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Posted: 8/29/2003 9:06:13 AM EDT
OK, I know topics similar to this have been asked before but here goes...

I have money saved up to buy a pre-ban AR. Reason - I can actually put whatever "evil" features on it if I want to. Muzzlebrake is nice, but why not Phantom FH?

A2 stock OK, A1 OK, but Stubby stock is too short; solution=telescoping stock.

With my Post ban M4forgery I can't do these things. The biggest issue for me is the stock. I have pondered purchasing the ACE skeleton stock to try that out.

Anyway, should I wait till Sept. 04' and just by a telescoping stock, or buy a pre-ban rifle now? If the ban stays in effect then the price of that pre-ban rifle will most likely go up.

What to do?
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:19:30 AM EDT
either way its a gamble, right now prebans are everywhere and the prices are great.............if you think the ban is going to stay, buy, buy, buy NOW. if you think the ban will fade away, wait a year and buy a brand new gun. personally i think the ban is, unfortunately enough, here to stay.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:20:04 AM EDT
I think you are in the same situation that alot of other people are... It's a question of gambling...if you think the ban will stay in effect, or will become a permanant fixture, then now really is the time to buy. However if not, then prices are likely to be as low as ever seen on them. So the question has to go right back into your corner, do you feel lucky? LOL. No one can tell the future. If you can, money really wouldn't be a problem now would it? laugh. I haven't told you anything you don't already know. I guess you have to ask yourself if you buy now, and prices go down, how bad are you REALLY going to feel?
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:23:40 AM EDT
If you want it, buy it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:23:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:32:32 AM EDT
I say if you have the money then buy it. If it goes away, oh well. If it doesn't you'll be happy you did. I have one and love it. It's a Bushmaster and I am very happy with it. I am sure you'll be happy too. Max
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:32:34 AM EDT
Buy easily converted postbans now. That's what I did. I have eight ARs all post ban. When the ban goes away I'll be ordering a bunch of tele stocks, taking off a bunch of pinned on brakes and ordering some front sights with bayo lugs.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:33:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TheRicker: If everyone waits to buy, they'll pass a new ban. But, if we buy as many as we can now, the ban will expire. Damn that Murphy.
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Ricker is absolutely right. I'm sure the ban will expire because I have two pre-bans. However, that wouldn't prevent me from buying another if the right deal came along. Flip a coin [;)]
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:44:34 AM EDT
If everyone waits to buy, they'll pass a new ban. But, if we buy as many as we can now, the ban will expire. Damn that Murphy.
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[LOL] this is an excellent point...... maybe i'll alter my stance.......since i just bought a pre-ban you can now bet that the ban will sunset!!
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:47:39 AM EDT
That's been my problem of course. I buy a pre-ban (lower or whole rifle) and in another year there is no more pre-ban, prices fall, and my $1400 gun is now work $900. I guess its in how much I need it RIGHT NOW compared to my patience.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:08:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By innocent_bystander: Buy easily converted postbans now. That's what I did. I have eight ARs all post ban. When the ban goes away I'll be ordering a bunch of tele stocks, taking off a bunch of pinned on brakes and ordering some front sights with bayo lugs.
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But if it stays, in a more radical form, you may never be able to have all of the nice features.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:12:59 AM EDT
Buy and buy them now or forever regret....
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:24:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ar10er: But if it stays, in a more radical form, you may never be able to have all of the nice features.
