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Posted: 10/11/2003 7:58:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 10:13:10 PM EDT by BigMAK-Attack1]
Hi Folks

I know this isn't exactly an AR question, but I know there are a lot of Military folks on here, and the M-16 is the choice weapon, I figured I would ask.

My Daughter is thinking of going into the Air Force and would like to get a head start on the whole basic training thing.
Unfortunatly my manuals are about 30 years old (as she sits here laughing at me).

Does anyone have a recent one that they would consider giving up for a good cause or possibly selling? We would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks Guys
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 10:12:31 PM EDT
Mines about 7 years old unfortunately and written all in. I will ask the airmen around here for you though. Scott
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 10:22:53 PM EDT
Hey SgtRed Thanks.....We would appreciate it very much. She is gung ho and ready to go but she is Delayed till March. She thinks she is going to get a head start and follow in my footsteps and be a SMSgt before her first re-enlistment. [:D] Of course, I'm not going to bash her dreams and tell her it took me most of my career geting there. :-) Thanks Again !
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 10:47:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 10:48:41 PM EDT by RED_5]
I would think it would be better for her to go in with an open mind and learn the "Correct" way [rolleyes] from her DI. for if she knew too much, they might try and make an 'example' of her.. not to say that knowing some stuff in advance wouldn't be to her advantage.. best to concentrate on being physically up to speed before showing up in basic.
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 10:12:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2003 10:20:14 AM EDT by BigMAK-Attack1]
RED_5 I agree with you completly. She has watched me through my 25 year career and she thinks she knows everything about how the military works. I want to try and break her of that before she goes to basic, thus the need for the true "basic military training manual" That way, she sees in black and white what she really "needs" to know and not what she "thinks" she already knows. As for physically fit.....heh heh heh heh....I've already got her doing 25 (man style) push-ups, 200 sit-ups, running 2 miles in 18 minutes. [}:D] Heh heh..its my turn to make her life miserable like she has done to me the past 19 years. [:d] Thanks for the input
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 10:39:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2003 3:06:37 PM EDT by cmjohnson]
She should be able to run a mile and a half. More is of course better. She should be able to correctly identify the rank insignia of all grades of enlisted and officer personnel, and know what they look like in both their bright forms and their subdued forms. The first time I saw a 2lt's gold bar in subdued brown on his BDU's, I didn't know what rank it was. No problem, I just explained that I'd never seen that before. If she knows basic formation drill, including column and flanking movements, and knows the numbers of steps from point to point that each rank takes in each column or flanking movement makes, learning drill will be much easier. Let me hand on a few tips that will make AF basic much easier. At least, this info was true when I was there. (1987...but it probably hasn't changed much.) These tips concern the mess hall. 1: Never, EVER stand up unless your mouth is empty. 2: There's often a TI sitting at the TI's tables, calling out "Airman! Airman! Yes, you!" This is a trick to try to get you to stand up and walk over to the TI's table while you have food in your mouth. That gets you a ticket. (A form 341, discrepancy report) Never make eye contact with that TI who's doing that. He or she is fishing. Don't take the bait. Once I DID take the bait, made eye contact, and the TI motioned me to her table. I nodded, swallowed, wiped my mouth, and stood up, at which point she waved me off. Sit back down and continue your meal. I'd passed that test. 3: You will be under orders to drink at least two glasses of water with each meal. But the mess hall has soda, coffee, and milk dispensers all over it. Why, if you're supposed to drink your two glases of water? Well, they don't TELL you this, but once you've drunk your two glasses of water, you can help yourself to anything else. Polish off the water and go get yourself a glass of Pepsi or whatever suits you. It's OK, just as long as you've had the water first. You can do this on your FIRST day of basic, if you're brave enough. One more tip: At Lackland AFB, (where basic training will occur) you will almost never encounter any civilians. It is safe to assume that any person who is in civilian clothes and is not another trainee is active duty military, just not on duty at the moment, and of course, anyone who's not in basic and is active duty military is going to outrank you. So respect ALL personnel in civilian clothing. Assume they outrank you, because they almost certainly do. I say this because once while my flight was waiting to enter the chow hall, two brain-deads in my flight decided to make heckling noises at two physically fit men in civilian clothing who were in their late 20's to early 30's, had sharp military haircuts, and were unloading a few packages from the back of a pickup truck into the squadron's orderly room. Well, the two men took note of Heckle and Jeckle, came and got them, and dragged them straight into the squadron commander's office after a very brief but intense dressing down in front of our squadron. The two miscreants had been heckling some TI's who were preparing to pick up another flight of recruits. You could safely say that the Captain who was the squadron commander was less that totally enthused over the performance of these recruits, but that falls far short of the intensity of his feelings over the matter. They were recycled, two extra weeks in basic training. I was surprised they got off so lightly. Don't do that. CJ
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 4:38:16 PM EDT
Well, my experience was in the army (so I haven’t a clue what manual you’re talking about). Anyway, based on my experience, I’d suggest that she act dumb, keep her mouth shut, and [b]not[/b] boast about her dad!! I’d also warn her that a headstart could actually backfire if she develops lazy habits at first. At some later point, she could suddenly find herself being left behind the rest of the class. Good luck to her!
