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Posted: 8/12/2003 5:14:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2003 1:52:08 PM EDT by Hawkeye]
Well, after many months of saving $$, wheeling & dealing, and tough decisions, I have almost completed my new Urban Combat Rifle, or UCR for short, as I call it. I will be putting on the finishing touches Thursday of this week, and pics will follow. First, a little on what I had in mind with this rifle.
I wanted to put together a rifle, that I thought would be the best setup, for my wants and uses, and in my area, should things go bad. I wanted a rifle that was accurate, was relatively easy to transport/get in and out of a vehicle with, and manuever with. I wanted it to be as user friendly as possible, simple, yet effeective. I wanted it to be at its best from 0-250 meters, with 300m being a max. This is mainly based on the fact that in my area, those are the absolute furthest distances one could possibly engage targets, primarily due to either dense woods/swamp, or houses & buildings.
It needed to be capable of being used in a prolonged fight, and still be usable by the user. I wanted it to be as safe as possible for the user, while engaged in the type of movements and actions that one would have to perform, in an urban type firefight. More on this when I post the pics and rifle description.
I based much of my thought from personal experiences on various ranges/scenarios from when I was in the Army/NatlGuard. In the Guard we did LOTS of MOUT type training. I also did lots of reading up on as many REAL urban engagements as possible, from WWII to The Battle of the Black Sea (Mogadishu). This rifle is NOT designed to be a CQB gun, though it could be used in that role in a pinch, nor is it designed to be an open battlefield rifleas the fullsize AR15/M16 is. It is, in my mind, to fill an area in the middle ground. Just as a fullsize could be pressed into use in CQB if needed, and a 14.5 inch carbine could take to the open battlefield if needed (both have been done effectively recently), so could this rifle fill either role should one have to.
I also designed it to be very tailorable to the individual user. One could add or delete certain features based on personal preference, and still be able to keep the general idea behind the gun. I will say ahead of time, I already know that this wont be a rifle for everyone, and there are many who wont like it. I wanted to post it and talk about it though, because I felt there might be those out there who ARE interested.
Anyway, until I get the final pieces on, and pics up, I just wanted to post a little teaser. I am VERY excited about this gun.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 6:02:00 AM EDT
Gah!!! What is this teaser crap?! [banghead] J/K, sounds very interested, can't wait to see/hear more.[:D]
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 6:08:56 AM EDT
[;)]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 1:51:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 12:21:54 PM EDT by Hawkeye]
Well, I was going to wait until tomorrow, but I just cant do it. I am too excited about this gun. Here are the first couple of pics. All that is missing from here, is the Aimpoint and Arms #22M68, and those will be here and put on tomorrow. Will post pics with the Aimpoint on tomorrow. I also have an CQB Solutions SOP sling on the way. Here is a run down of what you see. Bushmaster Flat top Dissipator VLTOR A2 length rifle modstock Arms #59 Rifle length SIR Arms #40 rear sight Arms #22M68 Kurts A3 Tacbrake Dieter CQD forward sling loop Aimpoint Comp ML2 Hogue grip Future upgrades include, but are not limited to, an LMT bolt/carrier group, PRI gas buster/big latch, and possibly a PRI fat boy. The brake will probably get switched out for a Vortex, come Sept of 04. Again, I wanted to keep this simple yet functional, and utilize some of the newer products on the market. See my very first post above for my design thoughts on this rifle. This rifle gives me a solid platform to work with. Its length will allow for decent movement/transportation. It will have good cooling abilities for sustained firing, and with the barrel free floated, will get its full accuracy potential. I will post and accuracy report as soon as possible, hopefully sometime in the next 2 weeks. Love it or hate it, here is is. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p8ba869a850095753f0db803986c8036c/fb65301d.jpg[/img] Copy and paste this entire link for a large closeup pic. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p8ba869a850095753f0db803986c8036c/fb65301d.jpg.orig.jpg Here is a side by side view with my 14.5 inch CQB carbine with Kurts A3 brake. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pa8c4b1306e1beb98aac83a528660efbb/fb65301b.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pa8c4b1306e1beb98aac83a528660efbb/fb65301b.jpg.orig.jpg
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 1:54:28 PM EDT
Looks good, but I would have thought it to be much shorter.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 2:14:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: Looks good, but I would have thought it to be much shorter.
