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11/17/2004 7:17:59 AM EDT
Just some info you floks may find interesting:
I think I started something here in the middle of Wyoming.
I was given an AR 16" carbine by a friend a few months ago.  I have worked with it and am getting some good accuracy from it.  
  Anyway, several of my friends are now putting ARs togather because they liked mine.  They come to me as the "expert" (even though I don't know much other than what I have read in the books I have bought).  I have been a gunsmith for 34 years, but I didn't work on ARs until about 9 months ago.
  To make the point,  I have two friends that put togather ARs with Model 1 "varmint parts"   16" stainless fluted barrels, and Cav arms lowers.  They were here at my shop and range yesterday, and we were at the loading bench tring different loads in them
  Make no mistake boys...........these things will shoot.  They both shot several groups of under 1/2" at 100 yards.  If You buy these uppers from M 1,  try H335, IMR 4895, and 748 powders.  The best bullets were Hornady 68 grain Match, Hornady 55 grain SX, and Sierra 55 grain B.T,S.P  
The guns have 1-9 twist barrels and 223 chambers.  The best  Don's gun did was 5 shots into .397" and the best Bob's did was 6 shots into .403" at 100 yeard.   I also shot my Bushie with these loads and I got under an inch every time, with several 5 or 6 shot groups going under 3/4.  I shot 3 groups with it of only 3 shots each that went under .450.  This is with their M-4 chromed barrel.  (It used to only hold about 2- 2 1/2 at 100 yds, but I lapped it and did a little magic to it about 6 months ago, and it's the reason that my friends now are taking the AR seriously as varment guns. )  It's not as accurate as the M 1 varment guns, but it's not far behind.    
 I am going to make up another AR with a Cav arms lower, and a super light barrel in the next week for myself.  I hope to get a carbine that's only about 6 3/4 pounds, loaded and scoped.  I'll let you all know how it does in the next 2 weeks or so
  More later.................................
11/17/2004 9:17:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Thanks for the post, I like W-748 for my pet .223 loads.  I too see groups in the .700 to .400 range regulary.  Much better than I thought for a "home built" varmint AR-15.
11/19/2004 3:23:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Well now I'm even more impressed.
I just finished putting togather a light carbine.  I used a Cav arms lower and an upper from M-1 with the light weight barrel, with a cheepo Tasco 4x scope on Weaver "tunnel rings"  The whole thing weighs 6 3/4 pounds empty, and 7 pounds 3 ozloaded.  Used a R.R. match trigger.

I used the load from the other guns that shot so good.   24.3 gr IMR 4895 with a Hornady 68 gr match bullet.
 WIth this little light carbing I just shot a 5 shot groupe at 100 yds of 1 1/10 inch.  I believe I can tighten that up a little with some careful handloads.  
Does anyone else have any input?  I can't get over how well these little guns can shoot.  This one (and every one I have worked with so far)  has a free float tube, and is scoped.    I will be playing with H335 and BLC2  powedr,  and verious bullest in the next week.  I'll post the results.
:) :) :)
11/19/2004 4:11:30 PM EDT
[#3]
That is one sweet carbine you've got there. I've been shooting a factory Bushy varminter with a jewell 2 stage trigger topped with a  Bushnell 6x18x50AO scope. I can always get 2 out of 5 rounds to go thru one hole, but then, I guess I must get excited to see this and choke cause the remaining 3 rounds spread out. My groups have been down to .375" or up to .750" . This is using either Hornady or Sierra 69gr. bthp, BHA match brass,WSR primers with 25.0 gr. of Varget pushing it and the bullet backed off by .005". This is my first AR and I cant wait to build a carbine. By the way I didn't have much luck developing a load using BL-2. The bullet seating seemed to make more of an accuracy change than did a couple of 1/10th of powder.

And finally if any one has suggestions or tecquniques on how I can settel down and stop choking the shot Im all ears. hippie.gif
11/19/2004 4:25:09 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm with you guys , they are accurate alright.

