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Posted: 9/22/2003 6:19:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 6:22:15 PM EDT by HK_Shooter_03]
I might be doing a preban AR with a masterkey and another upper with a M203. I saw the site that makes these and I forgot what it was. Can anyone chime in?

PS:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/knights_masterkey.html

I saw this and theres no freaking way Im putting on a $300 shotgun that cost more than my AR. I dont remember this as a price. Im sure if this is the price I can get a gunsmith to shorten an 870 and find the proper mounts.

EDIT:
Is there a way to fit a master key on an AR without a RAS. I just hate rails and the only way I could live with one is rail covers.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:34:34 PM EDT
I wanted to do the same thing myself but would go with an 18" bbl. so I wouldn't have the $200 tax to pay. I really wanted an M-2037, 37mm flare launcher but since you can't have any of the "fun" rounds(rubber buckshot, bean bag, ect.) I don't see much point. I really think a "less than lethal" bean bag load in a 37mm would come in handy for those "bump in the night" situations but the Feds spoiled that idea. Next thought was mounting one of my Remington 870 Express 20ga. shotguns under my AR. The barrel would stick out about 4" past the AR barrel and I don't think it would look right so I canned that Idea. Now I'm just going to save up my pennies and build a CAR-15 to match my AR(fluted stainless bbl, chrome bolt/carrier assy. , green trim. ) and be done with it. Talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:46:56 PM EDT
I have no problem going NFA. I really want real munitions not rubber. Is saw the rubber ammo but I would like lead better. Thats why I wanted a M203 with the 12 ga insert and the .22 cal 18 round shell.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 9:17:24 PM EDT
Where can you get the 12Ga insert for a 37MM flare launcher and what is comprised of the insert?
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 9:34:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 6:04:47 AM EDT
I know they are legal in a DD registered M203. Does the 40mm version work any better? Does anyone know what website you can find the masterkey on?
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 6:56:59 AM EDT
The 40mm M-203 can take a buckshot load or an adapter to shoot 12ga. shells but Troy is right about the 37mm M-2037, it's not designed to shoot high pressure ammo like the 203 is. If you don't mine spending the $200 bucks and letting the Feds know your business then go for it. I for one think that the less the government knows about the firearms I have the better. Talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 10:11:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: The 40mm M-203 can take a buckshot load or an adapter to shoot 12ga. shells but Troy is right about the 37mm M-2037, it's not designed to shoot high pressure ammo like the 203 is. If you don't mine spending the $200 bucks and letting the Feds know your business then go for it. I for one think that the less the government knows about the firearms I have the better. Talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
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Well I wanted a masterkey because I could get ammo cheaper ($300 22lr shell Only holds one shotgun shell at a time and buckshot and fletchette is $25 a shot). Plus the master key holds 3+1 instead of one shotgun shell with the M203. Does anyone know where I can find the website that sells the masterkey?
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 12:04:55 PM EDT
Is this not it? [url]http://www.impactguns.com/store/knights_masterkey.html[/url] You don't want it. I know it looks cool, and I've always wanted one myself, but you don't want it. If you don't mind going NFA, and if your state allows, you are better off going the SBS route with a short barrel, pistol grip, 870. Even better is staying non-NFA with an 18" barrel, full stock 810 with extended mag. The masterkey earned it's moniker for it's intended use as a breaching gun. It's easier for breachers to stick with one shotgun. I still don't understand, however, why it's so much. I'm sure a machine shop could build the required bracked easily enough.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 12:34:19 PM EDT
Unless you are trying to recreate government weapons, you don't want a masterkey type system. Stryfe is correct, it was designed for door breaching, nothing more. In practical terms, it makes the rifle very unbalanced, heavy, and somewhat difficult to manuever. Most teams I know of simply use a dedicated door breacher who stays out of the way, or transitions to pistol/rifle. Not all do this, just the few I know of. It looks much cooler than it really is. You seem to be concerned about ammo cost. If you are going to blow the money required for the M203, that should be your last concern. Even M203 practice ammo is expensive ($15-$25 a pop). Good luck trying to get the other types, if you can even afford it. I wish you well in anycase, and would love to have those things myself but they are too impractical for me, and I no longer have that kind of $$$ to blow - spend too much buying ammo for the MG's I already have.
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 12:39:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HK_Shooter_03: Is there a way to fit a master key on an AR without a RAS. I just hate rails and the only way I could live with one is rail covers.
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The Masterkey does not mount to the RAS, or any handguard system for that matter. It mounts just like the current M203: heel against the barrel nut/delta ring, and clamp over the barrel (i.e., you will need an M4-profile barrel with the step-cut to make it work). Also, part of the expense of the system is the QD clamp that comes installed. Hope this helps, Clint