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Thanks. As for the length, I wanted it longer than a CQB type gun, yet shorter than a fullsize.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 2:20:09 PM EDT
Sweet carbine Hawkeye! I always wondered what a Dissy with a full length SIR would look like and it's nice, very nice...[:D]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 2:30:22 PM EDT
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p8f43ebca4234dcc6505e8ef82f38c79b/fb65171c.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p8f43ebca4234dcc6505e8ef82f38c79b/fb65171c.jpg.orig.jpg [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p52eb352ca01d0f71379995f2c40a9ac0/fb651715.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p52eb352ca01d0f71379995f2c40a9ac0/fb651715.jpg.orig.jpg [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pc432c219d8fb7998a2c25fd0a6abc7a3/fb651707.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pc432c219d8fb7998a2c25fd0a6abc7a3/fb651707.jpg.orig.jpg [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pd11b22bea6b7168c0c6b43a53505227c/fb6516f9.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/pd11b22bea6b7168c0c6b43a53505227c/fb6516f9.jpg.orig.jpg
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 2:36:39 PM EDT
Very, Very Nice! [:D]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 3:28:44 PM EDT
Looks Great. I like the full length SIR with the 16" barrel. Cool!![headbang]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 3:48:06 PM EDT
I have to put a plug in here too. MUCHO thanks to [b]MSTN, ADCO, and Kurts Kustoms[/b]. Absolutley the finest people in the business to deal with.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:03:42 PM EDT
Very Nice! Built the way "YOU" like, that's cool. (that gun begs for an ACOG!)
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:04:55 PM EDT
Very nice Hawkeye! That is a very unique looking AR. Now I want a Dissipater [:D]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:20:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RussB: Very Nice! Built the way "YOU" like, that's cool. (that gun begs for an ACOG!)
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I thought about that. But, there were a coupe of things I too into consideration. Acogs are expensive. No way around that. For the designed area of operation and purpose of this rifle, an Acog really wouldnt have much advantage at all over an Aimpoint, especially not for the $$. Of all the people I talked of about this project, all of those who are either in the know, or have "been there, done that", said to go with the Aimpoint. This is in NO WAY downing Acog's at all. It's just that for how this rifle is to be used, and with the money involved, the Aimpoint was the best choice.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:33:13 PM EDT
Very nice looking rifle. Let us know if it works out the way you wanted.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:49:33 PM EDT
Hawkeye: You put together the EXACT same setup I've been contemplating on putting together. The only difference is that I'm thinking about using a cut down 20" Bushy gov. profile barrel instead of the Dissipator barrel in order to get a 1x7 twist. I was also thinking about getting an ACOG TA31, but I'm still undecided on that end. It's cool to see what my future set up will look like! Thanks. UK4
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:52:19 PM EDT
Very nice. I've been thinking about building something very similar to that. What profile Dissipator barrel are you using??
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 4:58:03 PM EDT
Great looking rifle Hawkeye !!! I'm getting frustrated here, everybody has cooler toys than me. ...........Paul
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 5:50:15 PM EDT
mine is at KKF right now. like urbankaos mentioned, mine is getting the chop to 16.5" - the kurtzgewehr treatment with an a2 tacbrake. barrel is a 1/7 colt from a blue label, already turned down to gov't profile. should be pretty sweet. also going to have standard handguards for the moment. not quite ready to flip for the SIR, but it will get one eventually when i have toys to bolt to it. by the way, nice rifle hawkeye. a real cutie.
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:14:15 PM EDT
Hawkeye- I never thought I would like the #59 ARMS SIR, but that is an [i]awesome[/i] combination. What helps the most is the short rifle barrel and the Vltor Stock. You got to let us know how it shoots. ls
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 8:49:02 PM EDT
Man, That is great. We see the same set ups over and over again. Nothing wrong with them, they are great rigs, thats why so many look so similar. This is something pretty unique so far and with a lot of advantages. I really, REALLY like it. Awesome! [hail]
Link Posted: 8/13/2003 10:23:41 PM EDT
Neat!! I really like the forward mounted front sight (old eyes!). How much does this thing weight and about where is the point of balance?
