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Posted: 8/10/2003 11:21:06 PM EDT
I recently bought a preban ar lower so I could get what I wanted in a 9mm AR.
I will admit I dont know much about laws, and in such ignorance questioned a company offering the Olyimpic pre-ban 9mm upper.
I asked them if they had them in stock and what I had to do to recieve their product.
They told me that they had what I wanted but I needed to send them a "FORM 4"
WHAT IS THIS?? I thought uppers where parts, not guns.
any help would be appreciated so I dont have to worry about displaying my inexperience to the company I may soon do business with.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:26:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:29:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/10/2003 11:30:09 PM EDT by ningonango]
ok. what is a form 4? and what do i have to do to get it?
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:30:52 PM EDT
if you're not looking to get into NFA stuff, then check out this forum: http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=15 Most of your questions will be answered there. Steve.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:33:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:34:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ningonango: ok. what is a form 4? and what do i have to do to get it?
View Quote
This is for machine guns or short barreled rifles (I think). If that's not what you want, then check out the above link. Steve.
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:36:44 PM EDT
I gotta learn to type faster [:D]
Link Posted: 8/10/2003 11:44:37 PM EDT
OK. Am I to understand that you can send in this form 4 (and the 200 tax) and you can legelly buy and own a full auto weapon under 16"?
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 12:27:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 5:03:08 AM EDT
You can buy a transferable full auto manufactured before 86 on a form 4. The form 4 is used to transfer an existing NFA device. Be ready to cough up some $$$. A form 1 is what is used to make a new NFA firearm. As mentioned, you can't make a new machine gun for civilian use. You can, however, still make an SBR (provided there are no state and/or local laws prohibiting it). If you want to put a barrel under 16" on your currently title 1 semi AR, you want to submit a form 1. Forms can be found at: [url]http://www.titleii.com[/url] Rocko
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 5:33:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 9:56:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 10:02:29 AM EDT by ningonango]
thanx for your imput.. but i guess i dont wanna pay the 200 just for a sbr. Unless of course i can use it on all my rifles with just one form. So heres big questions. CAn i use this form 4 on multible rifles? Would it enable me make a post ban rifle (cause i have several other ar-15s besides my pre-ban) an sbr? Another - my brother is police. can he own a sbr w/o the form 4? and can he put a pre on a post? (also do you think someone would require special information when just buying a pre ban upper?. i really hate paperwork.. esp. when it involves those damn "taxes")
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 10:09:56 AM EDT
Are you wanting to order a preban upper or a NFA upper? It sounds like you are trying to order a SBR upper (barrel less than 16"). You can legally purchase a preban upper (bayo lug and/or flash suppressor) with 16" barrel without a problem. BTW, the Oly system is a lot of fun for the money. You will like it. Happy shooting.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 1:15:58 PM EDT
I don't want to hi-jack this thread but I have a question along the same lines that I keep getting different answers to. I want to own an SBR. Do I have to register the upper or the lower ? I initally thought that I had to register the lower since that is the serial numbered item. Then someone else told me that I have to register the upper because if I had more than one short upper, I could be charged with possession of an unregistered SBR since the upper could be attached to any AR I owned. By registering the upper, this would eliminate that problem. Then I was recently in a local dealers shop and he told me that I needed to register the lower and it didn't matter how many uppers I had for that registered lower, all I had to say is that I used them only on my registered lower and as long as they wern't found on any other lower, I was OK. Now this thread seems to imply that I need to register the upper since OLY wants this guy to send them a Form 4 for an upper. So I have been back and forth, back and forth. ??????????????????????????? If you owned a registered machine gun, and ordered this same upper from Oly, I know you don't need to do a form 4 since barrel length isn't an issue with the registered machine gun. So why the hell would Oly want a form 4 for an upper ?
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 2:45:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ningonango: thanx for your imput.. but i guess i dont wanna pay the 200 just for a sbr. Unless of course i can use it on all my rifles with just one form. So heres big questions. CAn i use this form 4 on multible rifles? Would it enable me make a post ban rifle (cause i have several other ar-15s besides my pre-ban) an sbr?
View Quote
No, I believe each rifle purchased or each receiver that is to become a SBR needs a separate Form 4 filled out, signed, and then approved. An SBR can be made out of a post ban rifle, but it has to conform to the rules of the AW ban. A postban SBR still cannot have a collapsible stock, flash supprssor, or bayonet lug if it has a detachable magazine and a pistol grip. A registered drop in auto sear or a registered lightning link can be mated to a postban receiver, since those two items are (registered pre 86) machine guns by themselves. I believe when that is done, the serial number of the registered sear or link plus the serial number of the intended receiver has to be included on the Form 4. Once this is approved, the receiver becomes a machine gun and is not bound by the rules of the AWB and the banned features can be added. The AWB pertains to semiautomatic weapons only.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 2:48:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2003 2:49:19 PM EDT by knightone]
Originally Posted By 444: I don't want to hi-jack this thread but I have a question along the same lines that I keep getting different answers to. I want to own an SBR. Do I have to register the upper or the lower ? I initally thought that I had to register the lower since that is the serial numbered item. Then someone else told me that I have to register the upper because if I had more than one short upper, I could be charged with possession of an unregistered SBR since the upper could be attached to any AR I owned. By registering the upper, this would eliminate that problem. Then I was recently in a local dealers shop and he told me that I needed to register the lower and it didn't matter how many uppers I had for that registered lower, all I had to say is that I used them only on my registered lower and as long as they wern't found on any other lower, I was OK. Now this thread seems to imply that I need to register the upper since OLY wants this guy to send them a Form 4 for an upper. So I have been back and forth, back and forth. ??????????????????????????? If you owned a registered machine gun, and ordered this same upper from Oly, I know you don't need to do a form 4 since barrel length isn't an issue with the registered machine gun. So why the hell would Oly want a form 4 for an upper ?
View Quote
No, you don't have to register an upper. Once a lower is registered, you can have as many short uppers as you want, as long as none of them are mated to any of your unregistered lowers. Oly only wants to see a copy of the Form 4 just to make sure you have a registered MG or SBR. I believe this is done simply for liability reasons. Oly doesn't want to be responsible for robberies or murders commited ewith an unregistered SBR with one of their uppers on it. It would be bad press even if legal actions wasn't taken against them.
Link Posted: 8/11/2003 9:09:06 PM EDT
But then why to they want a form 4 ? Why not verification of your tax stamp which I believe is on a form 1 ?
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 5:52:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 444: But then why to they want a form 4 ? Why not verification of your tax stamp which I believe is on a form 1 ?
View Quote
If you purchased the weapon from another person, it will be on a form 4. If you built it yourself it will be on a form 1. There is no legal requirement that Oly verify this before selling you the upper, it is for CYA purposes.
Link Posted: 8/12/2003 7:42:32 AM EDT
I purchased a colt M4 lower 14.5 from someone on the EE. Of course I did not have a form 1 or 4. I however did have it sent to Kurt to have a perm attached smith vortex permanently attached as I did not want an illegal upper. I am just mentioning this as it was MY responsibility to comply with what I put on my lower. I am surprised that Oly is going overboard and requiring this form. Just my .02.
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