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Then they would have to pass an unconstitutional ex post facto law. The ban effecting what are now post bans expires in Sept 04. Any new legislation will only effect rifles produced after the new law takes effect. The current law cannot be renewed, a new law must be passed.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:39:30 AM EDT
INNOCENT BYSTANDER: I realize they cannot extend the existing ban, but we could be subjected to another identical (or more prohibitive) law. Don't read me wrong, I hate this BS ban. If it goes away I want to get some new AR10 mags and high-cap mags for pistols (at a fair price). If it does go away it will be big business for the gun industry again, and they need it! And maybee, just maybee this country will finally move beyond the damned old 1911 pistol.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:53:33 AM EDT
Look at it this way, if you buy a preban now, you'll have it. Then, a year from now, you'll forget you paid the extra for the lower reciever, and you'll have a preban. Who cares what happens to the ban! I've also signed on to the Murphy's law bit. Two prebans and a post here in Hokie's house.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 11:02:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2003 11:10:19 AM EDT by sfcret]
Originally Posted By wgjhsafT: OK, I know topics similar to this have been asked before but here goes... I have money saved up to buy a pre-ban AR. Reason - I can actually put whatever "evil" features on it if I want to. Muzzlebrake is nice, but why not Phantom FH? A2 stock OK, A1 OK, but Stubby stock is too short; solution=telescoping stock. With my Post ban M4forgery I can't do these things. The biggest issue for me is the stock. I have pondered purchasing the ACE skeleton stock to try that out. Anyway, should I wait till Sept. 04' and just by a telescoping stock, or buy a pre-ban rifle now? If the ban stays in effect then the price of that pre-ban rifle will most likely go up. What to do?[thinking]
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realistically you're going have to extend the stock in order to shoot it properly....the only advantage I see with a collapasable stock is that you can make it shorter to stow it away. other then that, you'll never going to need the stock collapased. now with that said, is it worth speding a few hundred dollars more just so you can collapse a stock, that for all intent and purposes you'll never use? why not use that money you would have spent on a pre-ban to buy mags, rounds and other stuff for it. a pre-ban will not shoot any better then a post ban. as for the bayonet lug.....come on now truthfully are you ever going to put a bayonet on it? and as for a FH, is it really necessary? are you going to put on a night sight on it? here is what I would do, if the ban dies, you can always buy a collapsable stock for it. also, realize that pre-ban are used rifles, with god knows how many rounds went through them, or how they where maintained.....and don't be gulliable to believe some of the rediculous claims, only 200 rounds fired etc... a used rifle is just that, a used rifle.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 11:04:17 AM EDT
I am buying every post ban lower I can find. and preban uppers and CHEAP preBANS... 1 if the ban goes away I'll have lots of AR's and can sell these under priced post ban units at a small profit or break even 2 If the ban gets worse I just tripled my money 3 If the ban stay the same I have lost nothing because these rifles and this economy is cause people to sell very cheap!!!!! I am also buying every preban upper I can find... because if the ban gets worse they may ban preban upper to LE only......... think About that!
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 11:05:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sfcret: realistically you're going have to extend the stock in order to shoot it properly....the only advantage I see with a collapasable stock is that you can make it shorter to stow it away. other then that, you'll never going to need the stock collapased. now with that said, is it worth speding a few hundred dollars more just so you can collapse a stock, that for all intent and purposes you'll never use? why not use that money you would have spent on a pre-ban to buy mags, rounds and other stuff for it. a pre-ban will not shoot any better then a post ban. as for the bayonet lug.....come on now truthfully are you ever going to put a bayonet on it? and as for a FH, is it really necessary? are you going to put on a night sight on it? here is what I would do, why not just buy a post ban, and if the ban dies, you can always put a collapsable stock on it.
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I've heard this many times before. Of course if the telestock is the only feature I am looking for, and its not totally necesarry to the functionality of the rifle, then I will wait. I guess I am getting paranoid over the whole AWB thing.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 11:12:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sfcret:
Originally Posted By wgjhsafT: OK, I know topics similar to this have been asked before but here goes... I have money saved up to buy a pre-ban AR. Reason - I can actually put whatever "evil" features on it if I want to. Muzzlebrake is nice, but why not Phantom FH? A2 stock OK, A1 OK, but Stubby stock is too short; solution=telescoping stock. With my Post ban M4forgery I can't do these things. The biggest issue for me is the stock. I have pondered purchasing the ACE skeleton stock to try that out. Anyway, should I wait till Sept. 04' and just by a telescoping stock, or buy a pre-ban rifle now? If the ban stays in effect then the price of that pre-ban rifle will most likely go up. What to do?[thinking]
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realistically you're going have to extend the stock in order to shoot it properly....the only advantage I see with a collapasable stock is that you can make it shorter to stow it away. other then that, you'll never going to need the stock collapased. now with that said, is it worth speding a few hundred dollars more just so you can collapse a stock, that for all intent and purposes you'll never use? why not use that money you would have spent on a pre-ban to buy mags, rounds and other stuff for it. a pre-ban will not shoot any better then a post ban. as for the bayonet lug.....come on now truthfully are you ever going to put a bayonet on it? and as for a FH, is it really necessary? are you going to put on a night sight on it? here is what I would do, if the ban dies, you can always buy a collapsable stock for it. also, realize that pre-ban are used rifles, with god knows how many rounds went through them, or how they where maintained.....and don't be gulliable to believe some of the rediculous claims, only 200 rounds fired etc... a used rifle is just that, a used rifle.