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 2:31:29 AM EDT
I like it, I like it a lot… If you wouldn’t mind answering the weight and balance question from [b]199[/b] I’d be most grateful. Best regards, J
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 4:40:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2003 4:52:33 AM EDT by Hawkeye]
Thanks for all the kinds words. It s standard heavey barrel Dissi. I'm not real big on the "lightweight" AR barrels. Nothing wrong with them, I just dont find the H-bars to be heavy. I'll see what I can do about getting a weight on it. My Aimpoint should be here any minute. I plan to TRY and get to the range next weekend and put some rounds through it. The point of balance FEELS like it is IMMEDIATLY forward of the mag well. I'll check more precisely when I can. It shoulders VERY well. I know many are wondering "why a dissipator". Well, without getting too drawn out, I get all the benefits of a large carbine, but the sight radius of a fullsize. To me, thats important. If my Aimpoint goes out, I have iron sights that will give me the most accuracy possible, via the full length radius. Also, in a real firefight, especially in an urban area, one will be doing a lot of moving. IE.- crawling, crouching, etc. With the short amount of barrel exposed, it greatly minimizes the chances of bumping that barrel with your face, hand, arm, meg, whatever. It wont take much for it to be hot enough to burn you, even through your clothes. I have had it happen. The Dissi keeps as much of the barrel covered as possible. That does however, mean more heat buildup on the barrel itself. Thats another reason for the SIR. In addition to free floating the barrel, the mounting capabilites, and just plain good looks, it gives about the best ventilation available. Keep in mind, there are a dozen different ways one could do this rifle, and keep the main ideas intact. Full length RAS, Full length Predator, Acog, EOTech, standard stock, Magpul stock, etc.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 9:33:10 AM EDT
Did you keep the Rifle buffer and tube with the VLTOR? If so why are you considering the LMT BC/B group AND the Fat Boy? Youd have a rifle very prone to short stroking with the lower pressure gas coming in, an extra hole to vent the gas faster in the carrier and a heavy carrier and buffer to move with the reduced pressure gas that is getting bled off faster. I could be 100% wrong but it just sounds like a bad idea to me. That thing looks cool but it also looks like it weighs 10 pounds easy.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 10:05:08 AM EDT
Looks great! Curious about the weight though.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 11:08:25 AM EDT
That's about what I want to do to my AR10 A4. Just waiting for a rifle length SIR for the AR10.... It stands as about a 1MOA rifle as it is right now until the non-freefloated barrel heats up and starts to open up a bit. I bet the SIR will cure some of my consistency problems while also giving me the longest piece of real estate you ever saw for mounting optics.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 11:26:54 AM EDT
It turned out great Hawkeye. Not too shabby for a robo-gun [;)] We need pics when the Aimpoint get on it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 11:59:01 AM EDT
weigh it yet?
