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Posted: 10/13/2003 11:39:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 6:06:09 PM EDT by model927]
For a 3rd time I went shooting today at holbrook gun club.To my dissapointment an older club member at the risk of walking out of the woods on a hot rifle range while me and my friend are firing decides to yell at us about a 5 round limit that we were abiding by here is the story.On the range you must put up an orange flag when the range is hot to let people know your shooting.A car parked at the end of the range was empty.My friend and member of the club thought it a good Idea and I that we walk the 200 yd range and make sure no one was working on it or maybe hurt and could not get help as most of the members are older fellas and predominately trap shooters wich I will tie in later.We got no response so we made our way back to the firing line.We had 13 mags between us so we loaded 6 rounds 1 over the limit but only fired 5 as our intent was first to abide by club rules and second after shooting 5 1 would be in the chamber so we would not have to constantly use our bolt catches and it provided some tactical reload experience as well.1/2 hour into our fun as we are firing an older guy apears to my right out of the tree line about 10 feet past the firing line carrying a tree stand,a no no when people are shooting.We had just got done firing a 5 round string apiece when before we had a chance to change mags were berated in front of others being acused of not following the limit,after an explanation by us then the complaint changed to "firing our machines to fast"keep in mind he was carrying a tree stand said he saw us shooting so that tells me he was in a some what unsafe position of to the right down range in the tree line but what he thought was a capacity violation was some how more important to him than possibly being accidently hit with a round seeing as how we never knew he was out there as we first investigated and called out. when we brought up that point he said " I heard you guys and the shots I wasnt worried about being shot,Realy I would have been if I were past the firing line and people started throwing lead down range.The first time I shot there the same fellow came down range never saying hi or introducing himself,eye balled our rifles at the range table shook his head and walked away.The second time it was raining and he said rounds my buddy and I were shooting were "bouncing of the ground" when we had targets up against a berm 100 yds away,I could understand if we were shooting at the ground but we werent and then he says"why are you shootin with that in the rain any way your shots are bouncing".I wanted to be a member there but evidently these "trap shooters" dont like the little black rifle and I encourage any one in massachsetts considering joining there dont.If you love to shoot the AR dont go there.It is this train of thought that allowed the Assault Weapons Ban to pass in the first place.The "I dont like or own one "so who cares attitude.I felt bad for my friend who is a state certified pisol instructor and armorer for a local police department a few towns over and many certifications and trainings as well as tactical courses at sig arms in new hampshire.He was thoroughly embarrased and needless to say I wont be joining there.Is this a common mind set of trap shooters? or is he just being a grumpy old man.
?Im already a member of another club that totaly embraces the military type rifles and holds a CMP match once a month.They have a 10 round limit but dont mind if its OK with people shooting next to you to dump a 30 shot mag.Other times I load 30 and shoot 10 shot strings.He stayed and watched us because he "wanted to be sure we were shooting 5 and reloading a fresh mag"I was surprised at his carelessness the way he walked on a "hot"range.If you want a good range with great people in massachsetts Braintree gun club is what you are looking for and they are AR friendly,steer clear of holbrook.Its a shame because holbrook range goes to 200 yds and you can use a pistol or shotgun with buckshot on the same range making weapon transistion possible.Braintree has all individual ranges for each class weapon and shot guns can only use slugs wich to me is not a problem because the are much more friendly and very pro right to keep and bear arms.They see it as a necessity that people should know how to use a service rifle,they are great.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 12:05:47 PM EDT
Another great club in Massachusetts is the Massachusetts Rifle Association. Great place with 50 foot .22 range, 87 ft. rifle/pistol range, 30 foot pistol range, 50 yard, 100 yard, and 200 yard rifle ranges and a trap/skeet range. Nobody there minds the "evil baby killer guns."
