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Posted: 6/1/2003 5:46:00 PM EDT
I'm watching it right now. Its crazy how bad they make ARs look. Its at the part where the cops go into the gun store to get guns, at one point a cop looks at an ar and says, "I cant believe they let people buy these". The swat team calls them 223s the whole time so they can make a distinguishment between what the police use and the evil gun that people shouldent be able to buy.

It's back on now, got to go.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 5:50:32 PM EDT
I was wondering how the ARs would play out in the movie, and I agree. They make them look bad even though the gun store owner is more than willing to give the cops the guns they need.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 5:58:19 PM EDT
They have the gun store owner saying "This is a remington 700 the best sniper rifle.". It is ridiculous. The media is out of control. I think we should be more active and vocal so that our kids will be able to shoot.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 6:25:58 PM EDT
I missed a turkey last month with the "best sniper rifle ever made". Maybe I would have hit it if I had rifle that is designed for hunting only. Please help, Thanks in Advance, Jason
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 6:30:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By para-bush15: They have the gun store owner saying "This is a remington 700 the best sniper rifle.". It is ridiculous. The media is out of control. I think we should be more active and vocal so that our kids will be able to shoot.
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then all the demos think were crazy gun nuts like the guys who get killed in the show.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 6:30:37 PM EDT
Hmmmm.... Full auto AK-47s. AWB had NO effect on their legal status. Tightly regulated for decades and yet, the bad guys got them anyway... Yep... bans work... they sure do... [banghead] LF
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 6:50:51 PM EDT
I wonder if the bad guys obtained the aks legally. The show said something about the guys getting picked up another time for something small and released, and given their guns back.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:03:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2003 7:05:51 PM EDT by Mb121]
CA is not a class three state. Never was and never has been. Those people in the media can't tell a bbgun from a water pistol, all that was just a load of &#&$. Pardon me if I get to worked up but this just royally p***** me off![:(!]
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:08:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By para-bush15: They have the gun store owner saying "This is a remington 700 the best sniper rifle.". It is ridiculous. The media is out of control. I think we should be more active and vocal so that our kids will be able to shoot.
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I actually thought that that was good. Maybe enough stuff like that being said will get the deer hunters off their butts and get them to actually do something to protect their rights...
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:17:49 PM EDT
Over 1500 AK rounds fired and no one killed. That is just downright amazing. Not one LEO scored a head shot in the entire affair, that's also amazing. Seems to me that this movie ought to make people LESS scared of guns. But of course this is all just a ramp-up to the ultimate gun ban. The sheeple will express their horror and demand an end to all gun ownership. The Cop's "I can't believe that they let just anyone buy these" will become their battlecry. But first we will have to endure "12 Days in DC" or whatever the f*ck they decide to call it. DILBERT_556
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:37:33 PM EDT
the final shoot out with the last gunman by the truck(where the badguy was shooting through the windsheild of his car at police) was wrong, the guy was using a AR with a Cmag, he used a AK in the real shoot out that day. they had to have a BAD AR in the movie to make it complete. what a bunch of CRAP!!! Oh yea, the movie said nothing about the cops leaving the last guy on the ground for 45 minutes to bleed out before they called a ambulance for the guy. LA police were or are still in court about the 45 minute stall before they got help for the gunman.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:44:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556: Over 1500 AK rounds fired and no one killed. That is just downright amazing. Not one LEO scored a head shot in the entire affair, that's also amazing. Seems to me that this movie ought to make people LESS scared of guns. But of course this is all just a ramp-up to the ultimate gun ban. The sheeple will express their horror and demand an end to all gun ownership. The Cop's "I can't believe that they let just anyone buy these" will become their battlecry. But first we will have to endure "12 Days in DC" or whatever the f*ck they decide to call it. DILBERT_556
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THats how I felt about the movie. YOu know they had to throw in the "Assault Weapon" word in there, when the whole time there firing full auto aks...i.e. machine guns. They are just getting people riled up and ready to extend the ban...
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 7:48:24 PM EDT
I dont know goot, I've heard different stories about the AR at the end. Some people say they saw it in the real video. But did you notice that it was an SP1 that the bad guy had, and the cop and gun store ARs were a2s with flash hiders.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 8:05:47 PM EDT
Anyone else notice the cop with the ar mal? Cut to close-up of finger pulling trigger twice: *click click*. I didn't know they made DA triggers for ARs. Anyone know where I can get hold of that fire control group?? [banghead] LF
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:11:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By para-bush15: I dont know goot, I've heard different stories about the AR at the end. Some people say they saw it in the real video. But did you notice that it was an SP1 that the bad guy had, and the cop and gun store ARs were a2s with flash hiders.