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It is worth it to me because I'm mounting a sound suppressor on it. I'm getting a new preban (NIB Colt) today knowing that if the AWB sunsets, all I did was lose a little money. I stand to lose a lot more if it gets reauthorized and prebans shoot up to where MGs are now.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 1:02:03 PM EDT
I agree. The flash hider, the collapsible stock, and the ability to install a suppressor are the big three reasons I want a preban. No limitations! I thought about buying a new post ban lower with a stubby stock for a NFA upper, but I still could not have the suppressor, and I might want to extend the stock, if needed. Don't call it a gamble, call it what it is. Speculation. Those that speculate that no new laws will be passed, and do not buy those 'more expensive' guns may miss out if a law does pass. If one thinks that a new law will pass, and he or she does buy 'expensive' prebans now, what he or she has done is bought an insurance policy. Basically, that policy insures that the owner will not be left out if a new law passes. FWIW, you should buy the preban stuff because some sort of law will most assuredly make it through. The demokommies will not stop, and the press is their willing accomplice.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 1:20:36 PM EDT
I think you guys missed my point. The AWB will sunset and everything that is now postban will be preban next September. There will be no law left to effect them. Now whether or not new legislation is enacted to cover rifles manufactured after September 04 is not known.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 1:25:57 PM EDT
"Any law, which makes criminal an act that was not criminal when done, or which inflicts a greater punishment than the law annexed to the crime when committed, is an ex post facto law. For example, a law cannot be created tomorrow which will hold a person responsible for something he or she does today. Laws are binding only from the date of their creation or from some future date at which they are specified as taking effect. Article I, Section 9 of the constitution makes clear that Congress cannot pass a law which criminalizes or penalizes activities committed before the enactment of a law."
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 1:41:24 PM EDT
IB, Your wrong with regards to Feinstein's bill. It ELIMINATES the sunset So if that ban is passed (S 1034) the sunset is preempted and the ban is TOTALLY PERMANENT! CRC
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 1:48:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By innocent_bystander: "Any law, which makes criminal an act that was not criminal when done, or which inflicts a greater punishment than the law annexed to the crime when committed, is an ex post facto law. For example, a law cannot be created tomorrow which will hold a person responsible for something he or she does today. Laws are binding only from the date of their creation or from some future date at which they are specified as taking effect. Article I, Section 9 of the constitution makes clear that Congress cannot pass a law which criminalizes or penalizes activities committed before the enactment of a law."
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Well there are many here that would not dispute the fact, that, the congress has passed many unconstitutional laws.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 1:57:13 PM EDT
Then we'll have grounds to fight the new law on.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 2:09:54 PM EDT
also, realize that pre-ban are used rifles, with god knows how many rounds went through them, or how they where maintained.....and don't be gulliable to believe some of the rediculous claims, only 200 rounds fired etc...
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there are plenty of honest NIB prebans being sold right now, i just bought one. i am also selling an armalite in the EE that "has had less than 200 rounds through it" i know for a fact it has had that amount of rounds through it because it was my only .308 and i bought ammo for it, using the masterful skill of subtraction i have estimated it has less than 200 rounds through it. that's an honesty issue with the seller................
