003 and 2004.

My first RRA lower, that I bought in October(04), is about 12,000 (serial #) less than my new one I picked up three weeks ago.......I'd say RRA is putting out a hell of a lot more than those stats now.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 1:25:24 PM EDT
I agree that it will be very interesting to see how RRA's production jumped in 2003, and then when the numbers are available, in 2004.

I think it's kind of sad that companies like Hesse can build a following and a market, and still apparently not "get it right" when it comes to ARs. From what I've read in this forum, their AR stuff should be avoided like the plague, but they apparently do a lot of business...
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 1:26:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2005 1:26:14 PM EDT by repub18]
64,000 in 1999!!!! damn were people paranoid about Y2K!
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:16:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2005 2:18:52 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:17:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2005 2:25:50 PM EDT by ED_P]
I think Bushmaster has a significant foreign/LEO sales market, at least from the shredded business
documents I got for packing with my new upper, it indicated orders going to Bogota, Colombia, Biloxi
MS Police, US Fish & Wildlife, etc... Kind of interesting fishing through the strips.
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:21:40 PM EDT
I've got one of those first 94 ASA's. It was a stripped lower and everybody has said they have problems with them but mine has awesome fit and finish.
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:23:43 PM EDT
BUSHMASTER

funny how hesse make more ARs than RRA
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:27:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2005 2:27:50 PM EDT by repub18]

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
BUSHMASTER

funny how hesse make more ARs than RRA



I bet if you looked at the numbers for 2004 and 2005 RRA have more than doubled.
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:31:14 PM EDT
are those numbers the amount sold or the amount mfgr'd? are those numbers based on complete rifles that they paid fet on? complete rifles sold? federally controlled/serial numbered components sold?
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:33:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2005 2:33:47 PM EDT by retARd]
double tap
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:33:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By retARd:
are those numbers the amount sold or the amount mfgr'd? are those numbers based on complete rifles that they paid fet on? complete rifles sold? federally controlled/serial numbered components sold?




posted aboove

Technically, the numbers are for all rifles made, so there's no way to know exactly how many were AR15s. For example, Bushmaster's stats will include the small number of M17s they make, Armalite's will include AR10s, and KAC's will include SR25s. Hesse made AKs and other types of guns that aren't even AR related. Still, these give you a good idea of what's going on.
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:41:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
It also gives you some perspective about the problems reported by BM owners vs the problems by other brands.

In 2002, Bushmaster made:

3 x Colts figures
4 x Armalite
6 x DPMS & Olympic
11 x Hesse
19 x Rock River

As such, it isn't so surprising that there are more problem reports from BMs than other brands, when looking at raw numbers. When you look at those numbers as a percentage of the market, things change dramatically.

-Troy



I'm glad that you pointed that out. Thanks for the time to sort through the stats Troy!
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 2:42:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By repub18:

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
BUSHMASTER

funny how hesse make more ARs than RRA



I bet if you looked at the numbers for 2004 and 2005 RRA have more than doubled.



i hope so
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 5:14:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2005 5:20:27 PM EDT by imposter]
I read that BATF was no longer going to release these figures. They have interpreted some privacy regulation to prohibit them from doing so.
Link Posted: 4/9/2005 5:17:39 PM EDT
Wow! I feel sorry for those 3991 suckers in '02.
Link Posted: 4/10/2005 4:08:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kisara:
Wow! I feel sorry for those 3991 suckers in '02. hr

Yeh! And 6,720 known suckers parted from their money so far....

Colt's sales look to be trending down fast. What a surprize
Link Posted: 4/10/2005 7:54:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2005 7:58:51 AM EDT
Bushmaster seems to be kicking rear.
Link Posted: 4/10/2005 8:45:05 AM EDT
Hesse beat out RRA in 2001, thats odd.
Link Posted: 4/10/2005 9:14:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/10/2005 4:39:31 PM EDT
The figure I'd love to know (though I appreciate the graph Troy made) is how many
US households own at least one AR-15, AK-47, FAL, or other "evil" weapon.

That's a tough figure to come up with as most people who have 1, eventually have more,
though I'd love to know that X million households have at least one Assault type weapon
in their home.

Link Posted: 4/10/2005 5:19:36 PM EDT
I can't wait to see the numbers for 2004. When the AWB died, I bet everyone and their mother went out and bought an AR just because they could
Link Posted: 4/10/2005 5:35:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:
I can't wait to see the numbers for 2004. When the AWB died, I bet everyone and their mother went out and bought an AR just because they could



My dealer was saying that the day the ban ended something like 50 people placed orders with him for ARs just in that one day.

For a guy that only sells a 15-20 rifles a month out of his home, thats a big deal.
Link Posted: 4/11/2005 9:44:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2005 6:10:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sydney7629:
I can't wait to see the numbers for 2004. When the AWB died, I bet everyone and their mother went out and bought an AR just because they could



A more interesting stat that I'd like to see is how many ARs were manufactured before 9-13-94, and how many were manufactured during the ban. I have heard that post-ban production was up by 900%. It seems that Feinstein and Schumer put a lot of weapons "on the street" with their ban.
Link Posted: 4/11/2005 6:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2005 6:20:21 PM EDT by JoseyWales]
400,000+ upto 2002. Makes me verry happy. That means the gov' will never be able to get them all. It would cost them at least 300,000 X 900 to pay fair market value to get just them back for a buy back program in a nationwide confiscation (plus body count). I figure, based on how Gov't costs go, it would be $540MM just for AR's

Link Posted: 4/11/2005 6:36:11 PM EDT
01 was a big year for PWA
Link Posted: 4/11/2005 10:49:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By netwt12:
01 was a big year for PWA



Yea, they overextended themselves in '01 and had to trim back for '02.