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 12:08:48 PM EDT
Yet another reason I'm glad I didn't join Holbrook. I also will recommend Hanson Rod and Gun (though, I too will be joining Braintree). I was there on Sunday for a high power sight in function, and the old timers of that club were exceptionally nice. Answered all my questions, chatted about anything and were even checking out my AR as well. They don't have any mag limits either, plus they sponsor a machine gun shoot that's open to the public once a year. Massachusetts seems to get worse and worse, and I can only imagine what will/would happen if the Dems get control again. J
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 12:26:04 PM EDT
To TWO TWENTY THREE could you give me some info on that club.Hey RECON whats up?I would have gone to braintree today like I was supposed to do but I forgot my key card so my buddy took me to Holbrook,He has mentioned Hanson it sounds like a great club and ive heard also about the machine gun matches.Could you give me some info on it when you get a chance?how much to join?thanks..Dave
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 2:20:46 PM EDT
Hey, I shoot Trap! I must admit (rather embassasingly) that there are a few trap shooters-elitists who feel that only their prized doubles are worthy of ownership...living in N.E. Ct, I probably know some of the same folks you have had the displeasure of meeting! [url]http://www.massrifle.com/[/url]
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 2:24:00 PM EDT
No offense RUSSB Im sure your a lot nicer than some of the folks I have dealt with my last few trips down there,and thanks for the insight on some not all trap shooters.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 2:44:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2003 10:55:30 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
There's a name for that man who complained: hypocritical-range-nazi-prick. [:(!]
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 4:18:44 AM EDT
Hey mike I like that"range nazi"[:D]
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 5:38:42 AM EDT
Try Nashua Fish and Game in NH. The Tactical Arts Group runs rifle night for a nominal fee. This is open to the public and does not require club membership. http://www.nfga.org/rifle.html This is almost exclusively black rifle tactical shooting (think IDPA with rifles). Mail me if you have questions.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 6:29:24 AM EDT
Why don't you guys schedule an AR shooting day at this piece of shit range. Get about a dozen guys with AR's or for that matter other military style weapons and really piss that old fucker off.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 6:46:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2003 6:47:11 AM EDT by underdog75]
The range I go to is PUBLIC....And there seems to be several different types:you've got your boltgun guys shooting their 300winmag once then wanting the line to go cold so they can check their paper only to come back and do it again::Your Im just here to show my girlfriend how to shoot my .22 so we didn't bring earplugs guys,::your motormouths who almost never shoot but always want to tell you the everything they know about rifles/shooting::To be fair theres really nice,knowledgeable,safe people there as well, Their just the minority.....UNDERDOG
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 8:55:00 AM EDT
Sounds like the Blacksburg or Wytheville public ranges. I loved the kid at the Blacksburg range shooting a Mosin-Nagant M-44 carbine under a covered firing position without hearing protection. He will be a poster child for belltone if he keeps it up!
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 2:25:00 PM EDT
Question for you guys - I'm a NH resident and I shoot at Nashua Fish and Game every once in a while. That's the best club I've ever been to, and the IDPA matches that the TAG puts on are great. Can a NH resident belong to the braintree club, and if so - would you need one of MA's bogus class A licenses (non-res) to transport an AR rifle (forget bringing handguns into MA)for a day of shooting at a range in MA? Draconian gun laws down there, but I'd like to shoot some different ranges once in a while.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 2:58:11 PM EDT
The local ranges are pretty good. People pretty much keep their mouths shut and just shoot. At one, a range run by the S.O., the range officer, a Reserve Officer, will come over and chat occasionally, ask a few questions, and I let him blast off a few rounds, which he enjoys. Occasionally I will have someone curious about the Eotechs I have on several of my AR's, and will ask about those. But generally, few negative comments. Every once in a while, some guy, usually a bolt gun shooter, will ask, "What are you gonna do with that, hunt terrorists?" My answer is, "I don't believe in killing animals for sport... this is for homeland defense." That usually confuses them and they shut up.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 3:08:50 PM EDT
Yet another reason no to live in a state that has no respect for your second amendment rights .I lived in NEW JERSEY for 35 years and I now live in ARIZONA best thing I ever did ,now my property taxs are way lower and I'm not funding thier bullshit gun laws .