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 2:20:54 PM EDT
innocent_bystander, this is my understanding as to what Ex Post Facto means, as it was explained to me in Constitutional Law in college (after a few Political Science classes like this, I saw Biology was a much better major, but that’s another story) The concept of ex post facto apples to holding one criminally responsible without the opportunity to change. For example, if the law said “It is a criminal offence to have owned a weapon with features X, Y and Z that was produced after September 13, 1994”, then that is ex post facto, since its making a law about your activity AFTER you have done it and could not have know a law would exist in the future. Now, if it said “It is a criminal offence to own a weapon with feature X, Y and Z that was produced after September 13, 1994”, then it is NOT ex post facto, since you do have the opportunity to rectify the situation to be in compliance. Grandfathering, albeit a common practice, is NOT a right. As I said, this was only one class in college, and I could be entirely wrong, but that is how it was explained to me.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 2:37:37 PM EDT
The government does not have to worry about what is legal, or not legal; but instead the legislators will do what they want. If there was any concern for legal or not legal, the right to bear arms would not be infringed. In 2004 those in power will do what they want to do. Then the NRA will pass out handjobs to congress and send out junkmail about how they need money for the right to keep and bear hunting arms.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 2:38:07 PM EDT
I don't think there is an absolute on this one, the courts will have to interpret all of this. But I think buying cheap pre/postbans is a safe practice. From Black's law dictionary ex post facto law: A law that applies retroactively, esp. in a way that negatively affects a person's rights, as by criminalizing an action that was legal when committed. Now maybe if a new ban is passed before the old one expires, we have a problem.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 3:01:18 PM EDT
IB , Two quick points... First all they have to do when they re-write the AWB is use the original date. Any weapon manufactured after Sept.... 199.. is considered preban..... those manufactured after Sept .... 199... are to be considered post ban. Secondly... Remember that they have already past retroactive laws... Ask anyone with a domestic violence conviction, especially ask him when the took away his right to own firearms for a misdemeanor conviction.... Even though the arrest was years before the gun laws said it was a disabling arrest... Yeah IB I trust the courts and politicians to do the right thing... hahahahahaha
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 4:55:21 PM EDT
I say go for it. I just did and won't regret buying a pre-ban lower if they do enact another AWB. I should have got a pre-ban in the first place. Now to address a few points that were brought up by some folks.
Originally Posted By sfcret: realistically you're going have to extend the stock in order to shoot it properly....the only advantage I see with a collapasable stock is that you can make it shorter to stow it away. other then that, you'll never going to need the stock collapased. now with that said, is it worth speding a few hundred dollars more just so you can collapse a stock, that for all intent and purposes you'll never use?
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A collapsible stock is [b]essential[/b] if you want to be able to use a rifle for CQB-type training [b]and[/b] long-range (100 yds +) shooting. You can't position a rifle comfortably in a CQB stance without a short stock. If you want to do CQB type stuff, you either need a stubby stock or a collapsible stock and, for most people, a stubby stock is not very comfortable for anything but CQB type shooting. This is exactly why I bought a pre-ban lower. wgjhsafT, you should consider what you're going to use your rifle for. Doing so will help you decide if you need a collapsible stock. Flash hiders are also "essential" if you want to shoot at night and not kill your night vision (I'm not referring to a NVD). The good flash hiders (the Vortex and Phantom) either completely eliminate muzzle flash or come pretty darn close. I would agree that bayonet lugs are pretty useless to 99.999% of us. The only reason to have one is that it pisses off anti-gunners like Feinswine.
Originally Posted By sfcret:a used rifle is just that, a used rifle.
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As far as buying a [b]used[/b] rifle, if that concerns you (as far as the # of rnds that really went down the bbl), get an Olympic pre-ban lower then buy a brand-new, straight from the factory pre-ban upper. If anything ever happens to your Olympic pre-ban lower (it breaks into little pieces which will probably never happen with a forged lower), you can send the pieces back to Olympic and they will rebuild it (ti would still be a preban) for the price of a new lower (around $180 or so). Consider this wgjhsafT. What do you think pre-bans will be going for it they enact another permanent AWB? I really hope the whole AWB fades into the sunset and nothing else takes its place. If so, I'm buying a RRA collapsible stock and putting it on my post-ban receiver so I'll have two lowers with collapsible stocks.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 5:38:59 PM EDT
I would agree that bayonet lugs are pretty useless to 99.999% of us. The only reason to have one is that it pisses off anti-gunners like Feinswine.
