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Posted: 6/5/2003 12:19:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 12:19:23 PM EDT by Elbudster]
Alright, I'm new here but I've read a bunch of posts and checked out the sites for bushmaster, rock river, olympic, and calvary arms websites and each website had a nice rifle I liked. My question is, what would be the best rifle for me if I needed it to be pretty accurate, lightweight, and something that I could use deerhunting? Money is going to be a problem since I'm only 14 so it will probably have to be cheap. I hope that isn't to broad.

I also read that buying a kit and a stripped lower could also save money... Would you reccomend this? If I get a kit and a stripped lower my dad could probably help me put it together.

I made this a new post because I was taking the other thread off topic. Well thanks for your help.

-Elbudster
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 12:32:56 PM EDT
Welcome Elbudster, I am somewhat of a new guy also, and based upon my limited experiences AS a new guy, I would tell you to get a kit and build it yourself. I really regret not having done that. I would also advise you to have your dad help you, because he has surely done more building of things during his life than you have. Also, it is always a good thing to have another pair of eyes checking out your work. Whatever you do, be safe.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 12:36:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 12:40:24 PM EDT by philipk]
Originally Posted By Elbudster: My question is, what would be the best rifle for me if I needed it to be pretty accurate, lightweight, and something that I could use deerhunting? Money is going to be a problem since I'm only 14 so it will probably have to be cheap.
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I love ARs but it is not the right gun for you given your requirements. For about $500 new or less used, you can buy a bolt or pump action .270, .308, .30-06, etc. with a scope. This would be your perfect western US deer rifle. For about $350 new or less used, you can buy a 30-30 or .35 Rem lever action rifle with iron sights. This would be your perfect eastern US deer rifle. I hunt in PA. You are not allowed to use any semi-automatic for hunting deer. This is true in many states. In many other states that allow semi-autos there are laws prohibting the use of .22 cal rifles for deers. Check your WI laws. Bottom line, if hunting deer is a priority, for cost and legal reasons, don't buy an AR15 as your first rifle. Buy a bolt, pump, or lever action for your first rifle. Then save your money and buy that AR15. We need young people interested in both to insure our future. Good luck. Philip
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 12:37:28 PM EDT
Ditto on being a new guy wishing he had built his own instead of buying outright. I could've saved hundreds of bucks. What kind of range do you want to be able to hunt deer at? A deer has a plenty big enough kill zone for just about any ar as long as you're not talking about shooting it at 500 yards. Also keep in mind that you probably have to use a 5 round mag for hunting in most states (I think). Here we have to use shotguns, so I'm jealous.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 12:46:43 PM EDT
I just check Wisconsin laws. You can use a semi-automatic and a .223 for deer. Thus an AR15 is legal. [url]http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/regs/03HuntingRegs.pdf[/url] Still for cost reasons, I would go with my earlier recommendations. Plus, personally, I don't like .22 centerfire rifles for deer. Philip
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 12:51:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 12:54:49 PM EDT by ZRH]
Cheap and for deer hunting = no AR. You could get a Garand if you dead set on a semi-auto but its gonna cost ya $600+. For a 14 year old whos gonna go deer hunting I would reccomend a bolt action in .30-06 or .308. A lever action in .30-30 is a good idea too. Winchester model 94s or Marlins would be the way to go for one of those. The above only cost about $500 tops. Save your money for a [b]good[/b] AR. You probably wont be able to buy a complete rifle for less than $700 and buying the parts and assembling it is gonna cost you $500 minimum. If your assembling it completely from scratch you will also need some tools and that gonna cost another $100. The big plus with an AR though when you get one is looks and the ammo is dirt cheap. For some info I didnt get my AR until this year and Ive been wanting one since I was 14 too (17 now). BTW if you live in WI (my former state, I used to live in the Fox Valley) have your parents get a pistol. I kick myself everyday for not getting one when I lived there and now here in NY I cant even touch one till Im 21.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:01:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 1:05:43 PM EDT by shotar]
Best bet for deer, and a neat rifle to boot. get an SKS and a 5 round mag. It is a fixed mag rifle, but you can change the mags with disassembly and reassmebly. Standard mag is 10 orunds which would be too much to hunt in most states. Enough power, more than sufficient accuracy. A neat military rifle, and all for probably less than $200 out the door. Problem solved. I would however discuss this with your parents. After all, it is they who will actually be responsible for the purchase even if you use your own money. FWIW, I would not buy my kid a $700+ rifle until they had a job and earned it for themselves. While age has its responsibilities it also has its rewards and being able to buy whatever cool toys you can afford is one of them.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:10:31 PM EDT
If you want an AR regardless at your age you cant handle a big, heavy rifle. Get one of the new Cav Arms lowers and a flat topr 16" Ultralight Bushmaster upper. Load it with Winchester 64 grain power point plus. When you can afford optics you can remove the carry handle and add optics as needed.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:18:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: If you want an AR regardless at your age you cant handle a big, heavy rifle. Get one of the new Cav Arms lowers and a flat topr 16" Ultralight Bushmaster upper. Load it with Winchester 64 grain power point plus. When you can afford optics you can remove the carry handle and add optics as needed.
