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Posted: 7/30/2003 12:14:06 PM EDT
anybody??
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 12:18:54 PM EDT
Whats that????
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 1:16:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2003 2:55:58 PM EDT by FrankSquid]
Originally Posted By Einrich: HELP, SEND MORE COPS! [url]http://www.ackbar.org/images/zombie.jpg[/url]
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Lets keep this on topic! [red]Conduct Code 6.) No “trolling”. This means posting controversial or “valueless” topics simply to gain attention or anger other members. There is a big difference in a “trolling” topic and a thread started just to have fun![/red]
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 1:55:15 PM EDT
huh????
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 2:12:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2003 2:58:05 PM EDT by FrankSquid]
Originally Posted By Einrich: [red][size=1]HELP PLEASE! SEND MORE PARAMEDICS![/size=1][/red] [url]http://www.capnwacky.com/haunted/nightmarecrusade/pics/zombies.jpg[/url]
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Link Posted: 7/30/2003 2:19:23 PM EDT
About the rifle, einrich get a life
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 2:51:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: anybody??
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Mike give us a hint on what a "scar" is. Tell us what YOU know.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 4:54:04 PM EDT
It's been a topic before on this board,I think? And on other boards but it quickly disappears. I think it might have to do with the sopmod 2 release. I was hoping someone could clear this up.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 5:26:44 PM EDT
There is a Spec ops program for development in small arms called scar, but real details of the wish list are not for general public disemination.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 6:18:16 PM EDT
[url]http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:2bkUyoRA1M0J:www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/spell.ppt+SOF+SCAR+6.8mm&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 6:29:55 PM EDT
SCAR=Special operations Combat Rifle. I think that's about all of us know about it. Supposed to be a carbine, and may do away with the 5.56. Sounds like it may have a midlength gas system. That info may or may not be true, as it's just stuff I've gleaned off of this board. -Cap'n
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 8:23:45 PM EDT
I think you can change calibers
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 9:10:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By inkaybee: [url]http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:2bkUyoRA1M0J:www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/spell.ppt+SOF+SCAR+6.8mm&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]
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Scrolling through the info furnished by the link is informative. Terse but informative.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 11:21:34 PM EDT
The SCAR documentation is just a gov't soliciation request. want the final rifle that will surface will not be exactly what the gov't asked for. for one thing multiple caliber platform which will switch from 308 to 5.56, it is almost impossible for any manufacture to produce. also the gov't's 32 page doc also request for a basic rifle pretty much in line with the M4. so you can basically imagine what the SCAR will look like. manufacture like HK, FN are all interested in this project, but it will be a long time before anyone will have a picture of the actual unit.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 3:38:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 4:07:36 AM EDT by inkaybee]
This is all conjecture but what if: Wes at MSTN is soon going to be selling a 16" upper in a new caliber. He has stated that a new upper will be nececsary -- your old one will not work. Why a new upper??? Two reasons come to mind 1) a new gas system 2) a quick change barrel/caliber system Both are in line with the SCAR requests Maybe this is what the URX2 is all about?? I could be full of shit too. Edit to add: I recall Wes saying his new upper would have a mid length gas system and that existing Bolt Cariers would work. So no piston system. But maybe a end user caliber change in the feild system??
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 5:34:50 AM EDT
Well since the ability to fire both 5.56 and 7.62 NATO is listed as a threshhold requirement, I'd say multi-caliber is a definite aspect of the SCAR program. I tend to agree with SMGLee though - a field switchable rifle that can fire both 5.56 and 7.62 NATO is going to take some work to meet the threshhold requirements for reliability and longevity. Just me; but it seems like if I have a choice between carrying a 10lb rifle in 7.62x51 and a 10lb rifle in 5.56mm, I'm going for the bigger caliber.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 7:23:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 7:24:45 AM EDT by 123whisper]
You guess say no 7.62 and 5.56 interchangable. But what if you move the magwell to the upper, then move the front lug to the lower rear of the magwell. Keep the lower the same,minus the magwell, then move the bunny ears to the lower front, like right in front of the trigger guard. Of course, that would make the lower receiver basically be a stock and trigger group, instead of the stock, trigger group, magwell. That means that the part that would interchange between 7.62 & 5.56 would be what? 2.5lbs? Basically, I can see how they could get around the problem, but that PROBLEM is to a SOLUTION which was asked for by the govt to a PROBLEM that never existed in the first place. Why do you need interchangeable calibers in a rifle anyways? I cannot imagine a circumstance in the field where it would be needed to have 7.62 and 5.56 out of one person. Just have one guy with the 7.62 and one with the 5.56
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 7:59:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 8:03:20 AM EDT by SMGLee]
123, you make a good point, but if you do that, you basically created the HK G3/G33 and the MP5 series or even the current G36 which had 7.62 in mind when they designed the gun. of course the SCAR documentation also require the SCAR to have feature as you would find on the M4 so some of the possibilities are just simply limited by JORD's own writing. Inkaybee, Wes' new upper has nothing to do with the SCAR configuration. it is a new caliber but it is not interchangeable as far as 7.62 to 5.56. it will require its own magazine, bolt, barrel and extension. it is a radicial departure to the current setup and you will be amazed at the new upper once he release it. although the new upper will meet one or some of the SCAR requirement the SCAR are still years away from a working prototype from any of the major manufacture. you are better off looking forward to the new SOPMOD2 or the M4PIP, that is just around the corner.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 9:04:27 AM EDT
where is the KAC URX?