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 3:44:53 PM EDT
To J1603 I dont know for sure what the laws are about coming from newhampshire to here.Try the Mass state police and they can give you specifics.As far as braintree Im not sure about what the procedure is for out of state members or if they do that but heres my email drop me a line and give me a couple of days to get in touch with the club member board and Ill will surely find out...bigdavebigd@aol.com to 00_BUCKSHOT now thats an Idea 12 guys with ARs and we load the 5 round limit that should wake the dead at that range.To A_FREE_MAN thats what I always do at braintree,let the curious take some shots,its a great club and doing that always makes the range a happier place to be for sure.I figure as a shooter its my job to expose anyone who wants to service type rifles.To BUSTER51 I had a job offer last year in arizona,could have moved to phoenix but with a baby on the way and a hundred other things going on I passed but now I am regreting it.Arizona is real pro gun and it seems there is plenty of wide open space to shoot.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 5:01:50 PM EDT
model927: Its a great place, lots of ranges and open 24/7. They even have courses there for those that need to get their permits. www.massrifle.com
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 5:16:27 PM EDT
TWO TWENTY THREE I checked out their web site last night they are in woburn only 20 minutes half hour tops from me I think its going to be my second club.I go to 4seasons fire arms in woburn alot so its in the same town wich is excellent.I can get ammo and go straight to the range,thanks for the info..927
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 6:59:15 PM EDT
Please pardon the thread hijack. Hello folks. I'm new to MA and have recently relocated from VA. Aside from getting my permit in order, I have yet to find an AR friendly range in the south shore. Having read the good post about the Braintree club, does anyone have a link or contact info? Any recommendations for other area ranges esp w/o load limits would be appreciated. THX
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 7:20:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2003 7:27:28 PM EDT by model927]
Dont feel your hijacking the thread your a fellow shooter who needs help then well do the best we can. As far as I know on the south shore its braintree its on liberty street right next to the D.A.V, disabeled american veterans just get information of Braintree Rifle and Pistol club.They have a meeting this sunday I beleive the 19th for new membership applications just bring your permit and an ID I beleive now its $110 to join and $90 a year,its very service rifle friendly,alot of guys shoot ARs including me. they have a CMP match once a month except for dec,jan,feb,march, april starts it back up.As far as limits they have a 10 round limit,you can load to 30 and just shoot 10 shot strings with a few second break in between.Its a very friendly club and the guys are excellent there,look into it.As far as other clubs maybe some one else can chime in.I know there is a club in weymouth thats being rebuilt after a fire last year but its pistols only range.Braintree is 24 hour access,ive been there 9 years and many of my family go there to. the internet link is www.brp.org hope this helps.