Link Posted: 9/23/2003 1:53:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By havoc:
Originally Posted By HK_Shooter_03: Is there a way to fit a master key on an AR without a RAS. I just hate rails and the only way I could live with one is rail covers.
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The Masterkey does not mount to the RAS, or any handguard system for that matter. It mounts just like the current M203: heel against the barrel nut/delta ring, and clamp over the barrel (i.e., you will need an M4-profile barrel with the step-cut to make it work). Also, part of the expense of the system is the QD clamp that comes installed. Hope this helps, Clint
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The one shown at that link is rail mounted. I was initially going to suggest that he do it the original way, simply remove the lower hadguard. But, I changed it after taking a second look at the site.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 4:39:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stryfe: The one shown at that link is rail mounted. I was initially going to suggest that he do it the original way, simply remove the lower hadguard. But, I changed it after taking a second look at the site.
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No, it is not rail mounted. The shotgun is bolted to a special part that emulates the upper portion of an M203. Trust me on this.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 10:08:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Mike: Unless you are trying to recreate government weapons, you don't want a masterkey type system. Stryfe is correct, it was designed for door breaching, nothing more. In practical terms, it makes the rifle very unbalanced, heavy, and somewhat difficult to manuever. Most teams I know of simply use a dedicated door breacher who stays out of the way, or transitions to pistol/rifle. Not all do this, just the few I know of. It looks much cooler than it really is. You seem to be concerned about ammo cost. If you are going to blow the money required for the M203, that should be your last concern. Even M203 practice ammo is expensive ($15-$25 a pop). Good luck trying to get the other types, if you can even afford it. I wish you well in anycase, and would love to have those things myself but they are too impractical for me, and I no longer have that kind of $$$ to blow - spend too much buying ammo for the MG's I already have.
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Well I use my AR 16" for IPSC three gun and I would probably mount it underneath when Im just shooting for fun and remove it when I shoot competition. Mostly the IPSC stuff is under 100' (we did have one 300 yard stage). I would just mount this on my current upper when I wasnt in competition and use it for short range blasting. Since the bbl is so short I might as well get a dissipator upper and have a longer one. The company that was selling the Mkeys sold MGls and a M-14 collapsable stock. The price was nowhere near 2 grand.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 2:09:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By havoc:
Originally Posted By Stryfe: The one shown at that link is rail mounted. I was initially going to suggest that he do it the original way, simply remove the lower hadguard. But, I changed it after taking a second look at the site.
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No, it is not rail mounted. The shotgun is bolted to a special part that emulates the upper portion of an M203. Trust me on this.
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I knew that originally they were setup just like the 203, but in this instance, I mis-read the ad.
Shown here on the M4C, the Masterkey is the ultimate addition to an R.A.S.-equipped AR-15 or HK gun.
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I originally read it to mean the RAS was a requirement. Looking at the photo again, I don't see anything that would indicate it was mounted to the rail.
Link Posted: 9/24/2003 2:57:00 PM EDT
$1800? - WTF??? Take a look at this thread: [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=179688[/url] Or this site: [url]www.tntarmoury.homestead.com/TNT1.html[/url] Looks like the same deal, only about $1700 cheaper! [:D]
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 6:03:56 AM EDT
The MK refers to any number of manufacturers, not just the KAC stuff. There are two types of MK mounts, one RAS and one non-RAS. I've played with the non-RAS mount and I agree that it's awkward not to mention heavy. It does look cool though. As for a breaching shotgun, go with Stryfe's advice and go with a short barrel shotgun. Employ it from the weak side with a snap sling. As for IPSC 3gun, most stages require a transition from weapon to weapon, so your MK will probably be illegal for competition anyway.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 6:55:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SARguy: The MK refers to any number of manufacturers, not just the KAC stuff. There are two types of MK mounts, one RAS and one non-RAS. I've played with the non-RAS mount and I agree that it's awkward not to mention heavy. It does look cool though. As for a breaching shotgun, go with Stryfe's advice and go with a short barrel shotgun. Employ it from the weak side with a snap sling. As for IPSC 3gun, most stages require a transition from weapon to weapon, so your MK will probably be illegal for competition anyway.
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It is and I said I didnt want to use it for that. Just occasional short range shooting. I saw a company that made MKs and it cost about $500 for the mount and shottie.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 1:24:04 PM EDT
Got a link?
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