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Posted: 11/15/2003 9:35:27 AM EDT
Hi,
I just bought my first AR-15 yesterday. It's a bushmaster XM15-E2S M4 A2 (I believe) style.
It appears to be all original except for the pistol grip. I'm pretty new to the AR so I have a few questions.
The original owner says he put 100 rounds through it but did not go through any break in process. The gun is very very clean and the bore looks clean and perfect to my untrained eye.
Should I go through any breakin process? If so what? Is there anything I need to do since the rifle may not have been broken in properly?
There is a large flash hider that fits over much of the barrel. I wanted to know from where do I measure the barrel to check it's overall length? If it is a 14.5" do I need to permantly attach the flash hider? If so, can someone recommend where to have this done?
Thanks for your help in advance.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 10:01:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 10:04:13 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
First off, congratulations on your new Bushy!! [:)] Opinions vary about the necessity of a formal break-in procedure. For what it's worth your new rifle has a chrome-lined barrel made out of 4150 steel, so it is as durable as they come. For those who are in the pro break-in camp it is suggested that you shoot 200 rounds before you clean the barrel. The theory is that the 200 rounds fired consecutively will polish the chrome. Personally I don't feel it's necessary (especially for a chrome-lined barrel) but it certainly can't hurt. Enjoy your new rifle. If you take good care of your rifle it will take good care of you.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 10:16:37 AM EDT
Normal barrel break in is not for chrome barrels. Barrel length is measured bolt face to muzzle, and you may have a permanent 5.5 inch flash suppressor. That would make your barrel 11.5 unless you have the Choate flash suppressor, which fits on a 16" barrel and looks like its the 11.5x5.5 XM177 clone.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 10:31:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 10:35:16 AM EDT by MoPho]
Here it is: http://www.hunt101.com/img/071443.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/071445.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/071444.jpg
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 11:08:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MoPho: Here it is: http://www.hunt101.com/img/071443.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/071445.jpg http://www.hunt101.com/img/071444.jpg
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WHat you have is a Bushmaster XM177E2 clone. It looks like you have a longer barrel than the standard 11.5", but the flash suppressor is a XM177E2 clone.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 11:11:27 AM EDT
What does that mean that it is a clone?
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 11:17:01 AM EDT
If your AR is unfired, 'thoroughly' clean the barrel and then go have fun shooting.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 11:22:30 AM EDT
With a chrome lined barrel, any break-in procedure, is primarily to satisfy superstition, and to show respect to The Rifle God. Congratulations on acquiring a fine rifle, enjoy!!! Mr. L.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 11:35:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 11:38:25 AM EDT by Mb121]
Originally Posted By MoPho: What does that mean that it is a clone?
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The real XM177E2 was the Colt CAR15 series Commando model RO629 submachine gun, commonly called the CAR15 but this is incorrect as the CAR15 designation is most of Colt's SMGs or Carbines, that is why some people call the M4 a CAR15. The XM177E2 had a 11.5" barrel with a 4.5" flash suppressor which was designed to reduce the sound and muzzle flash of the weapon. Later the flash suppressor was deemed a sound suppressor by the BATF. Your AR15 was created to look like the XM177E2 with the short barrel with the welded clone of the XM177 flash suppressor. That is why it is a clone.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 12:01:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 12:04:06 PM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By MoPho: What does that mean that it is a clone?
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Don't worry, that is not a bad thing. Every 5.56 AR15 style rifle is a clone of the original Colt AR15. That's why colt is the only manufacturer that claimed the right to call a rifle the produced "AR15" although they don't use that name anymore because that model was banned by name in 1994. Now Colt uses an MT prefix I believe. Bushmasters, Armalites(even thought they designed the original that Colt bought the rights to), Olympics, PWAs, RRAs, DPMS, Fulton Armory, ALL of them are clones. They may incorporate new variations, innovations, etc, like the OA98 or ML300 for example, but they all use the same basic action. Most successful rifle platforms become clones at one time or another, like the FN FAL, HK91, M1, M1A and the list goes on and on.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 1:46:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By MoPho: What does that mean that it is a clone?
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Don't worry, that is not a bad thing. Every 5.56 AR15 style rifle is a clone of the original Colt AR15. .......Armalites(even thought they designed the original that Colt bought the rights to).........
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The Colt is a clone of the original ArmaLite AR-15. Everything since has been a copy. [b]AR[/b] stands for [b]AR[/b]malite !!
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 2:48:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 3:21:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 3:22:25 PM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By MoPho: What does that mean that it is a clone?
View Quote
Don't worry, that is not a bad thing. Every 5.56 AR15 style rifle is a clone of the original Colt AR15. .......Armalites(even thought they designed the original that Colt bought the rights to).........
View Quote
The Colt is a clone of the original ArmaLite AR-15. Everything since has been a copy. [b]AR[/b] stands for [b]AR[/b]malite !!
