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Posted: 6/12/2003 3:30:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 3:30:28 AM EDT by montecarlo97]
Can anyone tell me which is better? I going to be ordering a 16" CAR kit next week and just wondering if one was better than the other.

Model 1 has the kit for $50 less than J&T.

Thanks for the help
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 3:48:02 AM EDT
Their both lower tier weapons, ya pays your money ya takes your chances, for approx. $50 more ya could go up a tier and get a RRA upper, in-fact a wise EE shopper may get a higher quality upper for equal or less money. Mike
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 4:28:09 AM EDT
Well here we go again. I have had both. without getting into details, the J&T is the better buy. It may cost more but the quality difference is very noticeable. [beathorse]
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:29:05 AM EDT
For what it's worth, my M&A Parts kit had an RRA upper...go figure. M&A is about $15 more than Model 1 on most uppers/kits, and shipping cost to Arizona for a kit was $19.99.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 7:04:52 AM EDT
Go with the J&T kit. My model 1 upper is great, I have no complaints there. My lower parts kit was hosed and I had to pay for the replacement kit and shipping, or I had to send my parts back and wait for a replacement. I chose to pay for the new lower parts kit and eat the shipping but as it turns out I have had to eat the whole thing because going on two months and 4 calls I have yet to be able to talk to anyone who will give me my money back. I know they have received the parts but all I ever get is "An owner will call you back in about an hour" ...yea right. It's really a shame too cause like I said the rest of the kit was great. If my lower parts kit had worked I would be here telling you how great they were, instead, avoid them like the monkeypox.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 7:47:35 AM EDT
After doing a lot of reading in the BIY forum, I ended up going the J&T route for a 20" A2 kit. It arrived two days earlier than promised, however one small part was missing (actually no real big deal). I called it in, they said they'd take care of it immediately, and Jesse also contacted me to let me know that he saw my part ready to go out in the mail that day. He's since followed up with me to be sure I was happy. I've got no problems recommending them at all, their customer service and their products are pretty darned good--I'm happy with them.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 10:02:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: Their both lower tier weapons, ya pays your money ya takes your chances, for approx. $50 more ya could go up a tier and get a RRA upper, in-fact a wise EE shopper may get a higher quality upper for equal or less money. Mike
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Lower tier in what regard? At least with the J&T kits in the BIY forum, people seem to get the same level of reliability and accuracy as the bushies and colts, never mind RRA. Sure, you can get a bad part, but that doesn't seem to be the norm. YMMV
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 10:56:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Koke: Lower tier in what regard? At least with the J&T kits in the BIY forum, people seem to get the same level of reliability and accuracy as the bushies and colts, never mind RRA. Sure, you can get a bad part, but that doesn't seem to be the norm. YMMV
View Quote
For the majority of those posting here: [b]Top Tier ARs consist of:[/b] Armalite Bushmaster Colt [b]Second Tier ARs are:[/b] DPMS Olympic Rock River Arms Eagle Arms [b]Lower Tier ARs:[/b] ASA J&T Model 1 Sales Hesse To the site "Experts", the fact that all the makers in the top tier have at some time produced rifles that meet or exceed "military specifications" makes them the preferred choice, I tend to agree, YMMV. Mike
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 10:57:41 AM EDT
I have a J&T 20" Hbar A3. It regularly shoots .60" and under groups (at 100 yards), cycles reliably, and looks great. I built it on an Eagle lower. The only trouble I have ever had with it was with the magazines, but after removing the burrs on the lips and lubricating with CLP, they also work flawlessly. Jesse and everyone I talked with at J&T were great to work with, and I will not hesitate to buy my next AR from them. If this is a "lower tier" rifle, then I guess I'm just another happy idiot. The $300 I saved bought a lot of ammo.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 11:08:30 AM EDT
I have 2 16" J&T kits, one with fluted barrel and a A2Tac Brake. Their fit and finish is as good as my BM and better than my Colts, which I think has been trading on the past goodwill of its name long enough. BM lower or RRA lowers are wonderful.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 1:03:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
Originally Posted By Koke: Lower tier in what regard? At least with the J&T kits in the BIY forum, people seem to get the same level of reliability and accuracy as the bushies and colts, never mind RRA. Sure, you can get a bad part, but that doesn't seem to be the norm. YMMV