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Actually, the AR at the end with the Beta-C, had A2 rear sights, but triangle handguards.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:14:47 PM EDT
They're playing it again. I only saw the second part, but it made me want to f****** puke, very anti-gun. Quite a surprise for FOX, a conservative network.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:30:49 PM EDT
Ok that movie was corny. The first thing I noticed was when the black officer got in the back of his patrol car to have the little talk with the kid who was arrested for the domestic. What kind of patrol car are you getting into that you can just open a rear door? Second did you see how big some of the holes in the walls were from the aks? like a canon ball went through them.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:41:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thesacrifice: What kind of patrol car are you getting into that you can just open a rear door?
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Does LAPD have a magic code to open the back doors? My county's cops get take home patrol cars and my cop neighbor's kids just hop into the back seat to go someplace with dad.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:47:56 PM EDT
I want to know where I can but some of those 70rnd drums that empty after 500 shots. I also want one of those 40rnd mags that can shoot 200 rounds before a reload. I've bump-fired mags and needed to reload after 15 seconds. Why is Mario Van Peebles still alive? I thought he got eaten in Jaws 4.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 9:52:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2003 9:57:40 PM EDT by para-bush15]
Second did you see how big some of the holes in the walls were from the aks? like a canon ball went through them.
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How about the part where the woman was hiding behind the concrete block wall and the AK was blowing baseball sized holes in it.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:02:30 PM EDT
This happened in 97, right? And it looked like the cops were using prebans. Good thing they didn't have postbans; a postban would not have been able to wound the last guy in the leg (they just had to show those wounds for a matter of minutes) because it doesn't have the flash suppressor or the bayonet lug. Another thing, that M-16 the last guy was using just had to have a collapsable in the collapsed position.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:10:08 PM EDT
about the concrete blocks... wouldn't the entry hole be relatively small but the exit hole much bigger due to bullet fragmentation? i know the scene was hollywood-ized for dramatic effect, but is it not reasonable for the exit holes to be that big?
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:15:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/1/2003 10:16:35 PM EDT by para-bush15]
I dont know that they would even get throught the wall. It looked like a good distance. Oh btw the guns from the gun store looked like pre bans to.
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 10:42:10 PM EDT
I watched closely, but didn'y catch att the details some here did! How about the news 'copters televising for all of LA to spectate. How many times did the media say, "shooting hundreds of rounds from their AK-47's" Well those drums at about 75 rounds, but the bad guys seemed to have an endless supply of drums. And after 10 minutes of seeing them hit with bullets you would think someons could sneak in a head, or hand shot. Truth is they were probably never trained for other than 'center of mass'. The cops were seriously outgunned no doubt. But that first civilian casualty, the girl walking the dog (yeah the girl with the nice cans!), what a hottie! I'd hit it! (just had to work that in before someone beat me to it!
Link Posted: 6/1/2003 11:37:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:44:11 AM EDT
I taped the movie. What a joke. They basically made it glamorus with all the bullets flying, etc... full auto, etc... I don't know - but that scene where the LEO's were in the gun store and the cop said, "I can't believe they let anyone buy these, etc..." pissed me off. The movie didn't portray the right things. But this is like beating a dead horse....