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you could always stab still moving feral hogs..........just as easy, and cleaner to just shoot them again though.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 5:50:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: It is worth it to me because I'm mounting a sound suppressor on it. I'm getting a new preban (NIB Colt) today knowing that if the AWB sunsets, all I did was lose a little money. I stand to lose a lot more if it gets reauthorized and prebans shoot up to where MGs are now.
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Suppressor is the only reason why I have even glanced at pre-bans in the EE. When I get some money saved up I'm gonna go ahead and get a pre-ban for that reason. To me the collapsible stock, bayo lug, and flash hider are pointless. I've never seen a reason posted worthy of the extra $$$.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 8:15:50 PM EDT
TODAY it is not legal to own an "assault weapon" manufactured after the '94 date. If they pass another assault weapons ban BEFORE the sunset of the current law they can still use that '94 date because no one can LAWFULLY own one NOW. If they let it sunset without another law to take its place, it would seem likely that they would have to set a new start date for "preban" status. That being said, be prepared to put on collapsible stocks, flash-hiders and bayonet lugs THE DAY AFTER THE CURRENT BAN SUNSETS and take pictures with serial numbers showing. Just my $2 worth (adjusted for inflation).
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 8:39:26 PM EDT
I disagreee that prebans won't go any lower. I know they have dropped from their highs but if the assault weapon ban sunsets they are nothing more than used postbans. The exception would be collectors items. Colt lowers going from $750-$1100 will be worth $300. Why would they be worth more. With six months to go they will be lower big time. With a couple of months to go they will lose almost all of their preban value. If the ban gets renewed the prices will go back up to where they were a year ago. If paying the price for a preban doesn't bother you go for it. But think of how many times you will shoot until then and think of the extra nice accessories you could buy with the extra money.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 8:44:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2003 8:47:16 PM EDT by Lockedon]
Here are two things to think about: 1) If you wait until you know more about what will happen come sep. '04, prices of pre-bans may SKY-ROCKET, if it turns out that a newer tougher ban comes into place. 2) It is my understanding, that even IF a new law is passed, the AWB will vanish september 2004. It will be as if a ban NEVER EXISTED!!! Which means, that regardless of what new ban/law they issue after that day, all our ARs will become prebans! Because the a new law takes in affect that day, and anything made after sep. 04 will become a Post-ban. I could be wrong, but thats what i've learned from the many posts and responses reagarding the AWB so far. bottom line: GET THE PREBAN...you have nothing to lose but money, and that you will regain over time anyway. Thats what money is for anyway right? to be spent. However if things turn out for the worse, you might not be able to get a preban ever again! You can always earn more money, but relatively cheap prebans may not be around for much longer, and you'll regret not having bought that preban. Personally, I wish i was around before 1981, when i could have bought a M16 lower, and sold it today for nearly 10 grand. I'm intending to buy a preban come the next gunshow or two and i advise you to do the same IMHO
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 8:48:16 PM EDT
Buy a preban Like a Colt Gov't Carbine. That will always be a commodity with value.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:47:46 PM EDT
Even if the ban goes away, you won't have to spend the money on a new barrel w/flash suppresor, threads, and bayo lug or a real telestock on your postban- that alone is probably worth $250-300 plus labor...
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 5:46:05 AM EDT
It seems the only things that many of you miss are the flash hiders and collapsable stocks. What about high cap mags....No one has said anything about these! They may ban them all together, then we will only have 10 rounders to use. I have a nice stash of quality 20 rounders and a few high quality 30 rounders. To me that would be worse than no flash hider or shorty stock!!!!![>Q] What do you think guys?
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 1:10:01 PM EDT
Pre-ban buy - do it or wait? Do it. In the end we will be sold out yet again.
