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Posted: 1/19/2005 4:41:02 AM EDT
I believe the simplest way is to remove the disconnector from the trigger and either grind off the rear leg that the selector cam engages in full auto, or replace it with a semiauto disconnector. You can also replace the trigger with a semiauto trigger along with that. Also you can replace the full auto selector with a semiauto selector, either in conjunction with the above or by itself. The modifications are cheap, easy, reversable and safe.  Lonny EDIT: This does NOT make the weapon "LEGALLY" semiauto, just functionally. Also for civil liability, you might want to have the modifications done by a certified armorer. |
We got M16s from the Govt several years ago, but cannot permanantly modify the weapons. Is there a drop-in sear block that we can use? Or does the trigger group have to be changed? What is the best (and cheapest) way to convert from full to semi? I get different answers from different people, but you AR Gods will give me the right answer...Thanks|
You can do a lot of things to make a M16 into an AR15. For liabilities sake and the easiest thing is to replace the trigger kit. New hammer, trigger, disconnector and safety. To be honest I don’t want you having full auto either. Full auto works great if you need to suppress a large number of people or in the case of a pistol calibers you can dump three rounds into each target. If your just going into a crack house three well placed rounds will serve you better than a burst from a 5.56mm rifle. |
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Put in current production Colt carrier. If you cant trip the auto sear no full auto. Also replace the hammer, trigger, and disconter with ar-15 parts. that will make them semi only. 3 rounds of 5.56 TAP ammo is better than 3 of 9mm and overpenteration will be less with the 5.56. |
ROADKING4, take a closer look at what you said. You're dept. doesn't have AR's, you have MACHINE GUNS in the eyes of ATF. I don't want LEO's having machine guns either. I know a lot of LEO's that don't have to proper responsibility to handle something like that. I think the best route is to remove the M16 trigger group and install an AR trigger group. I removes any "humam error factors" after the fact like some gung-ho "Officer Tackleberry" from converting it back. The Chief should keep the parts stored in a secure location though, in case he ever wants to transfer them to another Dept. Keep in mind though, even if you convert them to semi's, the ATF will still consider them MG's since they are registered that way. |
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There is a plate that mounts on a M16 type rifle that does not allow the selector to go to the AUTO position, you can get them from the same place they got thier M16A1 rifles: tri.army.mil/LC/CS/1122/List%20of%20Available%20Weapons.htm |
The plate that was mentioned above works great, My Natl Guard unit in California had one on every rifle. all you have to do is unscrew the pistol grip ( becarefull not to lose the spring for the selector) and slip it on and rescrew the pistol grip back into position. BTW: big +1 to your chief. |
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Not sure if this is what you want, but there are selector blocking devices that install between the pistol grip and the reciever. They extend up and prevent the selector from going to auto. I had four of them, but had absolutely no need for them, so I sold them. While this is not a permanent mod, it would seem that it could fit your needs. Edited to add: If I still have the pics at home, I'll post them for you. I have no idea where to get them, though. Oh, Ekie already got you the info. |
This looks exactly like what we need, something simple and cost effective...Thanks |
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yes it will....It goes between the Pistol grip and the receiver on the outside of the firearm. Think flat ring that fits between the top of the pistol grip, and the receiver, that has a little tab that will not let you move your selector to the AUTO position. |
| You can see the removal and installation procedures for the selector block in TM 9-1005-319-23&P pages 4-2 thru 4-5. TM available here TM 9-1005-319-23&P |
I'll beat that.. I'll give them 5 brand new AR15 carbines, for each M16  It sucks that your dept can't sell them.. |
| The easiest fix is to take out the full auto selector and replace it with a ar-15 selector. An AR selector does not have the lug on it that pushes the disconnector down when in the auto position. With out holding the disconnector back there can be no full auto fire. |
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As to whether or not LEOs should have selective fire, I think there is a time when it is appropriate, the North Hollywood shootout incident was one of these, short controlled bursts could have rapidly defused the situation instead of letting it spill into the streets and endanger citizens. I know many will say semi-auto fire is adequate, but I think every department's SWAT team should have a few M16s and be trained to use them for etxtreme emergencies. Just my opinion that at no time should LE find themselves outgunned by the Perpetrators. AFAIK you won't see BATF or DOE using semi-auto AR15s, in general. It's a sad day when the criminals have better hardware than LE, IMHO. ROADKING4, good luck with your conversions, but sorry to hear it. |
