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Posted: 9/10/2003 10:06:48 AM EDT
I know that handguns, and "Assault Rifles" are registered firearms that are completely traceable.
But what about regular rifles and shotguns.

They are considered "unregulated".?.?.?

Obviously the conspiracy theory stuff is going to come up about the government knows everything.

But I want to know the official position.

Does the government know about, for example, my marlin model 60 22 LR I bought 5 years ago at Wal Mart???
Or was that paper work processed and then destroyed or lost by now or what?

I just bought a RRA HBAR, it was just the one form, not all the stupid handgun/assault paperwork. It was considered "unregulated". Will that still be in a government database in 6 months?

I am just interested in knowing the law.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 10:13:37 AM EDT
The FFL, store, etc. keep their copies and these can always be accessed. They are turned in when one closes up shop to the ATF. The only way to have guns Big Brother, and ultimately the U.N., does not know about is to buy only from individuals.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 10:17:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 10:18:30 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
The yellow 4473 form which you fill'd out, when you made your purchase, STAYS with the licensed FFL dealer. This form only goes to the BATF should that FFL dealer go out of business or should they have reason to come and check their records. Others may correct me if I'm wrong, but should they come to look at a FFL dealers records, they are not allowed to copy ALL his records, only those which may affect their investigation. So if you purchased your firearms at reputable, long term shops that are still in business, the only way your 4473 would end up in the BATFs records is as stated above "outta business" or firearms was used in commission of a crime or stolen. For those who purchase multiple firearms at one time, there is a second form, "multiple gun purchase form" that is filled out and sent to the BATF, this is to prevent someone from buying 50 pistols, driving to DC and sellin them outta the trunk of their car. Makin it easy to track, should gun be used in crime, and they find out yahoo (trunk dealer) bought 50 of 'em. Hope this helps, Mike
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 12:28:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 12:29:46 PM EDT by Black_Rifle]
Originally Posted By alaman: The FFL, store, etc. keep their copies and these can always be accessed. They are turned in when one closes up shop to the ATF. The only way to have guns Big Brother, and ultimately the U.N.,[red] does not know about is to buy only from individuals.[/red]
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True, but (Let's say), since I got my Ar15 from the store (or my lower via FFL) they will come looking for me to give it up, but because I sold it to you I am going to point them in your direction (just to save my ass). Here in NJ we are allowed to do private sales, but there is a special form we can fill for this type of sticky situation. So just to answer your question...everything is traceable. BR
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 12:44:45 PM EDT
I would find it hard to believe that they can trace any gun that doesn't have a serial number. Or any bolt gun that has the serial number on the barrel, and barrels can burn out. I would think that any unmarked gun that you didn't make (pre-68) would be rather untraceable even if you bought it through a dealer. OK, they would know you had a gun, but which one? It was a remington 22 rifle and it was a bolt action. So what. I got that from my grampa. The other one that I got from Mr, FFL wasn't in as good of condition and I wanted a pair of twins so I sold it. Then I used the money to buy this one here. I *think* I got from a guy named Ralph Nader when we met at a gas station at exit 74 on interstate 32. Except that interstate was redone, and they moved the exit to the other side. I think...damn, I might not have got it from him. Ok, I think that is the one I got with the signed letter of authenticity from Sarah Brady. No...really...I did! Get the picture? Buy from an individual and don't worry about it.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 12:53:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 12:53:43 PM EDT by warhorse]
Originally Posted By mjohn3006: I know that handguns, and "Assault Rifles" are registered firearms that are completely traceable.
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Gun registration? Who here has to register handguns or even assault rifles?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 1:18:35 PM EDT
Only buy from Individuals.....AND ther is no reg of assault weapons at all Maybe in CA but no as far as the ATF is concerned
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 1:28:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: For those who purchase multiple firearms at one time, there is a second form, "multiple gun purchase form" that is filled out and sent to the BATF, this is to prevent someone from buying 50 pistols, driving to DC and sellin them outta the trunk of their car. Makin it easy to track, should gun be used in crime, and they find out yahoo (trunk dealer) bought 50 of 'em. Unless your state specifies if only multiple handgun sales have to be reported by the FFL. Multiple longgun sales do not have to be reported, only recorded on the 4473 with all serial #'s.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 1:29:09 PM EDT
