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Posted: 7/16/2003 7:22:06 AM EDT
Okay have got the $ for the build but I cant really decide if I want to go flattop or A2. I would do A3 but M&A only has A2 or Flattop! So can you tell me some pros and cons about both!

Thanks
Justin
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:25:27 AM EDT
A3 is flat top It may or may not be in spec the top rail though.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:28:52 AM EDT
"Forged A2 upper or Flattop upper, Carbine handguards (M4 Style) w/heat shield, Non-Collapsable Carbine stock or A2 trapdoor stock, 1 in 9 twist chrome-moly heavy match grade barrel, Pressed on "Mock" Flash supppressor, forged front sight" the quotes are from the M&A website I thought a flat top upper does not have a carry handle but on2 can be put onto it am i correct? And does the flat top upper have the front sight post on it? Justin
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:34:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 7:35:39 AM EDT by rhatland]
Justin, Good questions. The A2 upper has the handle built in. The A3 is the flat top. A flat top you can buy a removable handle for about $50-$80. The A3 gives you many many more options for optics. You will no doubt put on an EO TEch or Aimpoint or ACOG etc. You will learn about these latter. You will need to get a BUIS or Back Up Iron Site. GG&G A2, MAD, ARMS #40, are all various types/styles. You will probably want to buy an BUIS before a removable handle. Experience tells me this. Also, go for double heat shields, about $40. Twist rate either 1x7 or 1x9. Depends on bullet weight you use. Your question regarding front post site. That is mounted on barrel, not receiver. Welcome and good luck justin. ralph in fresno
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:38:39 AM EDT
Can someone find me a link for a BUIS and are double heat shield handguards necessary? Justin
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:43:26 AM EDT
Justin, Best price on BUIS for ARMS #40 is on the equipment exchange page 2 under name of EagleFirearms. Double heat shields are not necessary but very desirable. ralph in fresno.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:50:42 AM EDT
What's your intended purpose for this weapon? The carry-handle on the A2 provides additional strength to the upper receiver and a readily-available means to comfortably carry the weapon. If you plan to mount all kinds of "bells and whistles" on your customized upper, then the flat-top is the way to go. Just remember that removable optics are easily lost or damaged when not attached, and require a steady supply of batteries for the fancy accessories (dots, lights, etc.) Just my .02... Call me a traditionalist if you must.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:57:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 7:58:16 AM EDT by Not_A_Llama]
I would suggest the flat top. For a reasonable cost, you can purchase a detachable carry handle for a flat topped rifle. I know J&T offers the carry handle as an option for $65 more on their kits. A small fee for the enhanced flexibility you acquire. If you're reasonably sound of mind, misplacement ought not be an issue. This is a very classic crutch for the luddites and simpletons.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 8:55:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By justinwb: Okay have got the $ for the build but I cant really decide if I want to go flattop or A2.
View Quote
First decide what sights you plan to use and that will probably answer the question. If you are wanting to mount optics - get the flat top. If you want irons only - get the A2 at least that way you can use the carry handle to carry it by. Thumb hole on removeable carry handle is too small to comfortably carry by unless you have very small hands.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:24:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 9:27:59 AM EDT by Zardoz]
Originally Posted By hammerin_hank: The carry-handle on the A2 provides additional strength to the upper receiver and a readily-available means to comfortably carry the weapon. Call me a traditionalist if you must.
View Quote
Ah, but if you want to get REALLY traditional, ya gotta go A1! I got out just as we were beginning to receive the A2s, and that rear sight just didn't look sturdy enough. I don't hear of a whole lot of trouble with 'em in the field, so my opinion could be baseless, but if I'm going to have a carry handle, I'd MUCH rather have an A1 upper.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:41:43 AM EDT
go with the a3. you can add a handle later or better yet get an arms #40 (like i did) and be done with it. you dont need a handle really, thats what a sling is for. and if and when your ready for optics you can get a m2 with a #68 cantilever mount. (like i WILL do) or whatever other optics you want.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 10:01:49 AM EDT
I say: If you are thinking on going with a 20" barrel go A2 (1x8 twist), if 16" then go flattop with an ARMS # 40 (1x9 twist) no fake flash suppressor or compensator, M4 handguards, ACE skeleton stock [url]http://www.cmmginc.com/cmmg_images/tbl_images/stocks_images/ACE_FL.jpg[/url] from [url]CMMGinc.com[/url] , and then add the Red dot sight later. BR
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 10:07:30 AM EDT
Where can you get an A1 upper? Didn't they stop making them?
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 10:10:41 AM EDT
Bushmaster, DPMS, Oly, and others still offer the A1/C7 uppers.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 10:45:09 AM EDT
It's easy to add a handle to a flattop: purchase and tighten two screws. But hard to remove one from an A2, which is what I'm looking to do for 3 uppers. hammerin_hank: Do you have a reference for the "lack of strength" in the flattop you mention?