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:10:00 AM EDT
I have the most "short and to the point" response to this: [puke] I'm not going to bother writing out my logical response, I'll just give myself a stroke... I swear that [my reaction to] Liberals will give me a heart attack before I turn 30.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:58:17 AM EDT
I WAS thinking about taping this. Now I HAPPY I didn`t.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:22:31 AM EDT
I'm sure there were people wondering why the LAPD could not score head hits with their Beretta's--I know why, cause it's HARD! Especially when someone is slinging lead back! The front sight of a Beretta will just about cover a torso at 50 yds so it's tough to index it for a head shot. The guys with the 12 ga pump guns should have gone for the legs with 00 buck, but they could not get close enough, (figure 25 yds is about max with a 12 ga pump gun Imp. Cylinder choke) because of the AK threat. Drives home the point very nicely that when you know that you're going to a gunfight BRING A RIFLE. (The SWAT officer knew that--told everyone to keep the MP5's in the armory) The writers did have to get their anti-gun jabs, the B&B gun shop scene was ridiculous especially the gun shop owner thinking that a Heavy Barrel Moonscope equipped Remington Bolt Gun was the "answer" to what was happening. LOL! I'll be reading about that in a future isue of the NRA's "America's First Freedom" magazine. (That's the magazine that focuses on Second Amendment Rights). Also at the end they said that LAPD supervisors now have "M-16 Machine Guns" in their vehicles! The final point, Jeff Cooper has opined that the sociopath has always been a poor marksman-- the North Hollywood shootout make it clear. Hundreds if not thousands of rounds fired by the two scums with the AK's and other arms (Looked like an H&K G-3, and an AR-15 with a drum magazine) But some well trained SWAT guys firing AR-15's in a controlled, aimed, Semi-Auto fashion carried the day and ended the violence. "Bullets hitting targets equals firepower" --Melvin Johnson (designer of the WW-II Johnson Semi-auto rifle and Machine Gun)
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:25:28 AM EDT
I freaked out with the first 2 minutes when the guy was talkinga bout how people like this with this kind of firepower might live next door to you today,, i knew the spin was on and going top speed, Another thing , to the ak guys , i am gald they were not using AR from the get go the death count would have been much higher, NO KILLS thats amazing , only thing to kill that day was a cop with a 357 and a AR , the AKs with there flawless fire power were unable to score hits with any leathality.....looks like it just wounds , and it dosnt do a good job at that just stirin the pot MONGO
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:47:19 AM EDT
I especially liked those fancy rounds that the baddies had. Those big sparks that fly everywhere must be extra deadly.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:41:24 AM EDT
Those Ak`s magically fired single shots or full-auto without ever touching the selector switch. Maybe they just had good trigger control.[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 7:50:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 7:54:38 AM EDT by triburst1]
Originally Posted By zipdrive: Also at the end they said that LAPD supervisors now have "M-16 Machine Guns" in their vehicles!
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They do have M16s in their trunks now. US military surplus M16A1s.
The final point, Jeff Cooper has opined that the sociopath has always been a poor marksman-- the North Hollywood shootout make it clear. Hundreds if not thousands of rounds fired by the two scums with the AK's and other arms (Looked like an H&K G-3, and an AR-15 with a drum magazine) But some well trained SWAT guys firing AR-15's in a controlled, aimed, Semi-Auto fashion carried the day and ended the violence.
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Although not depicted in the movie, the gunmen did not shoot to kill. They used suppressive fire as they tried to escape. When firing on the officers, they aimed low. That is why most were shot in the legs.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 9:44:58 AM EDT
The cops violated the law when they didn't fill out the proper paper work and comply with the waiting period. There is no exception to this law. Was anyone prosecuted?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:24:17 AM EDT
Did you catch the part where they said that the two guys had been caught with an illegal AK and had only been jailed for 6 months??? That's why CA is so screwed up!! No, No, it's got to be the gun's fault!!! [:(!]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:31:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HackSawTom: The cops violated the law when they didn't fill out the proper paper work and comply with the waiting period. There is no exception to this law. Was anyone prosecuted?
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Thats what I kept thinking about too. Just because your a cop doesnt mean your exempt from the law.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 11:43:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:35:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shootemup:
Originally Posted By Dilbert_556: Over 1500 AK rounds fired and no one killed. That is just downright amazing. Not one LEO scored a head shot in the entire affair, that's also amazing. Seems to me that this movie ought to make people LESS scared of guns. But of course this is all just a ramp-up to the ultimate gun ban. The sheeple will express their horror and demand an end to all gun ownership. The Cop's "I can't believe that they let just anyone buy these" will become their battlecry. But first we will have to endure "12 Days in DC" or whatever the f*ck they decide to call it. DILBERT_556
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THats how I felt about the movie. YOu know they had to throw in the "Assault Weapon" word in there, when the whole time there firing full auto aks...i.e. machine guns. They are just getting people riled up and ready to extend the ban...
