Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 8/20/2003 4:32:34 AM EDT
I noticed that Bushmaster is now selling the Carbon rifles and pistols.
Any feed back on reliability yet?
Did they solve the problems that the old OAs used to have?
I'd like to get one, but no way am I going to pay $1095.00 for a jam-o-matic.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 5:01:26 AM EDT
Those are the exact same as the professional ordnance carbon 15 guns. They just have bushmaster stamped on the receiver now...
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 5:03:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 5:06:23 AM EDT
I wonder what exactly they changed/improved on the rifles to make them more reliable? Or is it just better QC that they are counting on?
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 5:09:37 AM EDT
With a little tweaking the POR work perfect. When I got mine there was a magazine issue. Every time I used a 30 rd it would jam. The I noticed the magazine well was not molded exactly. I measured the width from top to bottom and noticed it varied. The bottom was to wide. I bonded some Carbon Fiber in the back of the magazine well and did a test run. It worked perfect. The gun was reaching a thousand round when I had a failure. I did a quick field clean and off to another 300 rds! I have sense fixed a few Carbon 15's and all run perfect. I have polished the feed ramps on mine and others and a new bolt in one. I noticed that on some were the barrel extension comes out of the inside of the upper the carbon looked built up. I noticed scratch marks from the round entering the chamber on the upper. I then noticed like a little fraying of carbon was also in the way of the fee ramps. So I sanded this all down and polished the ramps. Kind of like the new M4 upper feed ramps. I also added a new gas tube to mine and another. From what I figured they are decent weapons. I have said this before in the past. It's a AR15 design it should work. I believe it was just quality control issues. If I could fix the problem in a few then they probably got it licked. Like I said it was most likely a quality control issue with POR. The design works. I have noticed a new problem. The tip of the charging handle were the gas tube enters is bending. I suspect it's because I have a really strong recoil spring and I must have charged it a couple of hundred times sense I got it working. There had been a few times when I yanked it on an open bolt during a seize fire.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 6:03:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HunterGren: Those are the exact same as the professional ordnance carbon 15 guns. They just have bushmaster stamped on the receiver now...
View Quote
And you know this how? You have proof that BUshmaster made no changes/improvements? You have a new sample to show its problems? Please explain.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 6:05:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wave: Held one in my hands yesterday at the gunshop. I kept thinking, neat idea but why would I want one?
View Quote
Big burly muscle man like you probably wouldnt...however, my 118 lb wife is really wanting to get one. [;)]
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 6:07:15 AM EDT
I bought one while it was still PO. It's been running pretty good. I think I'll have it 100% the next time out. Here - [url=http://groups.msn.com/ThePennsylvaniaAR15ShootersSite/carbon15review.msnw][b]Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 Type 20 Review[/b][/url]
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:44:14 AM EDT
If I am putting 1K down for a gun I shouldn't have to rebuild it.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 8:03:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chdaal4: If I am putting 1K down for a gun I shouldn't have to rebuild it.
View Quote
I couldn't agree with that statement more. If I spend 1k it had better run when it comes out of the box. I don't want to have to rebuild a mag well or polish feedramps or the like.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 8:16:29 AM EDT
I paid $600 and I haven't had to fix anything. The last of the PO guns had the bugs worked out.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:13:21 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Originally Posted By HunterGren: Those are the exact same as the professional ordnance carbon 15 guns. They just have bushmaster stamped on the receiver now...
View Quote
And you know this how? You have proof that BUshmaster made no changes/improvements? You have a new sample to show its problems? Please explain.
View Quote
ARE YOU F-CKING HAPPY NOW? www.bushmaster.com "Bushmaster is proud to announce that it has acquired the assets of Professional Ordnance Inc. in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. We are ... Description: Offers a wide range of AR15/M16 parts, accessories, and complete weapons. Also provides sights, scopes" Further more I dont think I like you in fact I hate people that have to question everyone elses comments so Im not going to respond to ANYTHING you write . Have a nice day
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:22:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2003 10:23:12 AM EDT by DaPhotoGuy]
Originally Posted By HunterGren:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Originally Posted By HunterGren: Those are the exact same as the professional ordnance carbon 15 guns. They just have bushmaster stamped on the receiver now...