Link Posted: 4/11/2005 10:56:12 PM EDT
good info.

so... you were just bored and surfing the atf.gov?

Link Posted: 4/12/2005 10:25:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2005 5:37:20 PM EDT
My RRA lower from christmas that I got jan 2004 has a ser# starting in the 24,000 range.
Link Posted: 4/20/2005 7:36:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By model927:
My RRA lower from christmas that I got jan 2004 has a ser# starting in the 24,000 range.



I'll add on to this.

My new-logo RRA lower I got in October (within a month of them switching to the new logo) is in the 32,XXX range.

My second new-logo RRA lower I got was towards the end of February (from the head armorer at RRA) is in the 45,XXX range.

So that means about 13,000 lowers in about 4 months time. Not bad, in my opinion.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 5:22:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2005 11:06:01 PM EDT
My RRA rifle that I got last december has a SN of 37000 something.
Link Posted: 4/23/2005 10:09:48 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 4/27/2005 11:58:40 PM EDT
Total for the 5yr period:

448,905. About half a million evil rifles in half of the AWB years.
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 7:47:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2005 7:47:37 AM EDT by green-grizzly]
Maybe my ASA lower will become a collectors item!
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 11:09:49 AM EDT
Bushmaster spiked with ~65K rifles in 1999. Remember the spate of purple upeers adn cocked FSBs during that period? When quantity outstrips quality, word gets out. It's good to see that quality and quantity are back on equla footing at Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 11:20:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/3/2005 11:21:18 AM EDT by woodbutcher223308]
Yea RRA , , We need all the help we can get here in ILLINOIS, Yae Armalite too . Yea for every Producer and related firearms dealer and seller, Cept m/a ? In IL.

Yeah I stopped posting them all. You get the picture in this flat land.


Thanks Troy.
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 1:53:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 1:58:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
The situation then, much like today, is more an issue with supplies and subcontractor availability. Even though BM will sell more rifles than anyone else again this year, they are losing sales because they can't get enough materials to meet the demand, and their subcontractors are busy with priority government work to give them additional output.

-Troy

I agree with your assessment, Troy. In my industry, we are suffering the same problem. Our current projected sales outstrip our projected access to materials and key subcontractors, primarily structural steel fabricators. Furthermore, our current workload is such that we cannot always devote our full attention to the quality we are getting out of our suppliers and subcontractors. In the long term, the answer is to staff up, but in the near term (as BM experienced in 2000) we just have to do the best we can during the growing pains.

BTW, ever notice that "growing pains" sounds a lot like "groin pains"? It's not coincidence! Having too much work for your current staff to handle is like a kick in the nutsack!
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 4:48:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lu380:
A more interesting stat that I'd like to see is how many ARs were manufactured before 9-13-94, and how many were manufactured during the ban. I have heard that post-ban production was up by 900%. It seems that Feinstein and Schumer put a lot of weapons "on the street" with their ban.



This was done on the old ar15-l email list, back around 99 or so. ISTR the results showed multiple times more ARs manufactured in the first 5 years of the ban than in all the years prior (start of civilian sales 196*cough* through 1994). I sure would like to see those stats again.
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 4:55:29 PM EDT
Nice info Troy. Much appreciated.
Link Posted: 5/3/2005 10:07:08 PM EDT
Wow ASA built that bad a reputation on less than 700 rifles... hard to believe, I live in Phoenix so I just thought they sold more than that...
Link Posted: 5/4/2005 11:54:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 12:23:20 AM EDT
damn look at RRA's 2300 to 14000 rofl, no wonder they couldn't keep up with demand.
Link Posted: 5/9/2005 6:13:50 PM EDT
i believe this data is based on payment of the making tax for completed rifles


http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2000.pdf
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2001.pdf
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2002.pdf
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/afmer/afmer2003.pdf

ANNUAL FIREARMS MANUFACTURING AND EXPORT REPORT
Y2000
# RIFLEs MFG -----LICENSE NAME

304395 -------------STURM RUGER & CO INC
287418 -------------THE MARLIN FIREARMS CO
190018 -------------REMINGTON ARMS CO, INC
158136 -------------SAVAGE ARMS, INC
127922 -------------WRIGHT PRODUCTS
116616 -------------US REPEATING ARMS COMPANY
61387 ---------------ARGUS PUBLICATIONS INC
60231 ---------------REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, INC
57753 ---------------H & R 1871 INC NEW ENGLAND FIREARMS CO
39932 ---------------BUSHMASTER FIREARMS BFI/QUALITY PARTS CO
29950 ---------------COLT'S MANUFACTURING CO INC
19468 ---------------CENTURY ARMS INC
17182 ---------------THOMPSON CENTER ARMS CO INC
12390 ---------------BEEMILLER INC
11846 ---------------KEYSTONE SPORTING ARMS INC
9506 ----------------SPRINGFIELD INC
8475 ----------------ARMALITE INC
7965 ----------------ACROMETAL COMPANIES, INC
5869 ----------------DEFENSE PROCUREMENT MFG SERVICES INC
Link Posted: 5/9/2005 8:16:04 PM EDT
why does DPMS also have 9679 firearms in the MISC. FIREARMS MANUFACTURED IN 2003 category?
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