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I musta missed the part where they said "assault weapon". Coulda sworn they referred to them as machineguns. BUT, if I did miss that... This would be the first (or one of the first) times the term was used right. If they were select fire (I am pretty sure I saw some single shot action happening, too) rifles, they were really assault weapons. You should probably just stick with getting ticked off at the anti's calling semi's "assault weapons", cause in this case it was actually used properly.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:52:23 PM EDT
well as you guys know i work from 7pm to 7 am i had my wife tape it for me. i just watched it. totaly antigun. i bet we see this movie aired alot more as we get closer to sep 04.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:07:25 PM EDT
Troy: Do you have more information about the Discovery Channel's Documentary on the Hollywood Shootout? I searched their website but couldn't find it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:22:04 PM EDT
The Discovery Channel piece was done a long time ago -- like more than a year or two ago. It re-airs occasionally. On balance it tells the story of these two nut-jobs who are up against police that don't have enough firepower. So the net message wasn't "we have to ban 'assault weapons'", but was "the police need to be armed well enough to go up against guys like this". It wasn't preachy or anti-gun at all.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:38:46 PM EDT
Any idea on the title of the DSC piece, or what series it was part of?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:03:11 PM EDT
I thought it was great that the cops said, "We need some assault rifles." Don't they know that they're in Kalifornia? I would think that the cops would know that assault rifles are illegal in Kali, but why not. It made the AR sound mean and was fuel for the anti's fire.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:05:26 PM EDT
I wish it had been more like Assault Weapons come to the rescue. If it wasnt for B&B gun the cops wouldda been S.O.L.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:15:49 PM EDT
gunshop didnt have anything to do with outcome of the firefight..it was over b4 grocery cart boy got there..it was trivial to the plot and outcome..it was the swat guys that eventually got there..and as sumone stated earlier (sumwhere)..why didnt they coordinate their efforts..the guys jus stood there, even in the real shootout..plenty of take aim shots IMO.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:02:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 4:05:55 PM EDT by Mb121]
Originally Posted By triburst1:
Originally Posted By zipdrive: Also at the end they said that LAPD supervisors now have "M-16 Machine Guns" in their vehicles!
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They do have M16s in their trunks now. US military surplus M16A1s.
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Yes they are M16A1's from the military but they were altered to eliminate full-auto fire. The only personel that has full-auto M16A1's are SWAT, every member is assigned a M16A1. Each altered M16A1 is assigned to a Sergeant in the trunk of their squad car.
Originally Posted By ar15zams: I thought it was great that the cops said, "We need some assault rifles." Don't they know that they're in Kalifornia? I would think that the cops would know that assault rifles are illegal in Kali, but why not. It made the AR sound mean and was fuel for the anti's fire.
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Actually at the time of the shootout there weren't any ban on the so called "assault weapons". Afterwards those new regulations were placed on the public. If you read carefully you'll sometimes find a article about CA wanting to add to the ban.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 5:17:08 PM EDT
There was a guy on here one time that had just bought one of the ARs that the police got from B&B. I think it was an eagle arms. It had a letter of authenticity and all of that good stuff. I dont know if I would pay a whole lot more for a gun like that, but it would be cool to have one.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:11:57 PM EDT
Damn. I taped this and was looking forward to watching it. Now I have no desire to see it. Dooh..... Brad
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:19:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TPS-Report: about the concrete blocks... wouldn't the entry hole be relatively small but the exit hole much bigger due to bullet fragmentation? i know the scene was hollywood-ized for dramatic effect, but is it not reasonable for the exit holes to be that big?
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[center]Hard to say. I shot the tailgate of my truck several times with my AK about 2 months ago and the exit holes were proportionate to the size bullet and actually smaller than the entrance holes. Maybe I'll test some concrete blocks this weekend.[/center]
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 6:23:19 PM EDT
Believe me when the first opening happened I was disgusted. The part about the AK47 being a high volocity round made to go through body armor. The AK47 was not made to be a high volocity round, it was a shortened cartridge of their bolt action caliber the 7.62x54 I think it was. It was in no way made to defeat body armor, body armor back in the 1940's was almost nonexistent except for flak jackets but they were never entended to stop rifle or small arms fire. Then the gun store scene, that made me want to just jump up and strangle the fox producers for their stupidity. I think that everyone can pick out moments in the movie were something was off. I can think of at least 14 off the top of my head, if I watch it again more carefully I am sure that I can find 10 + more.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 8:24:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 8:25:10 PM EDT by Msokol13]
I love how everyone thinks that people with assault rifles are killers or messed up in the head, perhaps I should drive my car in the middle of my local mall and mowe down a couple hundred people. Then that way people can begin saying that everyone who drives a car is a killer and psycho. haha
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