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 10:03:33 AM EDT
The upper is already out there, LW have it on their HITRON weapon and their DMR, it has a one-piece integral rail system that's part of the upper itself. The barrel is removed by loosening two pinch bolts. The upper can handle any calibers currently marketed for the AR15 but not 7.62 x 51.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 10:36:46 AM EDT
smglee, I know you want a URX. Any news or updates
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 2:49:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/31/2003 5:32:06 PM EDT by inkaybee]
Originally Posted By SMGLee: Inkaybee, Wes' new upper has nothing to do with the SCAR configuration. it is a new caliber but it is not interchangeable as far as 7.62 to 5.56. it will require its own magazine, bolt, barrel and extension. it is a radicial departure to the current setup and you will be amazed at the new upper once he release it. although the new upper will meet one or some of the SCAR requirement the SCAR are still years away from a working prototype from any of the major manufacture. you are better off looking forward to the new SOPMOD2 or the M4PIP, that is just around the corner.
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Sorry, I guess Wes's cryptic clues got my imagination reeling. Why is it some of you guys know so much about this deal and the rest of us are treated like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed full of bull shit)? Hip fire thanks for the straight info. Top secret games get old.
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 3:11:49 PM EDT
There's talk about it on other boards and the rest is just guessing. Until you see it it's just talk. People in the industry are going to know more
Link Posted: 7/31/2003 5:22:03 PM EDT
Those requirements for a "do all"weapon will need a radicle advancement one I dont think will be around for at least another 20 years,the M16 series will be here for a while yet,Im not holding my breadth for the day the M4 is replaced,upgrades? I hope but replacement..a long ways away.
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 12:41:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 12:43:22 AM EDT by KevinB]
[url]http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/spell.ppt[/url] From an Outside Source [;)]
1. There are TWO SCAR's; one is the SCAR-L for 5.56mm NATO length cartridges (5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm, 6.8x43mm, 7.62x39mm) and a SCAR-H for 7.62mm NATO length cartridges (7.62x51mm and the new .338 short magnum). In other words, a Little Brother-Big Brother concept like the Mk46/Mk48 combination (See--http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003smallarms/troy.ppt) 2. As COL Spellisy shows, nearly 15,000 SCAR's are going to be procurred for SOCOM, with RDTE in 2004-2005 and operational use beginning in 2006--NOT 20 years from now. 3. Existing weapons, such as the Robinson Arms RAV02 MC (SPR-V) meet many of the SCAR requirements (http://www.robarm.com./rav02.htm)--it will not be hard for H&K, KAC, Robinson Arms, DSA/FN, etc... to come up with suitable rifles.
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And he can read too...[;D]
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 6:09:20 AM EDT
Kevin thanks for another morsel, but I'm still starved. Yor link does not work for me. P.S. enough with the winking smiley faces already
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 6:55:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: you are better off looking forward to the new SOPMOD2 or the M4PIP, that is just around the corner.
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Chen, Can you elaborate on the M4PIP at all? I'm familiar with some of the current upgrades to the M4 system in terms of buffer, extractor spring and barrel but I don't know anything about a "M4PIP" program. Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 9:27:38 AM EDT
Inky - you need powerpoint to view the slide show. I was being a dick with the smiley's...
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 9:35:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2003 10:15:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/1/2003 10:19:52 AM EDT by JustL00king]
I say the scar rifle could be built using an AR10. It's .308, you can make a .223 upper receiver for it and use existing .223 barrels for the m16. They can use a one piece drop in mag block/adaptor that allows the use of m16 mags. Throw a .223 bolt into the mix and you got a Scar.
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