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 11:42:32 AM EDT
~927 Thanks for the info. Braintree seems like the best location for me. I'll look into that ASAP
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 5:49:50 PM EDT
BLITKRIEG if you ever want to check out braintree let me know I can show you around the club,also if your married wives get to join for just $10 bucks more a year they just have to take the class and thats it.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 6:35:17 PM EDT
Another club to look into is Plymouth, right across from the airport. No mag limits, range out to 200 yds, stations and frames are all pretty much new.They also have trap, skeet ,wobble skeet and sporting clays. I am not a member there but shoot sporting clays almost every Sun. The times I have shot on the rifle range there has hardly been anyone shooting. Also my club,Old Colony,allows only 1 round in long guns and 5 in hand guns.Marshfield has a 5 round limit and is also not really busy. Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 6:43:12 PM EDT
To JSHOOTER that sounds real good if you could send me some info about plymouth that would be apreciated...Dave
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 6:53:51 PM EDT
Model927, weather permitting I'll shoot sporting on Sunday and get all the info for you.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 7:36:34 PM EDT
Thanks much appreciated.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 2:15:23 PM EDT
Sounds more like he was yelling at you for being unsafe not because of the guns. 5 round means 5 rounds, not 5 in the mag and one in the chamber. You seem to modify the rules to your liking rather then abiding by that particular clubs rules. that doesn't excuse what the old timer did to you but maybe safety was a bigger part of the issue and not the fact that they don't like military style weapons.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 3:27:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 3:28:31 PM EDT by model927]
Go back and read the thread we were shooting 5 rounds and he was unsafe coming out of the woods 15 feet infront of the firing line while we were shooting so go back and read it again and even if we did load an extra round and shoot it that is not a safety issue we shot five rounds and at other times references were made to the types of weapons we were shotting so go back and read the story again before you comment.They dont bother you when you show up with a trap gun.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 5:18:20 PM EDT
Well, your friend who you say is a member should go back an re-read the rules. I've been there a number of times for CMP shoots, action pistol and pepper popper matches and am familiar with them. 1. Flag DOWN = hot line. Flag UP = cold line...Safe to cross the firing line/people down range/no handling of weapons. 2. The rule is to LOAD only 5 rds, not load 6, 10, 30 and shoot 5. Seems like the guy coming out of the woods was ignoring rules...much like you.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 5:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2003 6:01:46 PM EDT by model927]
your right I worded it wrong flag down hot flag up safe in any event he could have been accidently shot and this is after we spent 15 minutes hollering and checking down range to make sure it is clear.To accuse us of not shooting 5 rounds when we were is assanine they are prdominantly a trap club and like to make comments when you show up with ARs and the guy ignoring the rules has been there 30 years we both were shooting ARs same ammo maybe thats what confused him but I think not considering this isnt the first time this guy has been an ass he just uses a different excuse every time.And he never bothered to see how many we were loading so what 6 rounds so I dont have to constantly work the bolt catch we shot 5 at a time and thats what he was bitching about that we were not shooting 5 rounds and he came out of the tree line yelling so how could he see what we were loading he couldnt he just assumed becuase my buddy and I were shooting at the same time.The problem is these guys have no other life than the club.I am not the only one who has had problems there and this is why I wont join and this is why their membership is so low.When I am at a range I treat people with the same respect I expect back especialy when they and myself are armed.If he had an issue or an assumption there was a better way to go about it.And my buddy is a police officer and state certified instructor who gives that club alot of buisness he also had permission to exceed the 5 round limit by 1 because of the courses he teaches witch involves a tactical reload witch leaves a round in the chamber while you change the magazine.This did not matter as he berated my friend in front of me Im sure you will agree that respect at the range is paramount for harmony among armed individuals.If he stopped his yelling he would have gotten a better explanation but did not so screw him and his club.And he is on the clubs executive board and no where in the rules does it say go on the rifle range tree line and set up a tree stand and at braintree even though there is a 10 round limit no one minds if you load a 30 as long as you are shooting controlled and resonsibly and as long as its OK with others on the range they dont mind if you dump a 30 to test out a new mag.And as far as CMP shoots the course of fire requires shooting 10 shot strings except for prone slow fire loading 1 shot at a time for 20 shots the other 3 stances are 10 shots each totaling 50.I dont know how they do their CMP shoots but its a pain in the ass when you have to reload every 5 shots when the courses of fire are 10.So there was no reason for hius behavior and we had permission no one gives permission on any range to pop out past the firing line while people are firing,Far more dangerous than loading the extra round my friend had permission to do.In any event they lost revenue of 6 new members.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 6:09:39 PM EDT