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 6:33:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2003 6:36:17 PM EDT by BigMAK-Attack1]
Hey CM and 199 Thanks for reminding me of the old days LOL I went through basic at Lackland back in the days when our uniforms were still tan (called 1505's or 1550's or something like that). Those were the days when the TI's could still get down right mean with you. My dad was in the Navy and I made the mistake of letting the TI's know that. Boy was that a mistake. They F*&^ed with me the whole time after that. I had close to 30 AF Form 341's pulled on me, but the day of graduation my TI handed them all to me along with my Honor Graduate Ribbon. I'm glad things went the way they did because it prepared me for the rest of my career.....which actually was a pretty awesome journey. OK...I'm ranting now....so I will stop. Thanks for the inputs and tips. Much appreciated.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:37:03 AM EDT
I just went through basic this year, April 16-May 30. I have a manual if you want it. However what is in the manual is the easy stuff. The book work in basic is easy. The hard part is the mental. There is also another manual that stays in your locker to show dorm setup. This one you can't take with you and in my opinion is more important than the other. Just remind your daughter to do her best and also to blend in. It sounds like she has the physical part down pat. If you have any questions get a hold of me. I was the old fart in my BMT flight and also the Dorm Chief and can tell you a few tips. I think it is also excellent advice for her to go in and play "dumb" to a certain point. It is ok for her be knowledgeable, but just don't flaunt it. I was 31 when I went through this year and I can attest to what happens when you stick out.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 6:05:24 PM EDT
So is the advice I gave still good and relevant in AF basic? CJ
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 6:20:33 PM EDT
It was in 1996 if that is any help CJ.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 8:41:12 PM EDT
CJ, Yes it is. The # of drinks is up to three now though(too many dropping from dehydration I guess). The chow hall doesn't sound like it has changed much. You can even get dessert if you are confident of your memory work(in the manual) because you will most likely be called to the "snake pit" which is the TI's table and be grilled. I don't recommend it though. Less stress. What squadron did you go through? Mine was the 320th.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 10:44:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 10:49:36 PM EDT by Cutter75]
My Dad was a Retired CMSgt from the USAF... Everything [b]cmjohnson[/b] said is good advise... Here's what helped me in basic training - 1) Know how to make a 'good' military bed - tight, squared away corners - it got me noticed by my TI, and promoted to Squad leader - they look for people that can help them train by example... 2) Listen, and do what you are told - they guys in our flight that always got in trouble were running their mouths, or thought they knew it all - pay attention and absorb like a sponge - that's what your TI is looking for... 3) As CJ said - Being sharp in Drill will make the experience better... TWO DON'TS... This is first hand - I did it... 1) We were called to formation, and I threw a candy wrapper at the trash can and missed - I picked it up, and in a rush threw it again and missed again - I thought to myself F**K IT, and proceeded to run to formation - a break monitor told me to pick it up, and I flipped him off... Within the hour I was called down to the CQ - Commander chewed me out(this was on a Saturday), and "because your Dad was a CMSGt" I'm going to give you punishment instead of booting you back - My TI took me down to the laundry room, and told me that I had to keep it clean all day - every hour on the hour he was going to inspect the laundry room - if had better pass muster - otherwise I would get booted back a week or two... Needless to say I camped out in the Laundry room all day - it stayed clean... 2) My last week of Basic - our flight was the top flight for that rotation (fewest gigs) - so we were feeling pretty cocky. I was on my way from the CQ back to my flight, and I saw my TI in the hall - I said "Good afternoon, SGT. Kxx (forget his name)" - He stopped and barked real loud "WHAT DID YOU SAY???" I looked down the hall and 6 or 7 smokey the bear hats all turned and growled in my direction - I thought, and repeated what I said very slowly reflecting on each and every word - nope, I didn't say anything wrong I thought - He said (Loudly again)"GOOD AFTERNOON, SGT Kxx, SIR!!!" How embarassing... Follow the protocals - When they say you are to address them as Sir - don't forget it... [sniper2]