I disagree I think it would have caused more problems especially as few officers have the training. A couple of well placed semi-auto shots from a rifle would have done the trick just as easily with no chance of the muzzle walking high and stray rounds going down range. |
But if they were properly trained, and you had a different scenario with say 6 tangos or so, with FA weapons, in a building complex, you don't agree that a few highly trained LEOs with say FA P90s or Colt commandos would merit selective fire? with the North Hollywood, they were out in the open, but what if it was room clearing type situation? |
Like I said, I dont have a problem converting them, (I can be just as proficient taking out a bad guy on semi), I just want to get the damn things back out to the troops!!! Lets face it, anything could happen anywhere, and I just want the best tools to do the job. What the hell is a SWAT team w/o ARs!!!! By the way, I am FBI SWAT certified, 17 yr Sgt with the PD, and have prior military (Army MP). Im not some gung-ho rookie that should not be trusted with a long gun... |
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I think Forest would agree with you, _DR, that there ARE times that full-auto would have a place for a SWAT officer. But I have to agree with him that the North Hollywood Bank Robbery wasn't one of them. The range was too far for full auto to be either effective or safe. But other situations could certainly warrant it's use. I would agree that the simplest fix would be to simply change the selector lever for a semi-auto selector. If that's no enough to satisfy the department, then changing the entire fire control group would be my next suggestion (no need to modify the bolt carrier at all). Obviously, the FA FCG parts would need to be retained and stored. -Troy |
Yep - Did I mention Troy has an implant that allows him to read my mind? Edited to Add: DR_ are you trained in full-auto useage? Because if there are 3 Tangos or 6 Tangos I don't see the need to go to full-auto for the following reasons: 1) You are accountable for every round fired. 2) One does not 'spray' an area with full-auto fire and hope the rounds hit. Full auto is used in bursts to increase damage to a specific Tango. 3) Well aimed single 5.56 shots are just as (or more so) effective than 9mm sub-guns firing bursts. Are there times when full-auto by SWAT is warrented? Yes IMHO these are the times: 1) When their SWAT team keeps the 9mm sub-guns instead of upgrading to 5.56 carbines. 2) When you know/suspect the Tangos are on drugs - you need the increase in dammage to insure they go down fast. 3) When there is a massive violent riot and they are using crew served weapons to lay down grazing fire to prevent the crowd from advancing. 4) Use of crew served weapons from a Police boat to a fleeing criminals boat. I'm not so comfortable with the SWAT guys going in and laying down supressive fire by spraying the room. It works for Soldiers and Marines in a war zone - but stray rounds from hyperactive carbines are not a good thing to let loose in a US city. |
Yes, but in military usage only. I have done quite a bit of MOUT training also, but no HRT or LE type work, so that is my perspective. Having said that I thought clearing a room would be similar regardless, if there were no known hostages. We always breached, grenaded (percussion or frag) and cleared on FA or burst upon entry. The idea was that if there were armed individuals in the room to be cleared, by the time you searched for and acquired a target to nail on semi-auto, you would be hit by a waiting hostile, since he would have a much smaller area to cover (doorway). This as opposed to FA or burst fire in an arc on entry of the room, which would cover a larger area quickly. A hostile hiding behind significant cover such as a partial wall or in a larger room could weather the effects of a percussion grenade and be ready to return fire. I realize it takes hard training and good control to keep rounds low and deadly on FA, at close range, but it can be done. Obviously a situation with known non-hostiles would be different, but we never trained for that. Certainly, because of the fact that I have no LE or HRT training, I would tend to defer to the opinions of those who do have this experience when it comes to non-military tactical operations. One thing doesn't make sense to me though, a reference was made to 9mm being more appropriate on FA than 5.56mm, yet for indoors use, most of the penetration tests I have read seem to show 9mm as more likely to penetrate interior walls than 5.56mm, and hold a true trajectory. So why would 9mm be more appropriate on FA than 5.56mm? |
I thought so. LEO room clearing is a bit different than the military's "drop in a frag and hose the room down" method.
Good question - it has to do with terminal performance. 9mm from a SMG (or a rifle for that matter) is still a 9mm handgun round. Handgun rounds in general have poor terminal performance (epsecially when compared to rifle type rounds). You NEED the extra 2-3 rounds on the target to increase the dammage so the Tango will stop his aggesive actions. You can do the same thing with a single shot or double tap of rifle. The tradeoff - as you noted - is that 9mms will more likely overpenetrate the walls should you miss (which is more likely with a full-auto buzz gun). |
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