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 1:48:27 PM EDT
Justinwb, based on what you've posted before, I think the flat top is the way to go...it allows you MUCH more freedom down the road for adding optics. You are very limited in what you can mount on the carry handle. Even though mounts can get very expensive, you don't have to spend that much to get started...my most accurate AR, the former Armalite hehehe, does (well, DID...don' know how it's gonna shoot now) consistent sub moa groups with a $90 scope and $10 rings. By the way, to confuse us all, flat tops are also called A4s by some folks, like Armalite for one.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 2:03:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 2:14:57 PM EDT by Fenian]
Originally Posted By justinwb: Can someone find me a link for a BUIS and are double heat shield handguards necessary? Justin
View Quote
The most popular BUIS here is the ARM # 40...it mounts to the back of the flat top, and stays closed 'til you need it...then a flick of the little lever on the right side, and it pops up. It's best used with a Holosight/Eotech. Here's a pic with it down, then up: [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/188491/flattop1.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/188491/flattop2.jpg[/img] It can get more complicated if you want to use an Aimpoint, for example...but why don't you just get the rifle built first...then you can think about what to put on top of it, which can be a whole NEW set of things to obsess over...ask me how I know [:D] MTSN, Sableco, ADCO, Eagle Firearms, and others can sell you any ARMS piece you need. Just go to the industry forum, and click the link of your choice. I've used MTSN, ADCO, and Eagle...they're all good folks to deal with.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 5:03:49 PM EDT
Get the flat top. I didn't, and now I wish I had. An ACOG has been dancing in my sleep and it is being saved for. I will soon purchase an A3 M4 from Bushmaster, and my wife will recieve my A2 M4. Think it through very thoroughly to avoid potential retrospective thinking later.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 5:33:05 PM EDT
Thanks for the replys, I think I will mount a cheap red dot scope until i get the funds to add a Reflex or some holo sight. Will I have to buy a seperate mount? Thanks A bunch Justin
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:56:55 PM EDT
Justin, save the money you'd spend on a "cheap red dot sight", and put it towards a quality optic. I can tell you from experience. You'd be better served by dishing the additional funds for a quality BUIS (as opposed to the detachable carry handle), and then exploring the options for optics. Watch the EE board for deals on used EOTechs or Aimpoints. As these company's produce new models, alot of guys want to upgrade, and end up pitching their "older and experienced" optics on the EE at pretty fair prices. It's a great place break into the better quality optics market without beating up your wallet. However, if you must...most all lower end red dots come pre-fabbed with a weaver mount base that will fit the flat top, or they come with rings for the same purpose. Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 6:11:31 AM EDT
I have to second Javelin. Don't buy something you don't like to tide you over. Save for a quality item you want. If I could sell all the junk I have piled up at the price I paid for it, I'd have cash for the stuff I want now. Also, I know plenty of people moving from a Carry handle to a Flattop. Not many going the other way. :)
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 7:18:15 AM EDT
All the Sights are so expensive! Can you guys help me find a budget one (around 80 bucks) I dont want iron sights that much! Thanks Justin
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 7:35:00 AM EDT
Well, for $80 why don't you just get the removable carry handle for your flattop? Competence with iron sights is critical. You can learn that while you save up the jack for a battery powered sight of your choice.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 8:23:43 AM EDT
I never understood why the AR15 came with a carry handle. Even after four years in the Army I can't say I ever used it. I saw a guy get yelled at once for carrying it with the handle. It's a rifle, not a briefcase. I guess there are people that know a lot more about AR's than I do that like em though. Just my .2 cents. Good luck on your build. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 10:57:29 AM EDT
I have heard people claim the handle adds strength to the reciever. I haven't seen definitive support for that yet.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 11:17:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By justinwb: All the Sights are so expensive! Can you guys help me find a budget one (around 80 bucks) I dont want iron sights that much! Thanks Justin
View Quote
Stick with your iron sites(ARMS #40 or Carry Handle) and practice hitting targets with those.Those are your reliable sites.You can't depend on something electronic 100% of the time.After you're pretty accustomed to the Irons, you van go out and make an optics purchase.By that time, you'll have some cash saved and will be more informed about what optic will suit your purpose.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 11:21:32 AM EDT
I agree with Redbone-- practice with the irons while you save for or research which optic to get.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 1:09:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/17/2003 1:22:12 PM EDT by Not_A_Llama]
SETTLE for irons for now, then move up to a quality optic. Barring any eyesight problems, optics are superior in every way. If you get an electronic sight, know that batteries are an essential part of your rifle's operation. Bring them as you would bring ammunition. You don't forget ammo, do you? Usage of irons in no way makes a person more proficient. I challenge any of the luddites here to present a quantifiable reason why using iron sights improves one's shooting abilities.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 1:14:21 PM EDT
Thanks guys, You are right Irons are good to start out with. I am waiting to make my purchases into mid august or so when a local gun show is! Justin
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