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Posted: 6/9/2003 12:16:42 AM EDT
2 questions
1: i've heard of ppl having chain guns and other full auto ordnance and now that my black rifle fever is in full sway i'd like to know about collecting really exotic weapons.

2: *I don't want to have or be seen to be asking for illegal info but since part of my AR obsession is based around a worst case scenario planning for TEOTWAWKI, what would be the best AR to own if needing to convert it effectively/easily to full auto?


*(please let me know if the 2nd question is too controversial or taboo and i'll remove it.. my only excuse is that i'm new)
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:30:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 12:31:01 AM EDT by Shadowblade]
TX is a class3 state, so you can do it legally. The short version - find a registered class3 (full auto) weapon to buy, pay for it. Fill out a form4, get CLEO signoff, submit prints for background check, pay $200 for a tax stamp. Wait. Wait some more. Eventually you get your approval and you can pick up your gun. There is no legal way to "convert it effectively/easily to full auto" unless you buy a RDIAS - for which you have to go through the same process, but it can be moved from one AR15 to another once you get it. This is the SHORT version. For better and more specific answers, go to the full-auto forum.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 2:05:00 AM EDT
Just like in the Movies "If the time comes you need an M16 there will be plenty of them laying on the ground"
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 5:47:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 5:48:35 AM EDT by shaggy]
All you need is money...and lots of it. ShadowBlade is correct, but you're probably better off trying to find a registered receiver M16 than the necessary "conversion part" at this time. Whatever you buy (a complete M16 or a conversion part) it has to be made and registered prior to May of 1986. You cannot convert any of your existing guns now, without a registered conversion part. The cheapest transferable out there right now is probably the M11 SMG - at prices approaching $1600-1800 for a NIB one (not including the $200 tax). For an M16, you're going to need a lot more - Registered sears (RDIAS) have been advertised lately for as much as $10,000. I don't know if they're getting that much, but I certainly wouldn't sell one of mine for any less. An early model M16 or a legally converted AR15 (again, made and registered prior to 1986) is going to run you in the $7,000-$8,000 range. If you want something like a factory Colt M16A2 or 635, just keep throwing $100 bills on the pile for a few minutes (well over $12,000). If yu're in the mood for something [i]really[/i] exotic, there's a nice M134 minigun on the Bowers board for about $300,000.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:00:58 AM EDT
A better way of phrasing the question..... "What aren't the laws on full auto weapons?"
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:51:44 AM EDT
I agree with all of the above. To answer your question about exotic Class III stuff, there are bunches of M-60's and Browning .50 cal's all over Nevada. It wasn't THAT many years ago our gun stores were full of that kind of stuff. As for the chain gun, I believe that fires a 25mm explosive projectile, which would put it in a different class. But I don't know if any could have made it into cicrulation before THE Ban (private sale/newly manufactured)? I can pretty much promise you though that the difference between full auto and semi auto, under the circumstances you're envisioning, isn't going to make much difference. As any of Saddam's dead "militia" would tell you, a hand full of real AK-47's does not trump a squad of highly skilled/trained professional soldiers.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 7:16:59 AM EDT
It seems to me that whenever someone at the range has an M16 I think to myself "Thats cool but he must have more money for ammo than I do". Second it occurs to me that in the event of a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI it would take alot more ammo to feed a full auto which is fine if the resupply convoy will stop by your way every day. If you have the 8K to drop on a M16 and can spend many more K for ammo then do it because you want to, you don't need any other reason to justify it. [uzi]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 7:39:33 AM EDT
okay so my 2nd question really was: In a worst case scenerio if laws weren't an issue and survival of the most well-armed was. What weapon could be most easily hand modified to auto? my guess would be an AK.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:02:07 PM EDT
Thats not a good question to be asking on an ATF monitored board. [;)]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:12:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FED-up: As for the chain gun, I believe that fires a 25mm explosive projectile, which would put it in a different class. But I don't know if any could have made it into cicrulation before THE Ban (private sale/newly manufactured)?
