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Posted: 11/18/2003 12:00:24 PM EDT
I am starting to get that feeling. The urge to buy a newie rifle. The SEBR carbine is real sexy and I am just about ready to make a commitment... but I haven't been able to find magazines for it. The ones I have found are very costly and out of stock. A friend has a couple of FALs he built as kits and I think the use the M14 mag. I qualified with the M14 in the U.S.M.C. back in 72, but want a modern 7.62 platform. What is up with AR10 mags?
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:23:12 PM EDT
FALs use FAL magazines (which are very inexpensive BTW). There are AR-10s that take orginal AR-10 magazines (very costly - or you have to use post-ban 10 rounders) and there are AR-10s that use modified M14 magazines moderately expensive. Of course you can get an M1A which is the civilian version of the M14. All three have their advantages. If I wanted the most accurate I'd probably take the AR-10. If I wanted a good 'weapon' platform I like the FAL (especially with its cheap magazines). The M1A is a kind of in-between. They can be very accurate with the right work (more accurate than the FAL), but they are tough and reliable like the FAL. Their biggest issue is cost (both in parts and magazines). If you know and like the M14 then get the M1A, if you want something a bit more modern then get the FAL. If you want to hunt varmints with .308 (or one of the other cartridges based off .308) then go with the AR-10.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 12:29:45 PM EDT
I thought the M1A is the civilian version of the M21..
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 2:07:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tugboat: I am starting to get that feeling. The urge to buy a newie rifle. The SEBR carbine is real sexy and I am just about ready to make a commitment... but I haven't been able to find magazines for it. The ones I have found are very costly and out of stock. A friend has a couple of FALs he built as kits and I think the use the M14 mag. I qualified with the M14 in the U.S.M.C. back in 72, but want a modern 7.62 platform. What is up with AR10 mags?
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tugboat, check the Equipment Exchange here on AR15.com for AR-10 magazines. I just don't believe we'll see an AR-10 at $1240 for the carbine and $1260 for the rifle again. (These are the 'shipped' prices for the SEBR AR-10's.) One of my brothers is also a former Marine. Went through bootcamp with the M-14 and was handed an M-16 when he hit Vietnam ! 5sub
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 3:39:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the responses... sure wish the AR10 had 20/30 round clips available. Anyone know a good place to get assembled FALs? Before I start a project of building a kit, I would like to see what is availble. I have seen the M14 replicas at gun shows. I like the FAL because it has more optional equipment flexability and it isn't so archaic. thks
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 3:41:50 PM EDT
Go with the FAL... adjustable gas system, cheap mags, very reliable, reasonably accurate in battle form (tack driver if you have the $s), breaks down with no tools, definitely battle proven. Plus you can get just about whatever you want, from free floating bull barrel target rifles to 16" carbines and great camo options. Scot
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:19:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 4:20:48 PM EDT by watertower]
You can get 20 round mags for the AR10. As mentioned above, they are converted M14/M1A mags. Once converted they will work in the AR10 and the M1A. They aren't cheap, but they are out there. In fact, Quantico Arms has some right now. I've been drowling over an M1A recently. I've already got the AR platform, because its cheap to shoot and I like the platform. But, there is definitely something about the M1A that just kicks ass! Scott Wanted to add, I don't yet have an M1A. Today I decided that will be the next rifle purchase, once my AR's are to the level I want them.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:22:52 PM EDT
M1A, I love mine and I'm going back into hiding now. Danny
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:33:10 PM EDT
maybe I am wrong about the FAL having an advantage over the M14 as a more modern rifle. they seem to be equally matched there though I have seen pictures of FALs with modern picatiny rails and optics. the cost of assembled rifles are over the top from what I have found so far though.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:39:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 7point62_AssAssin: I thought the M1A is the civilian version of the M21..
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I think the M21 is the sniper rifle version of the M14.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 4:47:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warhorse:
Originally Posted By 7point62_AssAssin: I thought the M1A is the civilian version of the M21..
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I think the M21 is the sniper rifle version of the M14.