View Quote
For the majority of those posting here: [b]Top Tier ARs consist of:[/b] Armalite Bushmaster Colt [b]Second Tier ARs are:[/b] DPMS Olympic Rock River Arms Eagle Arms [b]Lower Tier ARs:[/b] ASA J&T Model 1 Sales Hesse To the site "Experts", the fact that all the makers in the top tier have at some time produced rifles that meet or exceed "military specifications" makes them the preferred choice, I tend to agree, YMMV. Mike
View Quote
I can see perception of top tier rifles being superior, especially with the chrome lined offerings, the military connections and the higher prices. Many of the other companies get parts from the same suppliers (IIRC, J&T uses a Colt firing group). But given that J&T and RRA use the same barrels, appear to use the same bolts and carriers and both use FN contract grade receivers...what is the advantage of RRA over J&T, or is it a matter of perception? I do think the kit-guns get poo-pooed as a result of brand-name snobbery, but it seemed to me that J&T, DPMS and RRA uppers all get good press here, so I was surprised to see your breakdown of tiers. To answer montecarlo97's original question, both Model 1 and J&T get good reviews in the BIY forum. I have seen customer service complaints with Model 1 and the occasional problem with a kit. The only complaints I've seen about J&T are the occasional wrong part and long lead times for some items. I have a 16" J&T kit (No surprise) on an Eagle lower and have no complaints. I'm sure I'd be equally as happy with a RRA... As mr_wilson says, you take your chances, and when you're not buying a complete rifle, the chances of a problem will increase, no matter who makes it. I think the J&T is a great value.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 2:42:58 PM EDT
Having J&T Car upper I can say that the quality fit and finish are first rate. Second to none in fact. Only thing missing is the Chrome lining. That IMHO is the only thing that brings them down to the level of DPMS, OLY and RRA. They are certainly not a step below from my experience.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 3:03:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 3:10:36 PM EDT by Javelin]
Jesse and everyone I talked with at J&T were great to work with, and I will not hesitate to buy my next AR from them. If this is a "lower tier" rifle, then I guess I'm just another happy idiot. The $300 I saved bought a lot of ammo.
View Quote
Ditto. I came to this board about four months ago to seek information and direction in the hope of finding an alternative to my POS Mini 30. The only possible means of passing this by the "Procurement Officer" (a.k.a. wife), was to equalize 'expenditures' with 'revenue'. I wasn't interested in buying second hand. BYO was the light at the end of the tunnel. I trusted everyones opinion of the J&T kits, and I'm glad I did. By the time I'm done tricking it out, I will have spent far less than an equivalent 'off the shelf' big name rifle, and will still have enough scratch to shoot it regularly. I don't need a $2400 race gun, or a display case show piece. I'm not LE or in the bowels of a combat zone. Just lookin' for a decent quality, serviceable, reliable, and fairly accurate AR. IMO I found/built it. Not ashamed to own it, or afraid to stake my life on it. If J&T (or 'Double Star') were in business manufacturing rifles 10, 20, 30+ years ago, they may well now be listed in that top tier. It boils down to what you need, can afford, and how satisfied you are with the end product....not wether it's got a snake or a pony stamped on the side. JMHO. Good luck monte!!
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 4:07:36 PM EDT
I have a Model 1 LW and see no difference in fit, finish or accuracy than any other company. Im totally satisfied with it and so was everyone that has shot it so far. I see no problem with either company. But, then again Ive been flamed by other members for comparing my model 1 to a bushmaster. As expected, most do not have a really good excuse to why their AR is so much "better" than mine, maybe its because they spent a few hundred more and don't want to admit to not researching before they buy. To each his own, as long as your happy with your purchase.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 4:13:19 PM EDT
I have a J&T and can't complain. It's as good as any I own or have shot. They pride themselves on their quality. I've never had a Model 1 but prior to buying the J&T I lurked around this site for quite sometime. I've seen numerous personal complaints about Model 1 and very few about J&T. I guess that made up my mind.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 5:54:24 PM EDT
The J&T kit I bouht a few years ago and it was 100% reliable from the get-go, better than any of my Bushmasters or RRAs, with nice new parts. I thought I had some problem parts (it actually turned out to be the receiver) and they shipped new stuff out for free. Anyone who says J&T is "Lower Tier" has never owned one.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 6:01:31 PM EDT
J & T producs are first rate in every way. Jack, Teresa, Gary, Dana, and Jessie are great people to do business with. I have never had a problem with them, and probably never will. They are Top Notch.
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