View Quote
I don't disagree in principle, but technically speaking, since Colt bought the rights to the AR15, including the trademark for the name "AR15", I believe that would make it NOT a clone since they then owned the original design and the name. In reality, as you said, since Armalite came up with it in the first place, what you say is true. Legally speaking, though, I believe the Colt AR15 would not be the clone, but the original. that is really splitting hairs, though.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 5:43:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/15/2003 5:45:22 PM EDT by Hank_Rearden1]
It's analagous to Dell or Gateway PCs, in that they are IBM PC clones. Doesn't mean "clones" are inferior quality. Some folks can reasonably argue that the clones are better in various ways. You have a very nice rifle!
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 5:45:02 PM EDT
Congrads! Welcome to the dark side. Seems like you made out well, don't baby it, go and shoot it, often. Rifles are not meant to be living in a safe.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 6:15:24 PM EDT
These are his pics, nice: [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/071443.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/071445.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/071444.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 6:18:04 PM EDT
Cool! It's a purple Bushy! I like it.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 7:40:04 PM EDT
Welcome to ARFCOM. That's one handsome rifle you have there.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 7:41:19 PM EDT
If it's a preban, it's cool in my book.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 9:51:56 PM EDT
Thanks for all the help. Can't wait to shoot it. Will probably take it to the range Monday if I can get away from work. I just bought a new HK P2000 9mm that I have not had a chance to shoot yet. I disassembled the rifle this afternoon for the first time completly as specified on the ar15 front page. Everything looks in order. I had quite a bit of trouble getting the firing pin retaining pin back in the bolt carrier. As well getting the handguards off. Any suggestions to make this go easier? The entire bolt carrier and all components were very greasy. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles, but my HK USP's definitely don't like to be that greasy. I use tetra to lube my HK's, is this ok with the BUshmaster? Can someone recommend a detailed cleaning regiment along with supplies. I looked at that Otis kit, that seemed pretty sweet. I gotta get one quick so I can go shoot the thing! Besides what it says to check for in the maintenence section of this site, is there anything further I need to check before I know the rifle is safe to fire? Also wanted to know if it is safe to dryfire the weapon, or should i limit this? Thanks for the warm welcome. Looking forward to participating on this site.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 5:55:01 AM EDT
To answer a few questions about cleaning. When putting the Firing pin retaining pin back in you normally just have to wiggle it back and forth a little bit and it should drop right in. Also if you're still having problems take a peak through the cuts in the bottom of the carrier to see what's happening as you try to push it in and adjust accordingly. Now about lubing your AR. I've always found less is more with my AR. You still need to use CLP (In your case Tetra, which I've heard great things about) but just don't go crazy with, apply it sparingly. Along the bolt body/extractor, cam pin area, sides of the carrier and outside of key are areas that should of a thin layer of CLP on them. THey shouldn't be dripping but it shouldn't be just a glaze. I've also found that just spraying CLP in the upper is a bad idea, it puts CLP in areas where it is doing absolutely no good and it will just get burned by all of the hot gas and create more gasses then you'd like, trust me. It also traps and creates a lot of excess carbon. For supplies, just make sure you have any decent brand of CLP. Tetra is awesome I hear. A pull through patch system would be great for your barrel. And if you find the noise your AR makes when you shoot it (Buffer spring Sproing) just apply some grease to the spring, not too much, just enough to get the sound to go away.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:45:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/16/2003 6:50:38 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By MoPho: I disassembled the rifle this afternoon for the first time completly as specified on the ar15 front page. Everything looks in order. I had quite a bit of trouble getting the firing pin retaining pin back in the bolt carrier. As well getting the handguards off. Any suggestions to make this go easier?
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If you have trouble getting the firing pin retaining pin back in, you can try one of two things: 1) if the firing pin retaining pin is slightly bent, replace it, they are about .50 cents. 2) if the firing pin retaining pin is not the problem, the pin opening on the inside of the carrier may be tight, not fully tapered,or at a slight angle variation, do this: take a small allen key (L-shaped), when you have the firing pin retaining pin in as far as it will go, take the allen key, put the short end of the "L" into the open part of the bolt carrier where you can see the retaining pin, put it directly under the firing pin retaining pin, pull up on the allen key, and push in the firing pin retaining pin. works everytime for me. The problem is the ends of the pin don't match up with the holes on the other side of the carrier when it is pushed through, this helps align the retaining pin with the hole. I use both tetra grease and oil (amazing stuff). I still use CLP break-free to clean my weapons(Army training just won't go away completely), but not lubricate. Good luck with your new baby!
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 10:30:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By MoPho: What does that mean that it is a clone?
View Quote
Don't worry, that is not a bad thing. Every 5.56 AR15 style rifle is a clone of the original Colt AR15. .......Armalites(even thought they designed the original that Colt bought the rights to).........
View Quote
The Colt is a clone of the original ArmaLite AR-15. Everything since has been a copy. [b]AR[/b] stands for [b]AR[/b]malite !!
View Quote
I don't disagree in principle, but technically speaking, since Colt bought the rights to the AR15, including the trademark for the name "AR15", I believe that would make it NOT a clone since they then owned the original design and the name. In reality, as you said, since Armalite came up with it in the first place, what you say is true. Legally speaking, though, I believe the Colt AR15 would not be the clone, but the original. that is really splitting hairs, though.
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Agreed - hair splitting.
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