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I agree. Howdy warhorse! Danny
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:20:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/18/2003 5:22:33 PM EDT by warhorse]
Back at ya Minuteman. I finally found a home for that upper. Got a Colt green label, and I love it. Oh yeah, to keep in with the topic, I'd go with the M1A. Springfield all the way.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:26:06 PM EDT
I would go AR10 because I already have an M14 clone and it would be just a matter of having the mags I have modified to fit the AR10 then I would have 2 rifles that take the same mag and 70% parts commonality with my ARs.But if I didnt already have a .308 battle rifle I would go for the FAL,more prolific rifle,cheaper mags and its still in service around the world,plenty of parts.
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 5:37:16 PM EDT
AR10! Better in most every way that I have experienced. To get an M1A to shoot as well as an AR10, ya gotta spend a lot more money, on it's basic 1930's design version of an M14. A real M14 will shoot better than an M1A. The Fal will never shoot as well as an AR10 or M14, no matter what ya do. IMO. Good shootin, Jack
Link Posted: 11/18/2003 6:48:27 PM EDT
All 3 are excellant platforms. I believe the AR10 is one of the best systems especially for accuracy and is a pussy cat to shoot. I have an AR10A4 that shoots 1/2"-3/4" groups all day with out a Free float tube and with a Bi-pod attached to standard handguards. However that being said, In this day and Time If I were buying only one Id have to go with a FAL. The quality of the Guns being built buy DSA is excellant. STG58 Kit guns built on their receivers go for under $950.00. The quality and reliability is excellant and the ability to adjust the gas system gives it great versatility for different ammo, although I rarely adjust mine. I have a DSA STG and an Imbel Kit built on an Imbel Gear logo receiver. Both guns shoot amazingly well and are VERY Accurate. I spent $550.00 building the "Gear logo" Imbel and about $750.00 on the DSA Built STG58. Now the Kicker In a day when M1A mags run $35.00 to $50.00 each and AR10 Mags run $60.00 Each, FAL mags are going for about $6.00 each yes $6.00 each for Styer, Belgium, Imbel etc etc. You can stock up for an eternity for a couple hundred bucks if you like. BTW FAL mags are one of the most reliable mags ever made I have shot thousands of round through "Beat- The - heck - up" mags and rarely have a malfunction. Go to the FALfiles.com and check them out. If you want High end and you dont mind the Bucks Go AR10 If you can Only have one and dont want to sink a fortune on Mags Go FAL. BTW I have to disagree about FAL Accuracy, DSA is putting out some absolutely, wonderfully, accurate Rifles. Especially since the tack drivers have their free float tubes, check them out. chuck
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 6:06:22 PM EDT
As fas as my collection goes, the AR-10 gets more use. I was a HUGE G3 fan. I have had all four battle rifles at one point. I have sold off my two G3s(preban) and a post ban M1A. I have still kept my FAL because I do like it. The AR-10 has been 100% reliable to date. I have used only milsurp ammo and factory hicaps plus converts too. I can only say the same for the G3. I have had FTE and FTF with the M1A(+ popped off op rod) and FAL. I do plan on owning another M1A one day simply because she is pretty and a hell of a shooter. The AR-10 does it all for me because it's reliable and accurate, two most important features IMO! Plus she is the MOST ergonomic design out there. AR-10 mags are not that much more expensive that "good" used M14 mags if you know how to go about it. I for one would NOT pay the money that DSA is asking for NEW FALs. I know they are of good quality and all but with so many new parts kits out there it seems like throwing money away. I think one would be better off sending a new or like new parts kit and rec off to a good FAL smith. The attention to detail is going to be better than any factory built gun...period. Plus you should come out cheaper too!!
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:21:14 PM EDT
AR-10! If you want long range accuracy and don't mind a little more weight, go with the (T) model. I punched a .45 moa 5 shot last weekend with the carbine. If you want a blaster that is not picky on ammo, the A4.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:23:48 PM EDT
M14 / M1A all the way.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 10:23:14 PM EDT
Safe bet would be to get all three: [IMG]http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/ad23d77d.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 10:29:13 PM EDT
purrrdddyyyy
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:30:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WARDOG7366: AR-10! If you want long range accuracy and don't mind a little more weight, go with the (T) model. I punched a .45 moa 5 shot last weekend with the carbine. If you want a blaster that is not picky on ammo, the A4.