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Cost effective (Cav Arms lowers are a good deal), lightweight, flexible (flattop), reliable (has that excellent Bushmaster chrome lined barrel), and has the better A1 length stock. Sounds like the best bet to me.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:19:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: If you want an AR regardless at your age you cant handle a big, heavy rifle. Get one of the new Cav Arms lowers and a flat topr 16" Ultralight Bushmaster upper. Load it with Winchester 64 grain power point plus. When you can afford optics you can remove the carry handle and add optics as needed.
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I was thinking along the same lines as DevL. Maybe for increase ballistics I would suggest a A2 profile(skinny under handguards)20" barrel. BTW, My Father and I have hunted and killed many many large Montana Mule deer using .222 and .223 bolt guns. I feel an AR would have been even better.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:20:28 PM EDT
A Savage 10FP bolt gun in .308 would be a good choice. The .308 is an excellant deer cartridge, has many loads available, and also has the big plus of being able to use cheap surplus military ammo. Savages are highly accurate, afordable, and their new Accu-trigger is outstanding. With the 10FP in .308, you also have the option of building it into a precision tactical rifle if you want.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:23:07 PM EDT
FWIW, I would not buy my kid a $700+ rifle until they had a job and earned it for themselves. While age has its responsibilities it also has its rewards and being able to buy whatever cool toys you can afford is one of them.
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Thats what my parents thought too. I appreciate my rifle greatly now. Although...
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:26:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Thomas_A_Anderson: A Savage 10FP bolt gun in .308 would be a good choice. The .308 is an excellant deer cartridge, has many loads available, and also has the big plus of being able to use cheap surplus military ammo. Savages are highly accurate, afordable, and their new Accu-trigger is outstanding. With the 10FP in .308, you also have the option of building it into a precision tactical rifle if you want.
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I would second this recommendation. Great gun for the money, and personally I wouldn't shoot a deer with a .223. (Just my own personal opinion)
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:38:00 PM EDT
Wow, thx for the fast replies! The only reason I would like it for deer hunting is because if my parents let me get one I would have to be able to do more than plinking with it. Yes I will be earning the money to pay for it, I'll hopefully get to work for my neighbor this summer. ZHR my dad owns a .22 pistol but thats the only pistol he owns. My dad doesn't like pistols that much because he thinks they are useless and innaccurate, I think they pretty fun after I was shooting a 9mm up north at my friends cabin. Shotar could you give me a link or something to an "SKS", I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. One more quick question, would an AK be a better first rifle for me? I heard they are pretty cheap and since they use a 7.62 they probably pack some more power, but would I be able to use that deer hunting yet though?
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 2:01:25 PM EDT
Heres a link to SKS s [url]http://www.surplusrifle.com/sks/index.asp[/url]. You can get them for under $200. Its essentially a semi-auto 7.62x39 rifle with a 10 round non detachable mag. Actually an AK is a good idea. They also fire 7.62x39mm ammo btw. It has plenty enough power to hunt with.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 2:57:32 PM EDT
Be aware Russian 7.62x39mm ammo does not expand. You will need an American made soft point round for hunting.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:09:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 3:09:56 PM EDT by Hokie]
AK is a good idea. Ballistics are similar to a 30-30. You can get a 5-round mag easy, if local hunting laws require that. Reasonably accurate (2-4" at 100 yards). You can scope it. Takes the high cap mags too, obviously. And most of all easy to afford. An AK would be a killer first rifle, if I were 14 and wanted a "Can Do" rifle. my thoughts anyway
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:11:40 PM EDT
I honestly can't understand why a 7.62X39 would be any better than a .223 for hunting. ARs look cooler too don't they Elbudster! I apologies in advance for inadvertently starting 2 [beathorse] debates. [}:)] They were developing anyway.[BD]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:19:00 PM EDT
If this turns into AR vs. AK someone just might die...
