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Posted: 7/10/2003 1:09:32 PM EDT
OK, the subject line pretty much covers it. I've heard that the old school 3 prong hider is more effective than the later A1 and A2, any truth to that one? If so, where can you find these things?
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 1:28:02 PM EDT
It has been posted here that the M16/ 3prong FS is close to the Phantom or Vortex, in performance. The A1/A2 birdcage's are more flash diverter's( away from the shooter) than flash suppressors( disapation). -(shameless plug)I have one of all three types on the EE![;)]
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 1:48:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2003 1:49:44 PM EDT by Tashonka1]
The armed forces switched to the birdcage flash hider because the 3-prong flash hider would catch on foliage, and soon your flash hider would like a bouquet of leaves. This ol' coyote hunter had an SP-1 and can vouch that the 3-prong would soon resemble a dinner salad when I took it into the backwoods.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 3:31:59 PM EDT
and they snapped metal banding pretty good too.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 3:55:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2003 3:58:33 PM EDT by mach6]
Originally Posted By PaDanby: and they snapped metal banding pretty good too.
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------------ Actually, in speaking with some of the old ARL-types behind the fence at APG who've worked small arms since the 60's, the reason cited above -- and not collecting foliage was the reason why the three prong was dropped. Same story comes from a personal friend and former Director of PM Small Arms. Story goes that commanders in the field had a hard time justifying broken FH's as a result of popping C-ration and ammo crates. That's when the myth of collecting foliage came up. Sure, the three prong will collect easier in the brush, but it ws apparently popular mythology than fact. Funny thing is that there are still other "old salts" working at Picatinny who swear the other story is true and are thus reluctant to embrace the vastly superior Vortex -- despite their own field testing proving the superiority of that design over anything else available. Frankly, that's my choice. Use one on a loosely-based Rem 700-derived rifle -- most effective.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 4:57:43 PM EDT
Re where you can get one, try Southeast Military Parts[url]www.usgunparts.com [/url] Other places have them also, but L.D. McPherson, who owns Southeast Military is a good guy, and they ship quickly [:D] Me? I like the early type. Since I don't open ration cases with them, and the North Georgia mountains don't have Viet Nam type jungles, haven't ever had a problem w/the three prong.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:03:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2003 6:14:16 PM EDT by Big-Bore]
I see them for sale all the time on e-Bay. Also, DPMS has them for $8. http://www.dpmsinc.com/10Browse.asp
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:13:44 PM EDT
they were also broken many times due to opening beer bottle caps... lol... just some true history... nothing is GI proof...
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:42:25 PM EDT
www.dpmsinc.com BL-3P Parkerized $8.00 BL-C3P Chromed $12.00
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 4:26:30 PM EDT
It is a obsolete product. GG
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 5:32:48 PM EDT
Yes, this obsolete shooter like them, though.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 12:40:15 PM EDT
The three prong was good for snapping the wire banding on a case of C-rats. Remember to turn it clockwise so you don’t unscrew the flash suppressor! Of course MREs don’t have a band although Mylar pouches may require armor piercing rounds to get them started… I never thought leave collecting was a big problem, but running through the jungle and having it snag on a vine will leave you empty handed or flat on your back! Neither one is good in a fire fight. Flat on your back will leave boot prints on your face as the rest of your squad races by!
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:12:25 AM EDT
I don't see how the muzzle of the weapon is more likely to trap foliage than the rest of it. The AR is not a very streamlined weapon, and I've gotten hung more often when vines and thorns grab my pack, clothes, shoelaces, or sling than when my Vortex catches anything. It's actually quite common when hiking for flora to catch someone's hat and the person behind them to reach, retreive and return it with little converstation. :) In fact, I remember being told a similar story with the barrel clamp on an Remington 870 shotgun-- leaving the 5-6" slot between the barrel and magazine tube would catch foliage, and that never happened either. Maybe my forests aren't Southeast Asian jungles, but I've punched through some walls of green without much trouble from the weapon. Has anyone really had this problem with the 3-prong or Vortex?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:56:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By blikbok: IHas anyone really had this problem with the 3-prong or Vortex?
View Quote
------------ Just finished reading the APG Feb 2003 test report on the Vortex. BTW, absolutely lousy test methodology (old ORSA-type, here). Jeez, nothing changes! However, the Vortex system definitely shows promise and most observers could not detect system. The Army needs to test again with dim tracer and with observers down range. Again, terrible test conditions, IMHO. I was most intrigued by how the system dramatically tightened up shot dispersion on the M-249. Unfortunately, the testers had the oldG-5 version, not the new G-6 version. Having said that, there's a lot of service politics coming from certain Army combat developers running against this and any other item which will extend the service life of the M-16 family. My opinion: Probably the single-most important accessory for your AR.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 3:45:20 PM EDT
Blikbok: We are talking about the three prong flash suppressor. It is open on the end. The ‘war stories’ I cited about being laid flat or having the weapon jerked from you are first hand experience. We also used a single strand of commo wire to tie the quick release of the M60’s. Too many times a gunner would emerge from a bush with his barrel missing… Yes we had our trouble with other clothing articles too. Seeing an infantry company returning to base camp after a month in the bush was a laugh. About half of the company would be missing a sleeve or pant leg or various combinations of all of them. Hand guards and stocks would often be broken although weapon items were usually replace during normal re-supply runs which were about 3 days apart. Battalion and Brigade staff would usually meet us at the gate. It was supposed to show their support but I think it was really to laugh at us… We were a funny sight, I laughed myself when looking back down the columns.
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