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 2:38:59 PM EDT
Back to the original issue, "Should I buy this pre-ban AR15?" Go pick it up in you hands, look it over carefully, if the condition is acceptable to you, the configuration is what you want and the price fits in your budget. BUY IT. I bought a nice SP1 carbine a while back for $1000. It has seen a lot of use (perhaps 85% finish condition), but is 100% reliable. I wanted one of these for years, I was content with the condition and the price seemed fair to me. The worst that could happen is it is worth a couple hundred dollars less next year. If you really like the weapon this willbe moot and besides in a few more years all AR's will catch up to it in price anyway. If the ban is replaced with another nasty law your investment will continue to go up in value. If I interpet Innocent Bystander correctlty, we will be able to legally add colapsible stocks and other evil features to the present post-ban rifle s after 9-2004. This would be COOL! If you are on a tight budget remember there is nothing wrong with the present manufactured post ban rifles. I recently buily up a real nice one with an ARFX stock, Eagle stripped lower, J&T lower parts kit and a DPMS flattop upper with 16" light/med barrel and Cavalry Arms CAV COMP. It looks good and shoots better, cost me about $670. It was inexpensive until I added an EOTech sight on it and an ARMS 40 flip up rear sight for back-up. You could go with a regular 'carry handle' upper with the good A2 sights and a regular A2 buttstock and stay well under $660
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 3:10:57 PM EDT
muWAHAHAHA.....and here, folks, is why I need a preban. [img]http://sniper.rsvs.net/M4Quiet.JPG[/img] It was a good afternoon...
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 10:28:21 PM EDT
Rot- row. Someone is begging to be Photoshopped!
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 10:36:32 PM EDT
I think some folks are not seeing the whole picture here. The current ban WILL expire in 9/04, no ifs ands or buts. The thing is, between now and then, a new law could be passed, before it is legal again to manufacture a SAW, and retain the 9/94 date, effectively maintaining status quo. Or it could be worse. They could outlaw any future manufacture of what are now known as post-bans, and make two tiers Pre 94 bans, and Pre 04 bans. More than likely it will just go away. But weird things have happened....
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 6:32:08 AM EDT
I'm placing my bets... I'm buying a pre-ban and post ban, and making an 80%. I'm buying another pre-ban just in case, a post ban for a rifle that doesn't need any pre-ban features, and building an 80% BECAUSE I CAN.[nuts]
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 8:15:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2003 8:26:32 AM EDT by KY-Bob]
Originally Posted By wgjhsafT:
Originally Posted By sfcret: realistically you're going have to extend the stock in order to shoot it properly....the only advantage I see with a collapsible stock is that you can make it shorter to stow it away. other then that, you'll never going to need the stock collapsed. now with that said, is it worth spending a few hundred dollars more just so you can collapse a stock, that for all intent and purposes you'll never use? why not use that money you would have spent on a pre-ban to buy mags, rounds and other stuff for it. a pre-ban will not shoot any better then a post ban. as for the bayonet lug.....come on now truthfully are you ever going to put a bayonet on it? and as for a FH, is it really necessary? are you going to put on a night sight on it? here is what I would do, why not just buy a post ban, and if the ban dies, you can always put a collapsible stock on it.
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I've heard this many times before. Of course if the telestock is the only feature I am looking for, and its not totally necessary to the functionality of the rifle, then I will wait. I guess I am getting paranoid over the whole AWB thing.
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If you only shoot your rifle on warm sunny days, then you will be fine. Throw on a winter coat or a pair of coveralls and you will see the utility of a collapsing or adjustable stock. All those extra clothes throw of your length of pull and change your cheekweld, as well as you sight picture and probably your point of impact. Bob
Link Posted: 8/31/2003 8:18:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2003 8:20:45 PM EDT by tivoli410]
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: muWAHAHAHA.....and here, folks, is why I need a preban. [url]http://sniper.rsvs.net/M4Quiet.JPG[/url] It was a good afternoon...
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SSSWWWWWWWEEETT!! CONGRATS QS!!!!!! you get out and shoot it yet?!?! I want a range report ASAP. edited to add: Wanna fill us in on the suppressor? gemtech? I'm really interested in your new toy if you havent noticed [:D]
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