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 6:27:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2003 6:30:04 AM EDT by cmjohnson]
I went through in 1987, 3711 BMTS, Flight 103. For all I know, the squadrons have all been redesignated by now, so for reference, my squadron building was the second from the end, near the P.T. field and parade ground. I was a PA. (Proficiency Advanced, a program that allows certain people who have prior relevant training such as 3 or 4 years high school ROTC to complete an abbreviated basic training program. I had the 4 years of ROTC, which got me the PA status and I started basic training as an E-3. 3 years of ROTC would get you E-2.) So I got the whirlwind tour. Basic for me consisted of just 12 days of training plus the weekends in between. I went through so fast that due to scheduling conflicts with the firing range (the SP's had taken it over for a couple of days) I never got to fire an M16 while in basic, even though I took the initiative and found a hole in my schedule that gave me an opportunity to get to the range and try again. After getting up at 3 AM and hiking 3 miles, I got to the range and was told no, the SP's still have the range, sorry, you're going to have to get a waiver and get your training at your duty assignment. After about the first week, I was never with my flight except for nights, dinners and sometimes breakfast or maybe lunch. It was like I was a visitor to my own flight, but it was a very enjoyable way to spend basic training as I wasn't under the TI's thumbs all the time, in fact I rarely saw them. I has a map and a schedule to meet, and it was mostly up to me to make sure I was where I need to be at the time I need to be there. In a cruel twist of irony, I ended up leaving Lackland on the same day as my flight's "mother flight", the flight next to us that had been there a few weeks longer than us and had the duty of showing us the ropes. The twisted part of that is that as a PA, I was given the command of my mother flight! It was my responsibility to be sure that no one got lost or did something stupid before we split up at the airport for our separate flights to our tech schools. I was supposed to pick a deputy as well, so I picked the first guy who apparently knew his ass from a hole in the ground and would make direct eye contact. I never had any reason to regret my decision. Not that there's much to screw up on a trip to the airport anyway. I don't think the PA program is available anymore. But it WAS a pretty good way to get basic training. I actually enjoyed more of it than I care to admit. Maybe the years make you remember the better parts and forget the lousy parts, but in truth I have some good memories of my short stay in basic. If I had to go back and do it all again, I would. CJ
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 1:40:46 AM EDT
Went thru AF Basic in June 1973... Also, I didn't brag about my Dad, but it was obvious to the Instructors that I had prior knowledge... Like I said earlier, be quiet, be respectful, and listen... Your Daughter will do fine... [sniper2]
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 6:01:54 AM EDT
When I was in basic, one of the first afternoons there, the TI's asked if any of us were from military families, and what rank our fathers (or mothers) held. Several of us answered yes, and I wasn't the only one whose father was a retired Lt. Colonel. (Air Force, pilot) We weren't treated any differently than anybody else. Our TI's played a little bit of the "good TI, bad TI" game. When the assistant TI got us all into the "rec room" (in which no recreation occurred during my brief visit but MIGHT have later on) and closed the door, he toned the TI bit down and became a more-or-less regular guy, so long as everyone remained respectful. We liked it when someone got a package of home-baked cookies because of course you can't be keeping that stuff in the dorms. So they all got shared and didn't last long. So there's a useful piece of advice: If you're going to send cookies to someone in basic training, send enough that the whole flight gets some. When I went through, the nominal flight size was 50 people, give or take a handful. I don't know if that is still the case. CJ
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 6:53:17 PM EDT
As a Marine Corps veteran from what I can see of Air Force Basic it goes like this; 1. Wake up on time and show up in formation, get a ribbon. 2. Go to lunch and don't take too much time selecting your ice cream get a ribbon. 3. Rest from lunch, get a ribbon. 4. Graduate, get four or five ribbons.