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 10:09:37 AM EDT
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p0d2abf87326ef3e42f115064671e68f0/fb62d227.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p0d2abf87326ef3e42f115064671e68f0/fb62d227.jpg.orig.jpg [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p905da7cd6b768d2f087c2038c11eaeda/fb62d130.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p905da7cd6b768d2f087c2038c11eaeda/fb62d130.jpg.orig.jpg [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p263792d55ee003f2aeb34d8dc16728d4/fb62d0e4.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p263792d55ee003f2aeb34d8dc16728d4/fb62d0e4.jpg.orig.jpg [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p7d63d044d4e22b18ad668eab65dc1bc7/fb62cd77.jpg[/img] http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid74/p7d63d044d4e22b18ad668eab65dc1bc7/fb62cd77.jpg.orig.jpg I went to the range today. Put a little over 100 rounds through it. Typical Bushmaster, 100% flawless function. I did have a bit of trouble sighting in the irons. No thanks in part to Colt's brilliant idea of making the M4 front sight post a non standard height, causing Arms to make the #40 rear to not line up the best in the world with STANDARD front sight posts. Finally got it dialed in, right when I had to leave. Groups started out a tad large, but really tighened up once I got over my initial sight in frustrations, and once a few rounds got through it. Groups were averaging about 4 inches at 100 yards with Rem 55gr FMJ's to start. Win Q3131A was running about 3moa. The more I shot, the better the groups got. Were really starting to tighten up when I had to leave. Part of the grouping trouble was me though. I was really off for some reason today. I had my other carbine with me for comparison, since it is VERY accurate and I know how it shoots. I was not grouping well with it either, so it was more me today than the gun. Going to try to go back next Fri and run some more through it, and double check the zero. MIght end up ordering a replacement front sight post from Bushmaster This one is cranked up pretty high. I'd feel better with the taller replacement one in there. Anyway, thats the scoop for now. Oh, I havent had a chance to weigh it yet. On the list of things to do. Also, the PRI fat boy and the LMT bolt/carrier will work fine with it. I want the bolt more for strength and reliability than anything, but that is not a priority right now. Again, function wise, it has been 100% so far.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 10:28:02 AM EDT
I'm betting close to 10 lbs dissipator 7.68 lbs full length SIR has got to be pushing 2lbs and I'm thinking the sight & mount (& eventual tac sling?) will push it damn close to 10.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 4:28:39 PM EDT
Again, I'm not sure. I know it is heavier than my CQB carbine, which I expected and hoped for. Soon as I can get it to a decent scale I'll get a good weight on it.
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 5:06:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Again, I'm not sure. I know it is heavier than my CQB carbine, which I expected and hoped for. Soon as I can get it to a decent scale I'll get a good weight on it.
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Just trying to have fun in the meantime [:)] Maybe we could have an over/under bet at 10 lbs? C'mon Hawkeye, inquiring minds want to know!!!
Link Posted: 8/16/2003 5:34:50 PM EDT
The Aimpoint completes the package. Great Rig. If I built one it would be similar, but with the following changes: 1. ACOG NSN M4 2. POF handguard or Daniel Defense 3. Vltor A1 Clubfoot stock. Either way, I wouldn't turndown Hawkeye's new creation.[:)] ls
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 1:44:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By norman74:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye: Again, I'm not sure. I know it is heavier than my CQB carbine, which I expected and hoped for. Soon as I can get it to a decent scale I'll get a good weight on it.
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Just trying to have fun in the meantime [:)] Maybe we could have an over/under bet at 10 lbs? C'mon Hawkeye, inquiring minds want to know!!!
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I'm pretty sure its over 10 lbs.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 1:51:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LordStoner: The Aimpoint completes the package. Great Rig. If I built one it would be similar, but with the following changes: 1. ACOG NSN M4 2. POF handguard or Daniel Defense 3. Vltor A1 Clubfoot stock. Either way, I wouldn't turndown Hawkeye's new creation.[:)] ls
View Quote
I thought about the Acog, but decided against it for now due to 2 reasons. 1st, $$. Just cant afford one right now. 2nd, for what I envision for this rifle, 150-200 yards is its max engagement range. From there on in, I dont think the Acog really has THAT much on an Aimpoint. I thought about the clubfoot as well. There again, I just dont think it would have really been of much benefit, though it [i]might[/i] have looked a tad cooler. I HAD to have the A2 length though. A1 just doesnt cut it for me. Thanks again to everyone for the comments though. I cant stress enough how much I LOVE this rifle. I have hardly put it down since I finished it. Wife keeps giving me funny looks though. [%|] Soon as I recover from this, and take care of 1 little handgun purchase, I am starting on its big brother/partner.......An SPR with a few little twists......[devil]
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 1:56:20 PM EDT
I wanted to put another plug in for the folks who really came through for me on this and who I got EVERYTHING on the rifle from. [size=2][b]MSTN ADCO KURTS KUSTOMS[/b][/size=2] These folks are absolutley AWESOME to deal with and the only ones for me.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 2:26:36 PM EDT
I have a question for all you technical types out there- what are the different distances from the gas tube hole to the chamber? or, what are the lengths of the gas tube for the different upper lengths? it seemed a little relevant to the gun hawkeye just had built.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 2:34:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly: I have a question for all you technical types out there- what are the different distances from the gas tube hole to the chamber? or, what are the lengths of the gas tube for the different upper lengths? it seemed a little relevant to the gun hawkeye just had built.