FFL's are required to keep your yellow form 4473's for 20 years, your multiple HANDGUN (not for rifles or shotguns) 3310.4 form must be kept for 5 years (Though copies are mailed to various agencies). your bound book of every transaction, though not as complete as yellow sheets, must be retained indefinitely. if your FFL closes up shop he has 30 days to get everything of his to the ATF. im waiting on my FFL to get here and reading up on the laws now...............
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:05:03 PM EDT
They know now.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:19:35 PM EDT
I don't have to worrie about the multipul gun form. I am registered as a collector, and that exempts me from that form. If an AR has a 16" or less barrel, it has to be registered as an assault rifle in Maryland. Which is one of the reasons I got a 20" I was just wondering since my collection is growing, I wondered what the goverment monitored, and I heard conflicting stories about "Unregulated" firearms, which only require the short form. 4 forms today to get my 40 cal Beretta 9000s. Damn I hate paperwork.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:25:21 PM EDT
me 'i don't know, i sold it to some dude at a gunshow'. i don't keep records.. the way they'll get rid of things is to start issuing FOID cards like in IL and registering AW's in CA. then they know who has them and since AW's are not transferreable (to my knoweldge) within CA it should be fairly easy for them to find the weapons in question.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:25:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:32:28 PM EDT
Can you bring your privately owned handgun to CA from another state or is that a no no like bringing my AR15?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:03:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:09:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mjohn3006: I know that handguns, and "Assault Rifles" are registered firearms that are completely traceable. But what about regular rifles and shotguns.
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Only if you live in a slave state is your gun "registered" or "traceable". Those of us who live in the Free States do not have this problem.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:16:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By oilman:
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: For those who purchase multiple firearms at one time, there is a second form, "multiple gun purchase form" that is filled out and sent to the BATF, this is to prevent someone from buying 50 pistols, driving to DC and sellin them outta the trunk of their car.
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Actually it doesn't prevent them from doing this at all. The gun a month club is designed to stop the straw purchases for resale. The purpose of this form was because Charles Whitman bought several guns the same day, and then went on a killing spree. In the 35 years it has been in existence, it has not prevented a single crime AFAIK. Also, It only applies to handguns within a 5 day period.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:33:14 PM EDT
When i lived in MA, I had to fill out the same form(Form 10?) when selling to a private party as I would fill out when buying at a FFL.That form had 3 copies... 1 to me, 1 to the buyer and 1 to the state of MA.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:39:38 PM EDT
The only way their getting mine, is from my 'cold dead hands'. I don't plan on lettin' that happen.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:43:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By warhorse: Gun registration? Who here has to register handguns or even assault rifles?
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Every handgun sold in the PRK is registered automatically as part of the transfer process (there are no private sales; all sales must go through an FFL in the PRK). And, of course, anything the PRK consideres an AW was supposed to have been registered in 2000, though compliance was estimated to be 5-10%. -Troy
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Whats a PRK?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 6:51:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By warhorse:
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By warhorse: Gun registration? Who here has to register handguns or even assault rifles?
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Every handgun sold in the PRK is registered automatically as part of the transfer process (there are no private sales; all sales must go through an FFL in the PRK). And, of course, anything the PRK consideres an AW was supposed to have been registered in 2000, though compliance was estimated to be 5-10%. -Troy
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Whats a PRK?
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People's Republic of Kalifornistan (or Kalifornia?)
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 9:41:17 PM EDT
Then again some of the tin foil boys figure the gummint already knows all and sees all ergo everything about what you got anyway they know and have a permanent swat team assigned fer your butt, so a formal registration is redundant. And then you have the gummint is hideously incompetent crowd, even if they had a registration today they ain't gonna be able to find it tomorrow. Me I figure they're in the middle somewhere. In other words with a little old fashioned leg work they can find out if you bought a gun from a dealer. Now if you was sloppy getting rid of it. Well, you can figure out how interested in it they may get depending on what it gets used for. It would take probably less than a day to finish the first legs of a trail on a recent Long gun of any kind. MFR to Distributor to Dealer, 2 calls and then an in person visit.
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