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Posted: 10/25/2003 5:38:49 PM EDT
Just browsing around and can't help but notice that there are a bunch of guys dumping their prebans. On the 1st Page of the AR sale board there are over 20 for sale. I was interested in buying a preban Colt, but had to pass since I saw all of these rifles for sale.

Does anyone have any idea how low prebans will go for?

Is it me, but all of my research shows that the AWB will sunset and the chance of something else taking it's place is not that good?

Are some of you guys stocking up on lowers and preban uppers in the event that it does sunset?

I am just interested in what some of you think.

Thanks

Max

Link Posted: 10/25/2003 5:55:16 PM EDT
Just my opinoin but stick with "millitary spec." and don't get a Colt. I'm sure Colt's are good guns but most mill spec parts won't interchange so you'll be SOL if you need parts. With mill spec you can get a butt load of parts from several different places. I really do hope and pray that the AWB sunsets so we can be free to legally build what we want.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 6:33:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/25/2003 7:55:16 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
most mill spec parts won't interchange so you'll be SOL if you need parts.
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The only parts unique to a Colt are the .170 pin FCG parts. You can buy them anywhere, even Bushmaster sells the whole Colt FCG kit for $49.95: [url=http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/arcoltkit.asp]Colt FCG parts kit[/url] The only other thing you'd ever have to worry about is mating a large pin Colt lower to a small pin upper. There are plenty of inexpensive adapters available that will take care of this. Here are two of them: [url=http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/we-003.asp]Adapter from Bushmaster[/url] [url=http://store.yahoo.com/cdnn/arunfronconp.html]Adapter from CDNN[/url] Some people don't like the protruding sear blocks on some of the preban Colts. You can either mill it off if it bothers you or keep it like I did. There is a pic floating around here somewhere that shows that the sear block doesn't interfere with the installation of a full circle carrier. I'll try to find the pic and post it. Good luck with your purchase. Don't be afraid to buy a preban Colt, a Bushmaster, or any other rifle with a proven track record.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 9:53:16 AM EDT
I think it's a great time to buy a preban. The prices are as low as they've been for some time and I don't think they will get any lower. You will see a big jump in prices if the AWB doesn't sunset. As much as I'd like to see that happen, I wouldn't bet a cent on it.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 10:07:38 AM EDT
I thought that Colt used offset push pins, smaller dia. pins for the hammer and trigger which means smaller dia. holes in the hammer and trigger. I know that's not really much and you could always get spares but you'd have to get those special offset pin adapters to mount a different upper wouldn't you?
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 10:30:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: Just my opinoin but stick with "millitary spec."......
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Please tell us which company makes a mil-spec AR that is available for civilians ??
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 10:36:59 AM EDT
maxell, some preban AR's are rare and will be sought after by collectors when/if the AWB sunsets. However, most prebans will simply be old, used AR's. No one can tell you how low the prices will go but they are likely to bottom in summer 2004. If there's a particular Colt AR that you like and a couple or three hundred isn't going to break your bank go on and buy it and enjoy shooting for a year. Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 11:10:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TNFrank: Just my opinoin but stick with "millitary spec."......
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Please tell us which company makes a mil-spec AR that is available for civilians ??
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Bushy. Unless you mean full auto.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 11:42:57 AM EDT
With the exception of collector model prebans just watch as anybody that is in the business of making money on firearms start dumping the prebans that they have been holding out for high prices. How can the prebans not go lower, allot lower. If the ban sunsets with out any new legislation that is equal too or worse than the current ban the preban (non collectors items) will not be worth a dime more than postbans, maybe even less since they are older and used. You can get a stripped DPMS or RRA for $89-$109, they are going for $700 on the EE. How can anybody even begin to think these prebans won't drop like a stone. Some Colts and Bushmaster prebans go for $1200 stripped, the bottom is the limit for these babies. If you owned one and started to see the prices go down and down, why not sell it for what you can get for it and buy a whole rifle for the money? Or a complete lower with a nice stock and trigger. Maybe the upper you allways wanted. There will be a day and it will seem like all at once when all gun shops, pawn shops, individuals with sence and vendors of all types will see the preban lowers they paid big bucks for drop and they will start to try and get whatever they can above the cost of a new one before they are stuck selling it for the same price as a new one. I don't see how it can be any other way unless a new developement comes along (like another D.C. Sniper or Columbine) and derails the seeming end to the ASW.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 11:52:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:
Originally Posted By 5subslr5:
Originally Posted By TNFrank: Just my opinoin but stick with "millitary spec."......
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Please tell us which company makes a mil-spec AR that is available for civilians ??
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Bushy. Unless you mean full auto.