Ok..first..take a breath. Your post reads like it is one long sentence. I'm not making any excuses for the guy. He was stupid, whether the flag was up or down, and I'm not ragging on you, but you do have to realize it is the same at every club. I've been to every club from Quincy to New Bedford and they all have the same types. You go shooting on a weekday, and what do you find...3-4 guys, usually 60+ years old, retired, drinking coffee at the clubs. They have nothing to do so they socialize at the clubs. Its the same everywhere, even Braintree. It just so happens that at Holbrook, the retiree's are all trap shooters. Its membership is not predominately Trap or shotgun. Of the 600+ members, only about 100 are Trap Shooters. The rest are rifle/pistol shooters. The difference is that the rifle/pistol shooters don't live there. The Trap shooters are also a vocal minority, where others pretty much just ignore them and get on with their shooting. I've brought my rifles to shoot many times and have run into situations similar to yours. What I did was threw him a mag and told him to count the number of rounds and continue to shoot while he counts. I understood that firing 5 rounds, dropping a mag and popping off 5 more, can sound like someone is exceeding the limit so I don't get bothered when someone questions it. I also think you'll find that there is a general apprehension to the use of "Assault Weapons" at many ranges around here. Not because of what they are (or look like), but because it appears that there are more idiots behind the AR/AKs. From others I've run into: 1. Shoot to make noise, rather than to hit something. 2. More careless with muzzle and trigger discipline. 3. Don't clean up after themselves. 4. Always a minimum of 3 people pile out of the car, always with AR/AKs and wearing camos, dump their stuff on the bench and start blasting, regardless of who else may be using the range. 5. AR/AK shooters are usually 18-25 yo, which pisses off the conservative old-timers. (I know that these are generalizations and that other shooters do the same thing, but it really seems to be more common with AR/AK type shooters).
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 6:14:39 PM EDT
To NEILFJ very well put and I agree with all you said.My punctuation gets bad when I try to get it out to fast.And I agree the younger crowd blasting away with bad weapons handling is probably one of the reasons for the limits.
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 7:42:55 PM EDT
These elitist geeks are going to be the ruin of all of us, including themselves. We have the same problem with the Palma shooters at the Phoenix Ben Avery range. As a group (though not exclusively) they are convinced in their hearts that anybody shooting anything other than what they shoot (to include handgunners, archers, shotgunners, and the dreaded semi-auto shooters) are less-than-legitinate and need to go away. They have gone so far as to try to ban .50's from the range. Apparently they lack the intellectual capacity to realize that we're all in this together. They seem to function from the delusional belief that if they help get rid of the "icky" guns, they will be left alone. As near as I am able to determine, their only useful function is to provide amusement when I embarass them with my SR25. SD
Link Posted: 10/22/2003 7:47:21 PM EDT
I should have moved to arizona when I had the chance to.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 8:52:23 PM EDT
I have been a member at Holbrook Sportsmen's Club for many happy years. I use the 200 meter range all the time. I can count on one hand the number of times Trap shooters have been down to that range. Holbrook has been running DCM/CMP matches over 25 years. My three children each received an M-1 shooting at Holbrook's DCM matches. I have been shooting the 200 yd summer league at ames for Holbrook. Most shoot AR's. I am a member at four Gun Clubs and enjoy Holbrook the best. I also show up durning the day for coffee, shooting and talking with the retired group. The only trouble nobody in the group shoots Trap.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 12:13:17 AM EDT
I'm a member at Plymouth. It's been great for me, but I don't get there too often. The dues are $100 a year, and when you first join, there's an initiation/documentation fee I believe. Very free, yet structured there. The indoor range is pistol and .22 rifle only, and no FMJ ammo. The outdoor range has 25 yard lanes (place targets at full 25 yards or at 50') and 200 yard lanes. A few old timers gather at the clubhouse where the indoor range is to watch NFL on SUndays. They give you a dirty eyeball look when you come out after shooting some big boomers (.40, .45 etc) and making it hard to hear their game, but they're harmless. An awesome guy to talk to there is Dave Nelson, as far as membership. He's there every Thursday evening by 7pm for a weekly big bore pistol shoot. He's the club's secretary treasurer or VP right now.
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