View Quote
Mike Dillon owns one. It is 7.62x51, designed for a Bradley FV. He also has a GE Minigun in 7.62x51, a Minimi and quad fifties. Awesome collection. Saw it on a recent American Shooter episode.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 1:15:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redjack: okay so my 2nd question really was: In a worst case scenerio if laws weren't an issue and survival of the most well-armed was. What weapon could be most easily hand modified to auto? my guess would be an AK.
View Quote
In a worst case scenario, your food supply will be your biggest problem. Look at Iraq or Adghanistan, or just about any 3rd world country. Everybody has a AK, but nobody has any food.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 2:16:09 PM EDT
I saw some sort of M4 looking full auto rifle yesterday at a show...over heard the guy behind the counter say "Full auto" and "Ten Thousand Dollars" in the same sentence. I kept on walking hehehe. Oh yeah..don't forget the $200 tax stamp [;)]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:05:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 11:07:35 PM EDT by Redjack]
to clarify my curiousity here: i have ZERO desire to have a full auto weapon and i have 10million times LESS desire to ever fire a gun at a human being but i'm building a weapon of defense with those capabilities in mind and this is just another aspect of the gun i'd like to understand. prolly should just let this thread die here since seems to be making at least one person nervous, and i really don't care that much nor know how big a deal it is in the gun community to have or have not in this area.. so thanks for all the info and forgive my newbie curiousity.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 12:09:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 4:54:16 AM EDT
Denny's right. If the S ever HTF, full auto is probably the last thing you want; semi is how you want to be shooting. You waste a lot of ammo in F/A and in the SHTF situation, you're not going to be able to call Ammoman or AIM Surplus and get an overnight delivery. And unlike any serious military force, you're not going to have a convoy of trucks to resupply you with extra food, water, ammo, etc. Don't get me wrong, full auto has its place in combat, but when you have no idea how long you may have to go without resupply, you better learn to conserve what you have and use it most efficiently. Full auto is not an efficient way to use ammo. Additionally, the AR15/M16 is not meant for sustained full auto fire. If you're not careful about how you use it, you can fry your gas tube quite easily in full auto and render your rifle useless. Ever try to replace a gas tube under fire? Me neither, and I hope I never do. Ive got a few class 3 goodies in my safe, but for SHTF, the selectors will all be set to "semi" (with the exception of the crew served weapons).
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 2:08:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 2:10:18 PM EDT by jbntex]
I understand your curosity regarding Full-Auto, as they are marvelous pieces of engineering. If you ever deceide to get into the NFA world, as expensive as it is, do it legally. Unless you are wealthy, and I mean really wealthy, collecting NFA firearms will consume all of your free cash and other hobbies. Buying machineguns is the most addictive hobby I have found yet and I have only been doing it for acouple years. I just consider myself lucky to have gotten in while some machineguns are still affordable to the masses. As for your question about what is the easiest gun to convert, there any many title I guns, (especially "open-bolt" semi's) that could be converted within a matter of minutes with nothing more than simple hand tools. However, I think that it is irresponsible for anybody to give directions to somebody on how to illegally convert a firearm. James Austin, Texas
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 4:40:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shaggy: Ive got a few class 3 goodies in my safe, but for SHTF, the selectors will all be set to "semi" (with the exception of the crew served weapons).
View Quote
Can I be in the crew? [:D]
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 4:45:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 4:47:44 PM EDT by DevL]
How to make a full auto: swap out a these semi auto parts to full auto version: bolt carrier, trigger, hammer, disconnector, selector This can be done on any AR15 and is legal although the ATF does not like this to be done and would make it a point to mess with your rifle till it doubled and put you in prison for many years. The illegal part: Drill out a hole for the auto sear of the right size in the right spot in the lower reciever. Insert a USGI type auto sear. You now have a full auto the way it was intended to be. OR Buy a non registered DIAS from the ATF agent/informant and use that instead of drilling the hole and using the regular auto sear. Either way gets select fire. Both will put you in prison. IMHO the only way to "convert to full auto" is by using full auto parts. I hear dumbasses talk about how they converted their rifle to full auto once by "wrapping the trigger pack" and all sorts of rubbish. The easiest rifles to convert to full auto would be the ones the parts just drop right in on with no receiver modifications. You can get weapons to slam fire but thats gonna blow up your gun sooner or later. I wont even mention how you can get that to happen.
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