Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 9/28/2003 11:44:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2003 6:24:05 PM EDT by DeathFRB]
While my first range experience with the P97 was very frustating (read the linked topic for details of that fiasco),

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=141379


Below I will review my experience with the P97 Carbon 15 pistol which I took to the range this afternoon.

I had recieved the pistol back from Bushmaster, yesterday (Saturday) and decided to re-clean and lubricate it. I clean using CLP in the barrel and wipe off most other areas and lubricate the bolt and trigger group using Tetra-Gun. The pistol, which can be seen on the front page of the Bushmaster website, uses a modified AR upper and lower reciever made of a carbon fiber.

Disassembly of the P97 is similar to a standard AR-15, except that once the two take down pins are punched out (they are not screws and are held in by tension) the recoil buffer assembly which consists of a rubber buffer that extends in to the upper reciever shoots forward under pressure from the recoil spring. There is no buffer retention pin, so when the takedown pins are out, get ready!

The bold carrier is chromed and VERY lightweight. The hexagonal screws that hold the gas key are staked in place. The bolt itself appears (APPEARS) to be of standard build. The Upper reciever is made completely of carbon fiber including the inside which is not lined. After the first few rounds go down range the bolt carrier moves smoothly within the upper.

The charging handle latch is plastic but the chargine rod that extends into the upper appears to be metal.

The gas tube over the barrel is protected by a metal shroud that extends from the upper reciever all the way to the metal gas block/front sight. The fron sight is a fixed component of the gas block and the gas is actually vented forwed in line with the barrel through a small hole located just above the crown of the barrel.

The recoil compensator is ingenious, and attaches via a spring loaded mechanism that uses three ball bearings to lock the break in place. As such the compensator is removable, though I would not recommend shooting the P97 without it.

The barrel is beautiful, the P97 has a fluted barrel and MAKE A NOTE that the light/(and laser :P ) mounts attach to the P97 on the fluting, so if you by the "lower" model type 21 Carbon 15 pistol you will not be able to mount the light accesories should you want them in the future.

The top of the upper features a flat surface tapped toward the front for an optional pic. rail now shown on their website which will allow the mounting of various optics (Including my reflex II which while not the best optic I own will be ideal for this little gun when it works but I get ahead of myself.)The top of the reciever is carbon fiber and the threaded tap looks a little flimsy for the job it is intended for but the upper also has rails on each side which I believe are there to stabilize the mount further.

The P97 comes in a white box (not a small black bushmaster box) and the instructions cover the field stripping of the Carbon-15 Rifles but surprisingly not the pistol!!!

Now for the Range:
I fired rounds from the following magazines:
Colt L/E 20 round magazines
Bushmaster 10 Round magazine (supplied with P97)
Rebuilt 30 round Adventure Lines magazine (rebuilt with Bushmaster Kit)

So how did it function:
For all of you who have owned the P.O. Carbon 15 pistol you will be relieved to know that after my first terrible experience at the range the pistol functioned:

FLAWLESSLY

With all the magazine mentioned and utilizing both IMI M193 and PMC 55 grain. Bushmaster also fired my P97 with Wolf (g-d help it) and I believe Federal with no malfunctions.

It fired all rounds (approximately 100) without failure and even when I held the P97 on the mag well which is probably not a good idea.

The P97 makes an incredible thundering deep throated noise when fired and that is followed or proceeded (forgot my physics) by the fireball in front of the weapon. For all those fireworks you would expect a nightmarish recoil and guess what:

I recoils VERY lightly for a .223/5.56mm calibered handgun. In fact once we have the ability to mount optics (which btw will cowitness with the iron sights if the Bushmaster picture of the mount is any indication), one should easily be able to make follow up shots with little delay. The P97 also handled the heat/friction/pressure of repeated rapid fire VERY WELL. The heavy barrel seemed to handle rapid fire better than my M4 profile . . . so that is impressive.

Overall, though we do not have a broken in, life-tested P97 to evaluate from, it appears that Bushmaster has worked the bugs out of the P97 that P.O. never quite worked out.

I am interested in learning what the velocity of the m193 rounds are coming out of a 7.25" barrel. I am also interested in seeing how the P97 holds up over time.