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 7:10:41 PM EDT
Way off. It's not possible to graduate with more than three ribbons unless you see actual combat while in basic training, or something else really unusual happens. Those ribbons are: (Order of precedence, highest first, as worn) Basic Training Honor Graduate Ribbon, Small Arms Expert marksmanship Ribbon, Air Force Training Ribbon. [img]http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ima/ribbons/afhonor.jpg[/img][img]http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ima/ribbons/smallarms.jpg[/img][img]http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/ima/ribbons/aftrain.jpg[/img] The physical requirements for AF basic are probably virtually nothing compared to Marine boot camp, but it IS enough of a physical challenge that a certain percentage of recruits DO wash out for failure to meet the physical standard, which is quite reasonable as the standard is very reasonable. You don't have to dedicate much of your time to maintaining that level of fitness. But what the heck...we zoomies aren't going to be doing any amphibious assaults on various beaches or going door to door searching for fleeing terrorist. Instead we're going to be loading up the missiles, rockets, ammo, and bombs on the planes that have smashed the worst of the resistance you're fighting long before you got there. We do our jobs, you do yours, and we respect you for what you do. But do you respect US? I sure hope so, because we deserve it as much as you do. CJ
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 8:30:48 PM EDT
I always liked Air Force box lunches when we flew on Air Force transport. Much better than Marine chow. See I'm trying to be positive....
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 3:20:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2003 3:26:30 PM EDT by Slufstuff]
I went through AF basic in 1979. I am amazed at the differences listed by everybody, depending on what year you went through it. For example, I have never heard of TI's pulling tickets, we did not have such a thing that I remember. If they were in use, I never saw anybody in my flight with one. Also, this stuff about the mess hall in more recent years sounds a lot different that what I went through. The only restriction we had was no talking at the table until our last couple of weeks of basic. No drink restrictions, dessert was fine, no TI games, nothing like what the more recent years sound like. Never heard of any kind of part time basic program for ROTC participants. I had three years of ROTC in high school, but you did the exact same basic as everybody else. The only difference was you sewed on an E-3 or E-2 stripe AFTER the graduation day ceremony. It sounds like the BS level is a lot higher now. Don't get me wrong, my basic was no fun time by any means, but it sounds like we just had less meaningless crap to deal with. P.S. I went through before they started giving out ribbons JUST for finishing basic. Even I find that to be just a little much.