View Quote
And you know this how? You have proof that BUshmaster made no changes/improvements? You have a new sample to show its problems? Please explain.
View Quote
ARE YOU F-CKING HAPPY NOW? www.bushmaster.com "Bushmaster is proud to announce that it has acquired the assets of Professional Ordnance Inc. in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. We are ... Description: Offers a wide range of AR15/M16 parts, accessories, and complete weapons. Also provides sights, scopes" Further more I dont think I like you in fact I hate people that have to question everyone elses comments so Im not going to respond to ANYTHING you write . Have a nice day
View Quote
Nothing you've posted proves Bushmaster hasn't made any changes to the Carbon 15 rifle. I on the other hand have written Bushmaster asking what (if anything) they have changed since Professional Ordnance built them. I will let you know what I hear back from Bushmaster. P.S. - Take three deep breaths and CHILL OUT!
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:38:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HunterGren:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Originally Posted By HunterGren: Those are the exact same as the professional ordnance carbon 15 guns. They just have bushmaster stamped on the receiver now...
View Quote
And you know this how? You have proof that BUshmaster made no changes/improvements? You have a new sample to show its problems? Please explain.
View Quote
ARE YOU F-CKING HAPPY NOW? www.bushmaster.com "Bushmaster is proud to announce that it has acquired the assets of Professional Ordnance Inc. in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. We are ... Description: Offers a wide range of AR15/M16 parts, accessories, and complete weapons. Also provides sights, scopes" Further more I dont think I like you in fact I hate people that have to question everyone elses comments so Im not going to respond to ANYTHING you write . Have a nice day
View Quote
Um ok. I was hoping maybe you had something showing they didnt, because they are saying they did, and if they didnt, I didnt want to bother with my wife getting one. Pardon me for seeking info. Nice to see the new folks are so open to questions and conversations. Note to self, HunterGren doesnt like questions. Carry on.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:42:36 AM EDT
I just got off the phone with Leon at Bushmaster. He said the improvements to the Carbon 15 rifles are: 1. Useage of a "Milspec" bolt. I'm sure he means standard AR-15 bolt like Bushmaster uses in their other guns. 2. Modification of feedramps. 3. 5.56 chamber 4. Barrel extension modification 5. Take down pin location change. The Carbon 15 uppers will now fit and evidently function on a standard AR-15 lower. FWIW.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:48:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By G-CODE: I just got off the phone with Leon at Bushmaster. He said the improvements to the Carbon 15 rifles are: 1. Useage of a "Milspec" bolt. I'm sure he means standard AR-15 bolt like Bushmaster uses in their other guns. 2. Modification of feedramps. 3. 5.56 chamber 4. Barrel extension modification 5. Take down pin location change. The Carbon 15 uppers will now fit and evidently function on a standard AR-15 lower. FWIW.
View Quote
Hmmmmm, Interesting
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 11:46:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By G-CODE: I just got off the phone with Leon at Bushmaster. He said the improvements to the Carbon 15 rifles are: 1. Useage of a "Milspec" bolt. I'm sure he means standard AR-15 bolt like Bushmaster uses in their other guns. 2. Modification of feedramps. 3. 5.56 chamber 4. Barrel extension modification 5. Take down pin location change. The Carbon 15 uppers will now fit and evidently function on a standard AR-15 lower. FWIW.
View Quote
I suspect "HunterGren" is feeling like an asshole now.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 5:43:09 PM EDT
Hey fight4yourrights, would you mind removing your upper from your lower and weighing them seperately. I would like to know if it is close to the weight of the cav15 lower. If so, then I think I will just try for an upper from Bushy and a Lower from Cav Arms (better warranty).