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I don't mean full-auto and Bushmaster does not make a mil-spec AR for the civilian market. (I don't believe Bushmaster is even currently an approved military supplier.) The answer is NO manufacturer makes a mil-spec AR that is available to the civilian market.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 12:20:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2003 12:21:51 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
I thought that Colt used offset push pins, smaller dia. pins for the hammer and trigger which means smaller dia. holes in the hammer and trigger. I know that's not really much and you could always get spares but you'd have to get those special offset pin adapters to mount a different upper wouldn't you?
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Colt uses larger (.170) diameter pins for the hammer and trigger.
Bushy. Unless you mean full auto.
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The word 'Milspec' has become a marketing term. The more a manufacturer uses this term the higher the likelihood that what they are selling isn't. The same people who claim that their rifles are "more milspec" than another brand are usually pretty quiet when you ask them about their [i]non[/i] milspec 1/9 twist barrels and their plastic trigger guards.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 12:21:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2003 12:27:06 PM EDT by bsbg]
Originally Posted By TNFrank: I thought that Colt used offset push pins, smaller dia. pins for the hammer and trigger which means smaller dia. holes in the hammer and trigger. I know that's not really much and you could always get spares but you'd have to get those special offset pin adapters to mount a different upper wouldn't you?
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The early Colt's (SP1's and "Green Label") used standard "Mil-spec" fire control group pivots and large front pivots. You would need an adapter to mount a small hole upper on a large hole lower. But two, they are cheap. No factory rifles ever used the adapter, as far as I know. Later "Blue Label" Colts switched to the small pivot, but larger FCG pins. Virtually every aftermarket supplier, even Bushmaster, makes large pin replacement parts. Buy a spare set and you are good to go. As far as buying a preban goes, if you find a NIB or excellent condition, you probably won't see prices too much lower. I would avoid real beaters at this point since there are such good deals on mint rifles that it makes no sense. If the Crime Bill sunsets, I repeat "If", all bets are off.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 12:26:08 PM EDT
I'm calling BS on Preban prices (on the EE at least) most garbage guns (EA, Oly, etc) are sold in excess of 1,200, whereas Bushmaster & many Colts are asking more than 1,500. I had no trouble finding those rates before. There is more than enough room for prices to come down. If you're serious about a preban & you're smart you won't buy one now. Some people have plenty that they're itching to drop for new post sunset ARs. If you don't buy these nervous sellere will have little problem taking the cost down acouple of pegs. If you buy now it's a vote that $1200 for an oly is a fair price & it'll take longer to bring the price down. My advice is wait. the worst case scenario is that the AWB WILL sunset & you'll just have to buy a new rifle for the same or less than these rejects.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 12:30:20 PM EDT
I've noticed that the prices in the EE don't really correspond to anything I see in my local shop. Perhaps that's why some of the same rifles on the EE are still sitting there and haven't moved. My local shop sells LNIB preban blue label Colts for between $1000 and $1200. They have a few in stock.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 12:40:56 PM EDT
LOL, I guess that just goes to show what I know about Colt AR's. There in the same class as Browning and Wetherby's, I can't afford any of them. Isn't the kits that we get from Model 1, M&A, ect. "mill spec."? By that I mean that if you had an M-16 you could swap parts and they'd fit and work properly in your AR and vis versa. Now if ya' want to talk Colt cap n' ball revolvers, that I know something about.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 1:18:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: LOL, I guess that just goes to show what I know about Colt AR's. There in the same class as Browning and Wetherby's, I can't afford any of them. Isn't the kits that we get from Model 1, M&A, ect. "mill spec."? By that I mean that if you had an M-16 you could swap parts and they'd fit and work properly in your AR and vis versa. Now if ya' want to talk Colt cap n' ball revolvers, that I know something about.
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TNFrank, there must be hundreds if not thousands of mil-specs on the AR-15/M-16. Even if parts are interchangeable, that does not mean the parts you and I can buy are made to military specifications. There are two questions I always ask about this mil-spec garbage: 1) WHICH mil-spec ?? They ALL have something to identify each spec - name/number......the current mil-spec or the one from ten years ago or.......?? Second question is who inspects to insure each (and every) part is made to the mil-spec - which third party independent quality control inspector confirms the part is from the correct material in the spec and then made to the mil-spec ?? Most can't get past question number one and none can get by question number two. If some manufacturer claims to make a mil-spec AR for the civilian market run the other way cause it is NOT TRUE.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 1:29:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/26/2003 1:29:53 PM EDT by M4arc]
I'm not going to jump into the "milspec" aspect of this thread but I do want to say that I've been finding some very good deals on prebans lately. In fact, I've bought two of those [b]"garbage"[/b] Olympics and had the lowers remanufactured into brand spanking new prebans. This is my insurance policy: I keep buying prebans and the ban will certainly expire just to spite me. [;)]
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 2:51:54 PM EDT