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 4:07:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BigMAK-Attack1: Hi Folks I know this isn't exactly an AR question, but I know there are a lot of Military folks on here, and the M-16 is the choice weapon, I figured I would ask. My Daughter is thinking of going into the Air Force and would like to get a head start on the whole basic training thing. Unfortunatly my manuals are about 30 years old (as she sits here laughing at me). Does anyone have a recent one that they would consider giving up for a good cause or possibly selling? We would greatly appreciate it. Thanks Guys
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You don't want mine but I had to chime in. Mine is from 1972! I won't part with it... It is a piece of my history. It is, by far, the best thing I ever did in my life..to join the Air Force then... It is the reason I have the career I have now. I wish it was a LAW to have all young people who turn 18, to go thru basic training and some type of schooling that the services can provide. I think it would teach dicipline and give everyone a career and a sense of accomplishment. This is what is lacking in today's young people... Besides, when I went in in '72', it was one hell of a good damn time. It straightened my ass out and I enjoyed the HELL OUT of IT!!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 5:55:58 PM EDT
Boy, does this thread kick start a lot of memories! Blending in definately saves your a** a lot. I raised my hand on the first day when the TI asked if anyone had "firefighting experience" and promptly became the trash can monitor! I liked the advice about knowing how to make a good bed, housekeeping is a big deal and if you can do it fast you will be a big help teaching the slower members of the flight. I found I had a knack for folding and properly stacking underwear thus becoming a sort of "advisor" for others with less of that particular important skill! Basic had its rough moments but I always felt that the TI's had our best interests at heart and that there was some method to the madness. My two cents would be to be physically prepared, mentally open and willing to work hard. Respect and support your fellow Airmen and take your lickings like a man (or woman) cause no one gets away totally unscathed! Would'nt worry too much about preparing with the book, they have their own methods to teach you and it works well (has for many years!)
Link Posted: 10/17/2003 6:26:43 PM EDT
Just one more thing to add, or clarify, actually. When I went through basic, when you got your uniform and the name tags were sewed on, you also got whatever stripes you were entitled to, and that was about seven days into training. Those extra stripes made no difference in the way you were treated except that you were maybe expected to perform a little better than someone with fewer stripes, but it wasn't much of a deal. When I went through was the transitional period between the plain green fatigues and the BDU's. When I entered basic, the flights that were within two or three weeks of graduating were in the pickle greens, some flights with 3 or 4 weeks to go were MIXED (and that was a funny thing to see), and the newest flights were all BDU's. I remember that at least one guy in my flight ended up with his name tape and his USAF tape switched on at least one of his uniforms. Name tape on the wrong side. Oddly enough, not even the TI's seemed to notice, nor did anyone but me as far as I could tell. CJ
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 7:26:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/18/2003 7:27:42 AM EDT by Cutter75]
Originally Posted By its2234me: I liked the advice about knowing how to make a good bed, housekeeping is a big deal and if you can do it fast you will be a big help teaching the slower members of the flight. I found I had a knack for folding and properly stacking underwear thus becoming a sort of "advisor" for others with less of that particular important skill
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As Squad leader I personally inspected everyone's locker before bed - to insure we pasted inspection in the morning (other Squad leader in our bay did the same thing)... Gave many a tutorial on folding underwear (wide as a dollar bill)... Some guys just couldn't do it right, so I did it for them - didn't want the gigs for my squad, and ultimately for the flight... I believe one of the reason we were Top Flight at Grad time was because we worked as a team to be squared away...
Besides, when I went in in '72', it was one hell of a good damn time. It straightened my ass out and I enjoyed the HELL OUT of IT!!!
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Ditto... one of the best experience I've had in life... another is owning my AR15, and shooting it... {grin} Edit note: added the AR15 comment so this thread would fit on this board - kind of give it some relevance to the 'black rifle'... [sniper2]
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 8:53:29 AM EDT
The BMTM 1 wont help her out very much. All its really used for is some stupid easy test towards the end of the 5th week and it gives you something to read when your doing the hurry up and wait bit. You do pt 6 days a week for about 2 hours. The PT requirements for the 2 mile run, push ups, and sit ups are almost exactly the same as the armys. You are given a PT test around your third day there and if you fail you get another somewhere around the 3rd week and if you fail that i believe you get another chance around the 5th week. In my flight the people who failed their pt test where made into road guards. Being a road guard didnt look like fun it involved alot of sprinting.
