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Posted: 12/18/2003 3:30:38 PM EDT
Hi People I am a complete newbie and am considering my first AR. My primary use will be home/personal defense as well as some fun on the target range. I have read that a shotgun is a good choice for home defense due to it's lack of penetrating power. (ie won't go through walls etc and harm family members) should this be a major concern with the AR? I do have young children in my home. I feel however that the AR is more versatile and frankly more fun :-) So with my purpose in mind I am wondering what type of AR would be good for me. Cost is a factor but I would rather save a little longer and get a gun that will last..and be a good friend if/when I need it. There are so many configurations and typs that I am unsure what would be good for me. I have read through many posts and found many advising Kits/build yourself but as I don't have much build experience with firearms I don't feel comfortable going that way at first.
I have gotten the msg. and intend to go with one of the firearms from CRAB. So any input anyone may have is more then welcome. I would like to say that AR15.com is an awesome resource and the folks here seem great! Thanks Rick
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 3:45:20 PM EDT by gus]
Welcome aboard! Good to see you already know it will be your "first"! Anyway, I would recommend a 16" carbine from any of the major companies. I'm partial to Bushmaster, Colt, and Armalite, not necessarily in that order. Any of those brands are top notch. The shorter barrel of a carbine makes it easier to wield in the confines of a house. Don't worry so much about accessories at first - get some trigger time instead. Familiarity and skill are things you should develop first, IMHO. Edited to add - some professional training would be a good investment as well, especially if you're a complete newbie. Better to learn that way than the hard way!
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:53:48 PM EDT
dpms has good products for good prices... my first (and only) AR is a DPMS
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 3:56:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 7point62_AssAssin: dpms has good products for good prices... my first (and only) AR is a DPMS
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Yep - DPMS is good stuff too. My brother has an old DPMS that has been through hell, with nary a problem.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:04:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 4:08:07 PM EDT by IndianChris]
Hey - I'm anxious to expand my arms collections as well. Right now I own a Win. Model 94 but would like to purchase an AR-15. I just checked DPMS. Are their prices reasonable? Quality? Thanks! Added- Thanks for the answer gus - we must've been posting at the same time.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 4:20:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 4:22:49 PM EDT by alpo]
Welcome aboard, Rick36. Gus about said it all. My first was a Bushmaster. All of the four brands mentioned are good quality ARs. edited to add: Also a welcome aboard to IndianChris, too.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 5:25:08 PM EDT
welcome to both of you! i only have experiances with Bushmaster, and i cant say a bad thing about them! welcome to the hobby!
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:07:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 6:12:44 PM EDT by catman]
just take care of it. whatever you get. i'm doing a 32 year test on one of my SP1's so far so good.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 6:44:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 6:46:33 PM EDT by Stratohopper]
Although you've already decided on the AR rather than shotgun, here's a forum discussion that will probably set your mind at rest regarding possible overpenetration of projectiles. [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=175115]The general consensus is that shotgun pellets can go too far, while the .223 will practically disintegrate in the walls.[/url] While it's also linked in the above discussion, here's the [url=http://www.ammo-oracle.com/]ammo oracle[/url]. Enjoy your new investment.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 7:52:28 PM EDT
I personally would make sure I was buying a rifle which is chambered in 5.56 rather than the .223 A.223 chambered rifle limits your ammo buying just a bit... Not that it is a big deal but just a thought..
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:07:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/18/2003 8:09:18 PM EDT by Stratohopper]
Bushmaster is 5.56mm chambered. [:D] edited for smiley code.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:15:46 PM EDT
Welcome to your new addiction. We all know just how much fun you'll have with it. Read alot of the posts on this board before making your purchase, and you can save yourself alot of coin ! If you are lucky you won't have to spend thousands of wasted dollers before you own the weapon thats right for you. ( like alot of us have done ) Colt ( if you can afford it ) Bushmaster makes a great rifle. The DPMS products sold by CMMG on these boards seem to be high quality. For the need you're interested in, a carbine sounds best. 16in., or 14.5in. M4 type ( M4's can become a bigtime love ) Whatever you decide, take your time, and do your research. ( can't wait to see you asking about what sighting system go with ) KZ
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:40:46 PM EDT
I'm not going to lie to you. I think an AR would make a very ideal home defense weapon but there are a few important reasons why I choose a 12ga instead. For one people do not choose a shotgun because of lack of penetrating ability..............they choose a shotgun because it works, period. It is simple, reliable and has an incredible amount of stopping power at close range. You also have to remember we live in a world that is very sympathetic to the criminal element for some sick reason. Showing a jury of people the weapon that was used to wound or kill an intruder can backfire on you big time. That's if it ever came to that, which it has before. To an ignorant person an AR15 looks evil and therefore it makes you look evil giving you less of a chance to have your name cleared. Also if you're going to buy a postban weapon you will not be able to use a flash suppressor and let me tell you the flash from a 16" barrel with hot M193 is something amazing (even in broad daylight). At night in a dark house it would definitely blind you. A shotgun still has a muzzle flash but from my experiments it is no where near as blinding as an AR15 with 16" or shorter barrel. The downsides to a shotgun are greater recoil, not as compact and less ammo capacity. The reasons to use one for defense though far outweigh the downsides IMHO. I'm not telling you to not buy an AR because it will be the finest and most addictive rifle you ever own but buy it for the fun of it instead or in the ultra rare occasion that society breaks down and you are forced to fight on the street it would be nice to have one. I know some of you guys on this board fantasize about this very senario (haha). Anyway, enough of my opinion. Good luck, have fun, and above all be safe.
Link Posted: 12/18/2003 8:58:39 PM EDT
I agree with 00-Buckshot to a degree. If you are looking for a self defence weapon in which you will only be using indoors, than the shotgun is a better choice than an AR. If you plan on taking even one step outdoors, and fighting an enemy across the street, up the road, in the field close to your home, or in a passing vehicle, I think the AR is a better choice. If you look at the studies, alot of people believe that shotguns will do things that they really won't. KZ
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 9:54:50 AM EDT
Another thing that I forgot to include that has been stated by many others on this board is if you have to shoot an intruder the weapon you use is most likely going to be taken from you by the police who respond to the scene. If you truly killed in self defense (justifiable homicide) then you will probably get it back but who knows what the condition of it will be when you do. The point being I would rather hand over my $250 Winchester 1300 than my $1400 AR.
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:21:40 PM EDT
Welcome Guy's! All the info the previous guy's are giving I agree with. If I was starting over now I would start with a RRA or a Bushy.IMO
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 1:10:48 PM EDT
Thanks for the imput people. 00_Buckshot you bring up some great points on the pros and cons of AR VS Shotgun for home defence issue. I guess I will have to think about it... I have a shotgun in the house and no AR :-( so for now, that is that. I have found the web site on North Carolina gun law but am having trouble finding anything about law concerning what I can and can not do in case of home intrusion. Can I shoot the SOB or not? I would also like to say thanks for the warm welcome from the folks here at AR15.com Rick
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 1:29:01 PM EDT
Hey Rick36 - I use a shotgun for home defense too, but that doesn't change the fact that you NEED an AR15...[}:D] Just kidding!! Good luck!
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