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 6:45:12 PM EDT
I'll have to score a better scale to do that. I'll see what I can come up with.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:05:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wave: Held one in my hands yesterday at the gunshop. I kept thinking, neat idea but why would I want one?
View Quote
So you can sell it a few months later for a loss.. To me of course!
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:15:20 PM EDT
To add to the 'has it changed' part of this thread. Some of the earlier posts about bushmaster buying PO and it's 'assets' mentioned that of course they acquired PO's inventory of fully assembled rifles and would be selling them as is, and eventually putting bushmasters name on the new ones. Also, something about 'we will be looking to improve them as well'. So, yes, whatever bushmaster first unloaded was 'exactly' the same as what PO was selling, least till that inventory ran out.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 8:20:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HunterGren: 90% of you guys are self richeous know it all a$$hole I am done with this site.
View Quote
"Know it all"? Well, we obviously know more than you, and we admit to our mistakes instead of running home when the game doesn't go our way. Buh bye! [wave] (Oh, and we can spell "righteous")
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 9:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2003 9:15:45 PM EDT by Gunbert]
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: The last of the PO guns had the bugs worked out.
View Quote
Says you. I got one of the latest 'fixed' model 97's. Biggest POS I ever owned. Broke 2 bolts, the front handguard bent to shit when it fell over, the QD compensator fell off several times and the gas system never worked right. I don't think I ever made it through a full 30 round mag without a problem or failure. Edited to change some text now that I read some later posts. Sounds like BM is going to fix the obvious problems. I'm actually interested to see what a company who actually knows AR's can do with carbon fiber.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 11:40:52 AM EDT
Hey fight, I was just wondering if you have weighed the upper and lower yet? Thanks
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 11:34:40 AM EDT
fight, Which parts in the Carbon 15 aren't standard AR parts?
Link Posted: 8/26/2003 11:58:47 AM EDT
No, if you really want to save weight you can't just subsitute materials, you need to reengineer to take advantage of those materials. The parts follow the design of the AR, but many are dedicated parts on my gun. I believe I could modify a standard bolt to fit, but it won't fit as-is. The PO bolt has a bigger extractor. The trigger group appears standard. The upper/lower fit is close, but not close enough. The buffer is a reduced weight, redesigned item. The bolt carrier has been lightened.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:13:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By G-CODE: I just got off the phone with Leon at Bushmaster. He said the improvements to the Carbon 15 rifles are: 1. Useage of a "Milspec" bolt. I'm sure he means standard AR-15 bolt like Bushmaster uses in their other guns. 2. Modification of feedramps. 3. 5.56 chamber 4. Barrel extension modification 5. Take down pin location change. The Carbon 15 uppers will now fit and evidently function on a standard AR-15 lower. FWIW.
View Quote
Here is my email from Bushmaster on this topic. [b] Yes, several design changes have been made as well as use of better materials. The Carbon 15 receivers will now interchange with AR15 receivers. AR15 bolts and barrel extensions are being used. Gas ports sizes have decreased as the systems were running too hard. Barrels now have 5.56mm chambers. Thank you. [/b]
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 8:59:31 PM EDT
Does this mean you could change the buffer tube out to put a collapsable stock in after the sunset? For that matter you just switch out to any standard AR-15 stock?
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 2:21:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist: Does this mean you could change the buffer tube out to put a collapsable stock in after the sunset? For that matter you just switch out to any standard AR-15 stock?
View Quote
Not easily. The Carbon 15 doesn't have a buffer retainer.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 3:00:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By G-CODE: 1. Useage of a "Milspec" bolt. I'm sure he means standard AR-15 bolt like Bushmaster uses in their other guns.
View Quote
Those are two different things. They using a different definition of "milspec" now? [;D]
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 4:38:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist: Does this mean you could change the buffer tube out to put a collapsable stock in after the sunset? For that matter you just switch out to any standard AR-15 stock?
View Quote
From what I see on my wife's, yes, it could be done. The only thing necessary, would be to drill a small hole in the recevier for a buffer retaining pin/spring to go in.
Top Top