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 9:14:37 AM EDT
The metal tray that was in our lockers for holding small items was exactly six inches wide, the same width that your T-shirts are supposed to be when folded. Good to know, if they've still got those trays. No matter how much you want to do otherwise, when the lights go on or you hear the SWOOSH of a trash can flying down the aisle before hitting the floor as a wake-up call, GET OUT OF BED INSTANTLY. There's no way you're going to get any extra sleep that morning anyway, so forget about it and get to your feet. Arrival at Lackland is timed to occur about 9 or 10 PM, and what follows will be stressful. Every one in the flight will be singled out for abuse, and sometimes in stereo. (Both TI's at once, one on each side, giving conflicting orders. Just do as they say when they say and never look straight at either of them unless they're directly in front of you. DO NOT follow them with your eyes or turn your head. One will tell you to put down your bag and the other will tell you to pick it up. They'll trade off for a minute or so until they get bored or are satisfied that you'll do what you're told without a problem. You'll get into the mess hall at some point after midnight for a late dinner, and then on to your dorm room. All the bunks are the same so don't be too picky but their location can create interesting situations of their own. Middle of the row is generally better because it doesn't stand out so much. Row ends are in the spotlight, so to speak, and the bunks nearest the TI's office are of course most visible to the TIs. When you get to the dorm and you've got a bunk, you'll get to stand at attention for no apparent reason for what feels like forever, but it's really probably 15 minutes to half an hour. It IS enough to cause your vision to go nuts if you fixate on one point and stare at it the whole time. Things will disappear from your vision unless you slightly move your point of focus, so it's a good idea to look around a TINY little bit, like from one ear of the person across from you to his or her other ear. Don't be making googy faces at him or her, either! Really! The absolute last thing you'd ever want on your first night is to get anyone laughing. You'll stand at attention until breakfast if that happens! It's mostly a head game. When you know that, it's pretty easy to adapt to it. Just do as you're told and as well as you can, and from there on it's smooth sailing. Oh...when you get issued your uniforms, especially your footwear, make sure it's REALLY comfortable. Pick shoes and boots that give your toes more room than your civilian footwear because the cold weather socks are bulky and the last thing you want is to shove a size 10 foot into a size 9 shoe. I'm afraid I did that and on the first full day I had to wear them, they squeezed my toes so bad that the outside of my little toes went numb, and STAYED THAT WAY for six months! In fact, to this day the feeling in them isn't 100 percent and probably never will be! Oops..! You want your boots to almost be floppy on your feet. Not too loose, but definitely not tight or even firm. I did pick the right boots for me, and they were actually so comfortable I could have done my running in them without a problem. Back in '87 we were expected to bring a pair of shoes from home for running. I understand even those are issued to you these days, but if you do end up bringing your own (if they tell you to do so, do so), make sure they're in pretty good condition and are NOT covered with writing! Somebody did that in my flight, and when the TI's saw that, they hit the ceiling and sent him to the exchange annex IMMEDIATELY with orders to buy new shoes! CJ
Link Posted: 10/18/2003 9:44:08 AM EDT
I went through basic in June of 1973... Responding to [b]CMJOHNSON'S[/b] last post - We could not pick our bunks - the lined us up according to height, they made the first guy in each line squad leader, and marched us up to our dorm. The head of the line took the first bunk, next in line got the second, and so forth... I was second in line, and the first morning, as you said "GET UP, GET OUTTA BED"... My first thought was where am I - then, oh yeah, I joined the Air Force... So I sprung out of bed... The guy in the first bunk didn't even move - not a twitch... The TI grabbed the edge of the bed and dumped him on the floor, and repeated "I SAID GET OUTTA BED"... Poor guy looked around with and expression on his face that said 'where am I' (deja vu - my same thought)... TI looked at me and said "YOU ARE THE NEW SQUAD LEADER, AND IF YOU SCREW UP, THE NEXT GUY IN LINE WILL TAKE YOU PLACE"... Anyway that's how I got promoted... I agree on the boots, but don't get them TOO big, cause with your foot moving around on the inside with all the marching you have to do, you'll have blister in no time flat... If you normally wear a 10 - get a 10 1/2... When I left the Air Force, and I had to turn in my gear - the one thing I regret not taking with me was my combat boots. Those things had the nicest shine, and I'd worn them in, to where they fit and felt like a fine glove... My feet have never be so happy - miss my boots. Later on in life I bought a pair of combat boots from the exchange, and they just were not the same - didn't fit me well... somebody, somewhere is wearing some surplus boots that are mine... #%@#*&?#@ [sniper2]
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