I have really just got into the ar game lately. I have been shooting various ragged out old m-16's at my unit and they still shoot great,so I was kind of wanting one for the longest time.

I broke down about two months ago and bought a bushy carbine and had the armorer at the facility I was at build it up for me. Nothing special, a bushy lower,16" heavy barrel,A2 bird cage fs,and he did a 5 min trigger job on it and mounted a buis and an aimpoint. The other day I swapped out the ace stock for a Vltor and took it to the range.

The up tight range I was at down in FL really sucked, but I made the best of it. There was no rapid fire allowed and way too many people, so I just put a target out at the 50yd line and went thrue a couple 30 rd mags off a solid bench rest while I was waiting for my buddy. all things consitered a 4 min dot on a 100yd rifle target is far from what you want off the bench ,but  that thing cut a hole in the center of the target about 1.5"with a few pulled shots, I think I put  90 shots through there before the cease fire and packing it up. Hot as heck barrel and very little time between shots. I think a scope and good bench techniques would produce some good groups.

It is a cqb set up for sure , but it was nice to see that this plane jane carbine was capable of some decent accuracy.  I think I smell a varminter  in my future.

see ya

11/19/2004 4:53:57 PM EDT
[#5]
I know people get tired of this pic but I just got my first AR together and working on my groups.  I got to show it off!! It is a Megga upper and lower with a Krieger Varmatch barrel. This was with Winchester 45 grain varmint rounds.  With a Jewell trigger on the way I think I can do a little better. Having a blast so far and really looking forward to working up some reloads. I have reloaded a bunch for skeet shooting and this will be a first for rifle.  I like thes threads that give me usefull info about what loads are working etc. The "WOOOOHOOOO I got a new Grip! threads get a little old.
11/19/2004 8:13:49 PM EDT
[#6]
try some accurate 2015 BR behind a sierra 52gr HPBT.  You'll be surprised.   Shoot for about 3000 FPS.
11/22/2004 3:35:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Newest up-date  hootingCase prep seems to be very important to get real accuracy, but not to the point of neck reaming or turning.  I am sure that doing so would tighten the groups up even more, but I am shooting a 4X scope, and it has a 1/2 cross hair stadia, so I can't see the need to tighten up much more than 3/4" at 100 yards.   I could not be happier with this little gun.  My hat's off to the floks at M-1.  They have been good to me.  I have only had a few problems with their stuff

Problem #1 is that who ever is making their charging handles isn't making them correctly.  The front hook is too short in some cases, (.530" tall.  It should be .570" tall)  and it doesn't reach the charging handle sholder in the bolt carrier.  When it over rides the bolt carrier, it will jam against the cam pin, which keeps the bolt from un-locking all the way.  I had to send 3 of them back to M-1 for replacement

#2 is that theit tactical slings are not put togather correctly, and no one there knows anything about them.  There are NO instructions in the bags they come in.  At first I thought I just didn't understand how to put them on, but I now have had several AR experts come to my shop and look at them.  All have agreed that they are not sewn togather correctly.  They can't be put on the butt of the gun as they are.  
So a word to the wise.........DON'T BUY THEIR SLING!!!   I made 4 calls to them today, and NO ONE knows how to do it.  Even their Tec., department couldn't tell me how they work.  I can only assume that they are buying them from a vendor that doesn't know what the heck He's doing, and the folks at M-1 never really looked at them.  They just sold them.  After trying for 4 days, and talking to 6 men here, and 4 men and women at M-1,  all we can determin is that they don't work at all.  Who ever sews the butt cuff togather did not put a buckle where they should be one, and there is "pile" but no "hook" on the velcro where it's suposed to join togather.

Ok....nuff bitching.

Over-all M-1 has been great, and their products have beeen most satisfying.   I can forgive the charging handles if they will just replace them, or credit me with the amount they cost,  for my next order (OH YES  there will be more orders coming soon)  I can buy the charging handles from Brownells, and be a happy camper, and I can get Tac. Slings from a lot of other places.
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