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Even with the AR-10A4, we have guys reporting MOA results. Best results I know of with the 10(T) is .33"(QCMGR) but that was with the AR-10(T) rifle and not the carbine. 5sub
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:41:51 AM EDT
very nice!
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:04:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3rdtk: A real M14 will shoot better than an M1A. /quote] What makes you believe that a "real M14" will shoot better than an M1A?
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 9:42:09 AM EDT
Just to be correct here, the AR-10 (current Armalite) uses modified M14 mags. Another brand of .308 cal AR type uses original AR-10 mags. Mags are not that big an investment in the end. Of course, the optimal to own all three of the memtioned. I do and think they are all very smart rifles. And of course, you need to ad a Valmet in 7.62 NATO also. Best of the bunch in many ways.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 11:17:16 AM EDT
Tugboat: If you want to check out a FAL, try these folks- [url=www.ohiorapidfire.com]Rapid Fire[/url] [url=www.adcofirearms.com]Adco Firearms[/url] [url=www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/]ARS[/url]
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 11:39:13 AM EDT
I bought 3 mag kits for my AR10 at the gunshow. Cost was $34.00 for each kit. I then got a M14 mag for $10.00 each So each mag only cost $44.00 in the end. I would take the AR10 platform over a M14 or Fal anyday. Mine is a AR10A4 and has been a very dependable rifle.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:31:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ekie: Safe bet would be to get all three: [IMG]http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/ad23d77d.jpg[/IMG]
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Yeah man! Ekie got his shit down! Soon, I'll be able to provide a similiar picture. I recently acquired a NIB (still had the tags on the trigger guard and waranty card) Limited Loaded version of the M1A built back in Dec 1998. Off of a rest with iron sight the rifle was shooting 1.25 moa with PMC FMJ. After some load development and the use of optics, I am convinced this rifle will shoot .5 moa. The M1A has considerably less recoil than my 20" AR10 in .308. LOVE THIS RIFLE! I have 3 AR10s, 2 in .308 and 1 in .243. The 16" A2 consistently shoots 1.5 moa off of a rest with mil surplus ammo. The 20" is morphing into a MK11 Mod 0, but was also capable of 1.5 moa with mil surplus ammo configured as an A2. A floated barrel and optics will improve its preformance greatly. The 24" .243 flattop shoots .5 or better. What I really like about the AR10 platform is the ability to shoot diferent calibers. As long as the cartridge is in the .308 family, you can use the same bolt and mags with 100% reliability. The M1A and FAL (yeah yeah, I know DSA just recently started to offer the FAL in a few different calibers, but nothing like the AR10) does not have this ability, economically or reliably. LOVE THESE RIFLES , TOO! Saving now for a DSA FAL.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 12:45:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 223Rem:
Originally Posted By Ekie: Safe bet would be to get all three: [IMG]http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/Ekie12091941/ad23d77d.jpg[/IMG]
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Yeah man! Ekie got his shit down! Soon, I'll be able to provide a similiar picture. I recently acquired a NIB (still had the tags on the trigger guard and waranty card) Limited Loaded version of the M1A built back in Dec 1998. Off of a rest with iron sight the rifle was shooting 1.25 moa with PMC FMJ. After some load development and the use of optics, I am convinced this rifle will shoot .5 moa. The M1A has considerably less recoil than my 20" AR10 in .308. LOVE THIS RIFLE! I have 3 AR10s, 2 in .308 and 1 in .243. The 16" A2 consistently shoots 1.5 moa off of a rest with mil surplus ammo. The 20" is morphing into a MK11 Mod 0, but was also capable of 1.5 moa with mil surplus ammo configured as an A2. A floated barrel and optics will improve its preformance greatly. The 24" .243 flattop shoots .5 or better. What I really like about the AR10 platform is the ability to shoot diferent calibers. As long as the cartridge is in the .308 family, you can use the same bolt and mags with 100% reliability. The M1A and FAL (yeah yeah, I know DSA just recently started to offer the FAL in a few different calibers, but nothing like the AR10) does not have this ability, economically or reliably. LOVE THESE RIFLES , TOO! Saving now for a DSA FAL.
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223Rem, my first AR-10 was in .243. I loved that rifle. Unfortunately, one of my brothers came for a visit and now HE loves that rifle !! 5sub
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