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Posted: 5/29/2003 9:07:02 AM EDT
I shoot highpower matches at a local club with my m1a nm. being its only 100 yd range i can see a lot of advantages to using a ar. my local dealer has several bm,s and 1 armalite a v match 20in would be about $75. less then the armalite. other then warr any advantage to either? both are flat tops. thanks
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:14:32 AM EDT
Could be mistaken, but if your intention is "AR [b]Service Rifle[/b]" class, think you'll want a DCM/CMP version A2 rifle, not the flat-top. Mike
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 9:15:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2003 9:59:59 AM EDT by aspen]
no dcm. hi power rifle does not need be a service rifle
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:02:48 AM EDT
BUSHMASTER Why? Mine shoots better than I can hold, and I'm at the 2000 round mark with no malfunctions. None.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:15:47 AM EDT
Both are fine rifles........I've always been an ArmaLite guy and so I'm going to lean toward ArmaLite. Is the rifle your dealer has the M15A4(T) ?? If so, with the right shooter and match ammunition you're likely to see one ragged hole at 100 yds.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:24:48 AM EDT
m15a4
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 11:31:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By aspen: m15a4
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I got one and it rocks-it outshoots my capabilities.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:01:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By W-W:
Originally Posted By aspen: m15a4
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I got one and it rocks-it outshoots my capabilities.
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Yep - I've got an M15A4 too and it certainly outshoots my capabilities !
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:09:23 PM EDT
V-match is supposedly 1 ragged hole at 100 yards as well Both are quality rifles... I already have a BM and love it, never a problem. I'd support them right now as they just bought Professional Ordnance, so they could use some extra $ to kick that product back out and working 100%. =) Support Arm. by getting an AR10
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:22:52 PM EDT
The one thing your are not telling us is which models of the rifles he has - then we could tell you which would be preffered. Both are good companies. But for a Match rifle I'd want the best match barrel possible - so that rules out the chrome lined barrels (both companies produce rifles with chrome lined barrels). So which of the rifles does he have in stock WITHOUT the chrome lined barrel? Bushmaster has their DCM & Varminter and they can produce 'custom' rifles with their stainless & chrome moly barrels. Bushmaster's V-Match [b][i]is[/i][/b] chrome lined - it will shoot better than their standard rifles but not as well as the ones with the unlined barrels. Armalite's match rifles all have stainless barrels IIRC.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:33:41 PM EDT
I agree. I have a bushmaster varmint special and the thing is a tack driver. It's got the stainless heavy barrel, so no chrome lining for me.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:34:45 PM EDT
My father-in-law shoots service rifle matches with an Armalite. He performed the recommended barrel break-in, and he was shooting single hole groups at 100yds off-hand. It's a great rifle. He likes it very well. --Otter
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 12:44:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ottergt: My father-in-law...was shooting single hole groups at 100yds off-hand. --Otter
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Dayamn. I can barely do this with optics on a bench on a good day. Maybe if I only take ONE shot offhand[:D]
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 2:24:40 PM EDT
he has a varmiter i can get out the door for $800.00
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:18:28 PM EDT
Great price. Just paid $1020+tx for mine. And that's lowball for my area. Some shops want $1180 around here.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:35:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By aspen: he has a varmiter i can get out the door for $800.00
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I just did a quick check on the rifle and the lowest price I found is $969. Are you sure the rifle is new ?? Does it have the stainless barrel ??
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 4:19:45 PM EDT
blue barrel gun is new. the shop owner is a friend and wants to move it. He has about 8 bms in stock. His prices are low to begin with and untill 1st of june he is takeing 10% off all new guns
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 5:36:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By aspen: blue barrel gun is new. the shop owner is a friend and wants to move it. He has about 8 bms in stock. His prices are low to begin with and untill 1st of june he is takeing 10% off all new guns
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aspen, please remember I'm one of the ArmaLite guys and I'm no Bushmaster expert. The B/M Varminter has the low-end barrel - chrome moly. (The barrel progression is chrome moly, chrome lined, stainless match.) The barrel is free-floated and fluted. Now if we only knew what model ArmaLite your dealer has we could do some apples-to-apples comparison.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 4:14:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 6:29:48 AM EDT by ottergt]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted By ottergt: My father-in-law...was shooting single hole groups at 100yds off-hand. --Otter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dayamn. I can barely do this with optics on a bench on a good day. Maybe if I only take ONE shot offhand
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He's very good with a rifle, but he was having a reeeaaallllly good afternoon that day [:)] That wasn't typical for him. There are guys at his club that shoot waaaaaay better than he does, though. And don't forget, his matches are usually using 200 or 300 (offhand slow-fire, sitting rapid fire), and 600 yds (prone slow-fire) with open sights .
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 2:43:40 PM EDT
5subslr5: I take exception to the "barrel progression is chrome-moly, chrome lined, stainless match". A chrome-moly alloy barrel and a stainless steel alloy barrel are every bit equal IF they are rifled to the same tolerances. The alloy has nothing to do with performance except for the rifling manufacturer. Most prefer to cut stainless since it is easier on their tools. A chrome lined barrel can't be as close toleranced since a plating layer is being laid down and it is very hard to get a uniform thickness over a long skinny bore.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 3:57:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2003 4:01:28 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
Originally Posted By ArmyOrdGuy: 5subslr5: I take exception to the "barrel progression is chrome-moly, chrome lined, stainless match". A chrome-moly alloy barrel and a stainless steel alloy barrel are every bit equal IF they are rifled to the same tolerances. The alloy has nothing to do with performance except for the rifling manufacturer. Most prefer to cut stainless since it is easier on their tools. A chrome lined barrel can't be as close toleranced since a plating layer is being laid down and it is very hard to get a uniform thickness over a long skinny bore.
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Maybe we can agree that chrome moly is most often used on lower priced rifles and stainless on most match barrels. However, let's leave the chrome moly alone and take a look at those relatively inaccurate chrome lined barrels. I don't know if the process has gotten better or what but maybe a year to a year and one half ago I read a review on the FN police rifle - a bolt gun. The FN with a chrome-lined barrel out-shot three $4000+ rifles. At that time the FN was retail $1000. I work down in the AR-10 & AR-180 Forum where many of our members report MOA accuracy with their ArmaLite AR-10A4 rifles with the standard chrome lined barrels. Maybe I just don't understand all I don't know about barrels !!
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 4:36:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 6:00:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: But the fact that a standard, run-of-the-mill chrome-lined machinegun barrel, machined down and installed on a bolt gun, could outshoot other custom target rifles, is pretty amazing. -Troy
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I've got to tell you I was pretty amazed. This subject came up a month or so ago and one of the other mods posted he had read the same review and actually bought the FN rifle while it was still at the $1000 price.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 6:37:19 PM EDT
I've started shooting National Match with a rack grade M1A chrome lined barrel. What put me into expert and even got me a couple of masters scores was free floating that chrome lined barrle.
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:06:43 PM EDT
Bushies are great guns....but I would vote for the M15...the samples I have used are extra smooth.....
Link Posted: 5/30/2003 8:49:40 PM EDT
Armalite all the way.
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