So "mil spec." really means quality control to millitary standards. Got it, that clears things up a bit. Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 2:52:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4arc: I'm not going to jump into the "milspec" aspect of this thread but I do want to say that I've been finding some very good deals on prebans lately. In fact, I've bought two of those [b]"garbage"[/b] Olympics and had the lowers remanufactured into brand spanking new prebans. This is my insurance policy: I keep buying prebans and the ban will certainly expire just to spite me. [;)]
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Yep, me too. I bought an Olympic with fluted barrel, match trigger, Harris bipod, two 30-round mags and assault rifle bag for $850.00.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 3:27:28 PM EDT
m4arc, Can you please explain this "remanufactur" thing to me? Do you send the lower to Oly and they make a new one with the same serial number? Scott
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 3:41:58 PM EDT
Scott, That is exactly what they do. You send yours in and they will stamp a new receive with your preban serial number. They even restamped mine with the original Stop Sign logo! If there isn't an issue with your old receiver, if you just want a new one, they will charge you something like $150 for the remake. BTW, what part of VA are you in? HTH - Marc
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:10:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: So "mil spec." really means quality control to millitary standards. Got it, that clears things up a bit. Thanks.
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Frank, first the military decides what the specifications (Mil-Spec) will be. The supplier then manufacturers to the specifications the military has established. Finally inspectors inspect to insure the product is in fact made to the specifications provided by the military.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:23:17 PM EDT
I believe that if you want a "pre-ban" gun you had better get one now. Even IF the AWB does not get extended, their will be plenty of Republicans that will cave in the next time someone comes up with a "assault weapons" ban or some watered down version of it. Full autos and "assault weapons" are going to be extinct or become unavailable in the next few years unless you are famous or can afford the big $$$. Look at the MG prices. There are a fixed number of them that are transfereable, yet prices have been steadily rising. They are a good investment. So will 30rd mags.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:38:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DOA: Full autos and "assault weapons" are going to be extinct or become unavailable in the next few years unless you are famous or can afford the big $$$. Look at the MG prices. There are a fixed number of them that are transfereable, yet prices have been steadily rising. They are a good investment. So will 30rd mags.
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About four years ago I bought an ArmaLite AR-18 New-in-the-Box for $4200. Today I'd have to take out a second mortgage to buy one - 'if' I could find one.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:38:10 PM EDT
I just bought a pre-an Eagle arms AR (complete rifle) at a dealer here for almost $800 with extras. Now, keep in mind that I will probably spend double this price pimpifying it,but none the less, there are good deals on pre-bans out there.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:40:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By imcoltsguy: I think it's a great time to buy a preban. The prices are as low as they've been for some time and I don't think they will get any lower. You will see a big jump in prices if the AWB doesn't sunset. As much as I'd like to see that happen, I wouldn't bet a cent on it.
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No way with an AR-15 used in the DC Sniper case that AWB will sunset. No way a politician is not going to vote to extend it or make it much stricter. Most folks, even gunlovers are not necessarily into AR-15's and consider them assault rifles with no sporting purpose. I wish this was not the case, but it is. I'll keep my four Prebans and feel fortunate if I'm even allowed to transfer them.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 10:22:31 PM EDT
I counted 51 preban lowers for sale on the EE, that is on 2 1/2 pages and just on this site. If the AWB sunsets without a new ban of some kind non collectors items will lose virtually all worth. If the AWB gets replaced and prebans have the same status as they do now they will go up but not much, how much higher are people willing to go for the ability to put a telescoping stock, flash hider or bayo lug on their rifle. I read on a post above that their are preban deals out there, I can't find one and haven't seen on on any boards. I was at the Ft. Lauderdale gun show last month and they thought the things were made out of gold. The cheapest one I found (and I walked the whole show twice) was $1400 for a average SP1. The SP1's are going for $1200 on the EE. The prices at the show went up from there. The next cheapest preban was $1700 and the went up to $2800 for nothing special. Just wait, their will be lots of sellers and no buyers as people who sell want to get the most they can before the sunset and people who buy waiting because they know they will go for nothing if the AWB sunsets.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 11:15:07 PM EDT
I think you have a point WhyWork. Some people are just unwilling to admit that their rifles aren't worth what they want for them. Hopefully (for their sake) they didn't pay the world for them when [i]they[/i] bought them. I'm fortunate that back in 1991 I paid $1300 for a pair of NIB Colt 6601s. A couple of years ago I probably could have sold them for quite a profit, but I wanted to hang onto them and still do. My local dealer is at least more realistic when it comes to selling Colt and Bushy prebans. There has been a lot of talk about the value of prebans after the sunset but I haven't seen a lot of discussion about the value of postbans after the sunset. Once flash hiders, collapsibles, and bayonet lugs are legal again I wonder if there is going to be a glut of politically correct ARs that nobody wants. I also wonder if there is going to be a rash of people threading their barrels crooked which could further harm their resale value. Don't mind me, I'm just thinking out loud [:)]
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