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:38:06 PM EDT
Heh, someone post that link to the 5.45x39 hunting pic :) If my wife wernt the family designated hunter now, I might test the sub-cal hunting ability. To get down to it, I'd probably avoid an assault rifle on the hunt and take one of my Mausers or an Enfield. For one you can hunt anywhere in the US that allows rifles with them, and quite a few foreign countries too. I took one of my .303s to Mexico a few years back for hunting with very limited problems. For another, if you're a new hunter, I guarentee that you'll end up running all over tarnation trying to track down the mulie or white-tail you tagged with a .223 but failed to hit accuratly enough to guarentee a disabeling shot. Finaly, you can get a C&R mauser or even a Mosin Nagant and stick it in a sporterized stock and saddle it with a wide range of optics and mounts for less than you can buy a stock for an AR type sometimes. If you go with a Mauser you can grab ammo for dirt cheap for target practice, and hunting ammo is universaly avaliable. Having some board drill Sgt.s and rangemasters willing to look the other way, we were often encouraged to "plink" the deer that overrun most ranges at Ft.Knox this last February. I will attest to the fact that a .223 will pretty efficiently kill a dear if you get it somewhere vital. Not telling you to go for an AR, I got my first real rifle when I was 14, it was a Norinco SKS. I bought it for the exact same reason you're looking for your AR. I never ever even took it into the woods. That was, eleven years ago now, and I've gone through an amazing and bewildering array of firearms, well over 200, and I never realy spent any money on it. $95 here, $200 if I got lucky there, I paid for all my weapons and learned the art of bickering over prices at gunshows. I traded my entire collection about every four months and while I had a lot of nice toys pass through my closet, I learned a lot more by trading off every so often. My final advice for you is, if you can afford it, get your AR now for fun, and spend an extra $100 on an old Mauser or something for hunting. It'll serve you a lot better in the end that way. Ultimatly firearms have played a larger role in my life than graduating college, going into the Army (so far) or getting married (again, so far). So welcome to the addiction and enjoy yourself, just remember to be safe
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:45:44 PM EDT
Hell go with a 50 BMG. You'll plink like you've never plinked before. Does a number on game too. Ever pop the head off a Maine Moose? Me neither, but it sounds very conceivable... Project #19 ... 50BMG[50]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:47:15 PM EDT
heres the link. [url]http://www.simonov.net[/url] Also, while the AK is an excellent first rifle I would bet you'd get alot less resistance with the sks. They can also be found alot cheaper and should well serve your stated purpose. In any event you should be consulting your father on this and not a bunch of strangers.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:54:05 PM EDT
Well since AK or an SKS are cheaper I want to go for one of those at the moment. I showed my dad a picture of a cool AK and he said "useless" but since I could probably bring it hunting I may be able to talk him into it [:D]. Thanks for all the help guys. -Elbudster
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 11:37:52 AM EDT
Get a remington 700 bolt gun. Very accurate and perfect first rifle for hunting. If your looking for the coolness factor get a pss or vs model in .308 or .300mag and set it up like a sniper rig. Then save your ass off for an AR.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:33:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Thomas_A_Anderson: A Savage 10FP bolt gun in .308 would be a good choice. The .308 is an excellant deer cartridge, has many loads available, and also has the big plus of being able to use cheap surplus military ammo. Savages are highly accurate, afordable, and their new Accu-trigger is outstanding. With the 10FP in .308, you also have the option of building it into a precision tactical rifle if you want.
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Great thought, and my initial reaction. BUT, for a 14 yo, maybe a lighter recoiling caliber? Maybe the 7-08 or 7x57, if available; .270 would be great too. If you are a strong kid, or are used to shooting centerfire rifles, by all means the .308 Win. Any of these are excellent for anything up to blacktail or big whitetails. Larry
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 5:38:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Elbudster: Well since AK or an SKS are cheaper I want to go for one of those at the moment. I showed my dad a picture of a cool AK and he said "useless" but since I could probably bring it hunting I may be able to talk him into it [:D]. Thanks for all the help guys. -Elbudster
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Don't get too excited, elbudster; if you want a really nice, long range hunting rifle think Bolt Gun. I have SKSs, I like them a lot; but I wouldn't use one for hunting deer unless it was a good one, and then under 150 yards only. The Savage is inexpensive and solid quality. The 7.62x39 is close to the 30-30 power at shorter ranges, but it's really kind of marginal in power and accuracy. Take some time, think it through. It would be nice if you could get together with someone to try different things. Where do you live? Maybe someone here could arrange a "try-out" day for you.
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