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The Dissipator from Bushmaster has a "bastard" cut down sight under the handguards for the gas tube.[img]http://bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16da.jpg[/img] Other comanies & smiths change the size of the gas port hole in the barrel to get around the bastard sight, but I think that the Bushy method works the best. I have one, and I hate the weight of the damn thing, but I have always been able to shoot the hell out of the damn thing. Never had any sort of failure to fire either.
Link Posted: 8/17/2003 2:40:48 PM EDT
norman- do you have ameasurement on the distance? I kind of knew it was different, but wanted the actual measurements for my personal comparison.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:42:13 AM EDT
I'll try to get some measurements for you, unless Norman beat me to it.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 5:41:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: It turned out great Hawkeye. Not too shabby for a robo-gun [;)] We need pics when the Aimpoint get on it.
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Yeah, its my robo gun...what of it! [;D]
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 7:05:19 AM EDT
Hawkeye, Your project turned out very well. One of the greatest things about ARs & 1911s is that you really can have it your way. You knew what you wanted, and built it. Congratulations! I am glad we were able to help. Be well!
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 7:24:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dubb-1: Hawkeye, Your project turned out very well. One of the greatest things about ARs & 1911s is that you really can have it your way. You knew what you wanted, and built it. Congratulations! I am glad we were able to help. Be well!
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Thanks. You guys really came through for me.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 7:51:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly: norman- do you have ameasurement on the distance? I kind of knew it was different, but wanted the actual measurements for my personal comparison.
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Distance on what? I'm not clear on what you're asking for. The bastard sight is in the same spot as the standard sight on a CAR, M4, Shorty, whatever. FWIW, here's a couple of other variants from [url]www.bushmaster.com[/url] M4 Profile preban Dissipator Barrel (also available as post ban) I'm not really sure what the point of this one is, but I guess it's cheap for BM to simply tack another sight on out front and install one of their bastard sights in the back, and sell a lighter version of the Dissipator. Personally, I always thought a fluted or pencil barrel Dissipator would be nice. [img]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16dm4a.jpg[/img] Standard 16" heavy barrel [img]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16a.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 8:10:18 AM EDT
Although I'm personally not as excited about the new rail systems that are out as most people, I have to say after seeing this weapon firsthand, it's a beautiful weapon. Plus the operator behind it is a damn good shot, that I've also had first hand experience with. [%|] [sniper2] Dirk
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 8:12:55 AM EDT
so does the dissipator have the same length handguards as a standard 20inch? I get confused between the long handguards, "midlength" and carbine.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 8:21:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly: so does the dissipator have the same length handguards as a standard 20inch? I get confused between the long handguards, "midlength" and carbine.
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Yes, the Dissipator uses full length handguards. Bushmaster doesnt use midlength handguards on any of their rifles.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 4:11:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2003 6:09:53 AM EDT by Hawkeye]
Just thought I'd update a few pics. Got my CQB Solutions SOP sling in today (THANKS WES!!!) and got it mounted. I was going to use an H&K clip on the front to attach to the Deiter CQD loop, but, since I dont have any yet, I decided to try to put it on anyway. Glad I did. The front strap goes through the CQD loop PERFECTLY, and is TOTALLY SILENT to boot. Big plus there in my book. The VLTOR stock let me mount it just as you would on a collapsable stock, which is what I wanted. I just started liking this gun even more.......... [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/p4a18276349c04985825fffa0464973a1/fb570005.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/p0386eed4dd64e4e64275348b45f38b4c/fb570a0a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/p38db7af7f67e16311f8258436b93f356/fb570a04.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 4:29:25 PM EDT
Almost forgot.... ARMS Rules! [headbang]
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 5:07:50 PM EDT
Hawkeye, VERY sweet rig. Mine's nearly the same, except for being built on a preban lower. Hopefully it will end up as nice as yours. How does it balance with the Aimpoint? Do you plan on adding a light to it? -Cap'n
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