Link Posted: 9/28/2003 12:14:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2003 12:14:48 PM EDT by Shadowblade]
Glad to hear Bushmaster worked it out for you. When I "test" mine, I usually blow 800 - 1000 rounds of SA or Port. surplus through them. I'd be interested to hear how the P97 holds up to that [:)] What design changes have been made from the PO pistol?
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 1:15:55 PM EDT
1) You addresses recoil, not flash. Any report there? 2) Is this weapon clearly marked Bushmaster? Can a post bushy be identified from a pre po? I like the review, keep us updated, I too would like to hear a checkin at 1000 rounds or so and maybe again in 3000+....[;)] thanks
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 5:47:35 PM EDT
If I were looking for an inexpensive weapon to supply to resistance fighters, I would be willing to drop thousands of them to people on a different continent.
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 6:08:45 PM EDT
CavVet, 1) The fireball that comes out of the front of the P97 was substantial, enough to make other rangemasters walk over to see where the fireball was eminating from. If the flash you are referring to is something else, describe it and I will be happy to respond. 2) The lower receiver is clearly marked Bushmaster with the Snake/M17S logo imprinted in the magwell. Shadowblade, Yes, 800-1000 rounds definately seems more appropriate for a first review, unfortunately, after spending Approximatley $850 on the thing, I was too poor to by another case of ammo:) Besides, if you put my two reviews together, I have shot approximately 200 rounds through the P97 using many different magazines and ammo, bushmaster themselves did the same during the repair/assesment, and so my P97 has probably had about half of what you and I both would have preferred. Da_Bunny, In ten years we may be doing just that with Israel, I wish Bushmaster had dropped one on my apartment so I could help in the resistance against my checking book!
Link Posted: 9/28/2003 6:10:08 PM EDT
CavVet, 1) The fireball that comes out of the front of the P97 was substantial, enough to make other rangemasters walk over to see where the fireball was eminating from. If the flash you are referring to is something else, describe it and I will be happy to respond. 2) The lower receiver is clearly marked Bushmaster with the Snake/M17S logo imprinted in the magwell. Shadowblade, Yes, 800-1000 rounds definately seems more appropriate for a first review, unfortunately, after spending Approximatley $850 on the thing, I was too poor to by another case of ammo:) Besides, if you put my two reviews together, I have shot approximately 200 rounds through the P97 using many different magazines and ammo, bushmaster themselves did the same during the repair/assesment, and so my P97 has probably had about half of what you and I both would have preferred. Da_Bunny, In ten years we may be doing just that with Israel, I wish Bushmaster had dropped one on my apartment so I could help in the resistance against my checking book!
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 6:19:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2003 6:23:05 PM EDT by DeathFRB]
[img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/BarrelAttach.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/Ext.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/GasPort.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/InisdeLower.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/InsideExt.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/InsideUpper.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/P97.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/ReflexDot.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/SightPicture.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/StakedBoltCarrier.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.shafted.org/images/ryan/UpperLowerSep.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/4/2003 6:41:27 PM EDT
Cool. Can I get a better picture of the bolt carrier? Maybe from a couple different angles (side, bottom). Thanks
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 5:13:56 AM EDT
I just came back from firing my Carbon 15 97, Overall I like the quality, but I had multple failure to eject after about 70 rounds. Looking closer I notice the extractor spring is a little "soft" as compared to my other Ar-15 bolts. I 'm going to try a D fender, and heavy duty Wolff spring in hopes to correct the problem.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 5:32:22 AM EDT
Cool review, DeathFRB. I like the pictures also. Glad Bushy worked everything out for you.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 9:40:52 PM EDT
55 gr. rounds average 2300 f.p.s out of the 7.5 in. bbl.
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 7:44:44 AM EDT
Thanks for the chronometer reading, I had wondered what the 55gr. round would me moving at. I am actually pleasently surprised at that 2300 fps, although I realize it is 200-400 short of the optimal terminal ballistic velocity for maximum fragmentation . . . Of course the atomic fireball at the muzzle break might be a formidable psychological weapon if one were on the receiving end of it!
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 4:24:16 PM EDT
any idea why their is no buffer retaining pin? can you replace any of the parts of a p97 without violating the law ? can the upper reciver be changed out with a conventional ar ? what about the charging handle ? thanks
Top Top