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Posted: 5/12/2003 9:45:28 PM EDT
I just received my Vortex suppressor from SOG Armory. I hear that it is supposed to be superior to anything else on the market including the Phantom, which is also good. I have not installed it yet because I am awaiting a new crush washer. Can the Vortex be considered a flash suppressor like my standard A2 birdcage? Can you people who know about the Vortex please feel me in on it? For example, the way it works.

Thanks,
Nick
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 9:47:52 PM EDT
It's only a flash suppressor, What were you expecting it to be?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:12:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David_Hineline: It's only a flash suppressor, What were you expecting it to be?
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No it's not just any other regular flash suppressor. I wasn't expecting another smartass comment from you. Isn't the Vortex supposed to greatly reduce the flash at night? Here is the link I read which made me make the decision to purchase the Vortex. I just want to know more about it. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=159256[/url]
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:19:17 PM EDT
It is one of, if not the, best flash suppressors on the market. It will almost eliminate flash even from carbines at night. I am not familiar with its operating principles.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:37:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:37:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 10:44:35 PM EDT by MarineNP]
Originally Posted By Combat_Jack: It is one of, if not the, best flash suppressors on the market. It will almost eliminate flash even from carbines at night. I am not familiar with its operating principles.
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Thanks Jack and Treetop. The reason I thought I needed the washer was because when I tightened the Vortex to the limit (as tight as it will go), there was still threads exposed, even with my existing peel washer. I was planning on using the crush washer as a shim to cover up the exposed threads. Any recommendations?
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:49:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 10:49:56 PM EDT
Gotcha. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:36:40 PM EDT
i just use the regular split lock washers with my Vortex or Phantoms and install hand tight anfter putting some anti seize on the threads.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 1:25:13 AM EDT
Wasn't trying to be a smart ass. You asked if it's a flash suppressor like you wanted it to be something more. Yes it is the best flash suppressor cept for silencers.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 1:31:01 AM EDT
Yes it is 100% on mine, 99% of the time, using so caled milsurp ammo. SA Battle Packs XM193 Q3131A I cant believe how effective it is, but [b]it is[/b]! Its works so well, I am having one pinned on a 14.5". There is an issue of good ones versus bad ones (defective). I got mine from a guy who knows the difference. If you are only screwing it on, no biggie. Worst case scenario it opens up and breaks off.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 3:01:03 AM EDT
As others have lauded the Vortex, from a flash suppression aspect, they are the best. One thing to consider, the original M-16 first used in Vietnam came with a similarly constructed 3-prong type FS, you'll notice it is no longer in use. FWIW, the reason it is no longer in use is because the Vortex and the original 3-prong FS tended to hang on vines, brush and limbs when attempting to "didi" thru the bush. While for some, this is not considered a problem, for those of us who think of "heading to the woods" in a SHTF senario, having a rifle that does not hang on every blooming thing in the woods is a much better choice. Something to consider when building and developing a rifle one plans to depend on is, will it pass the "100 yard dash thru the jungle/woods test". You'd be suprised how many accessory items, which look cool in practice become a nightmare in thick canopy conditions. Something I consider, before reaching for my wallet.... Mike
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 5:17:08 AM EDT
Also the unsuported fingers of the Vortex can act like a tuning fork this has caused poor quality knock offs of the vortex to oscillate and actually break off a finger. Make sure you get a real Vortex and not a knockoff.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 5:27:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 5:49:56 AM EDT
I've tried both the vortex and phantom on a 14.5" barrel and both are great at flash reduction. In the daytime or dust I can not tell the difference in flash suppression since there appears to be no flash present. But I decided to go with the phantom because of prongs on the vortex kept getting hung on clothes when carrying the rifle. If it wasn't for that I would go the vortex. If Smith Enterprises changed the prong layout to prevent this they would probably end up with a phantom. [:)]
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 6:36:30 AM EDT
are the vortex and/or phantom flash supressors supposed to be used only on pre-ban rifles? thanks, mcole
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 7:04:50 AM EDT
No. You can place a Phantom or Vortex on any NFA weapon, fixed mag AR15, pump action AR15, single shot AR15, AR15 without a pistol grip, Dealer samples, Govt/LE only models, and perhaps a few other exceptions. Normal guys like me, who want a real AR15 must have a Preban rifle in order to have a Vortex.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 5:40:44 PM EDT
Short rifles and shotguns must comply with 94 assault weapons bans so no not any NFA rifle can have a flash hider.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 7:42:07 PM EDT
For you guys who have the 'real' Vortex, this is the one I ordered from SOG Armory. Is this the good one, the 'real' one, like it says? [url]http://www.sogarmory.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=101351[/url]
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 10:29:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mr_wilson: You'd be suprised how many accessory items, which look cool in practice become a nightmare in thick canopy conditions.
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Well I don't didi through the woods, but mine did get stuck coming down a chain link fence in the urban jungle. Something to think about. It was however, the best flash killer I've used.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 2:50:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MarineNP: I just received my Vortex suppressor from SOG Armory. I hear that it is supposed to be superior to anything else on the market including the Phantom, which is also good. I have not installed it yet because I am awaiting a new crush washer. Can the Vortex be considered a flash suppressor like my standard A2 birdcage? Can you people who know about the Vortex please feel me in on it? For example, the way it works. Thanks, Nick
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Smith Enterprises is going to release the G6 Vortex soon. It has a skirt to cover the threads. They told me [b]not[/b] to use a washer as it will negatively effect the function of the flash suppressor.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 4:15:52 AM EDT
I've seen two of them, straight from Bushmaster, mounted on 14.5" barrels, [b]blow apart.[/b] Heat caused by rapid fire will cause the tines to open up and finally blow off. Bushmaster made it right, but the new one blew apart again. That's why I switched to a phantom.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 4:21:33 AM EDT
I recently attended a four day rifle course and like most of these courses, we had a brief night shoot. We were all on the firing line and we went down the line and each fired a few shots with our rifle so everyone could see what our ammo/flash suppressor or muzzle brake looked like when fired at night. One guy had a Vortex flash suppressor and when he fired, I saw absolutely nothing. Just heard a gunshot. Not the slightest spark. I have been through this drill several times before but had never seen the Vortex before that night. I can tell you that after seeing a lot of flash suppressors and muzzlebrakes fired at night, that the Vortex is incredible.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 4:42:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2003 2:29:23 PM EDT by WSAR15]
There are two "Vortex" from what I've seen. - The "Sommers Vortex" from Smith Enterprises with twisted prongs - The "Vortex" by Dan Young with straight prongs(sold by SOGARMORY as the original Vortex????). Is there a difference between the two in terms of performance and quality. Who has the true "Vortex"?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 5:14:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By WSAR15: There are two "Vortex" from what I've seen. - The "Sommers Vortex" from Smith Enterprises with twistes prongs. - The "Vortex" by Dan Young with straight prongs. Is there a difference between the two in terms of performance and quality.
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The only "Vortex" I have experience w/ is Smith Enterprises', it's the one I consider the absolute best in flash suppression. Sorry but I have no clue as to the performance of the second one w/ straight prongs. Mike
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 7:35:05 AM EDT
For What It's Worth: I got a vortex on a colt m4 some time ago and have not shot with it yet. However; I purchased a genuine M4 colt 14.5 upper and decided to have a smith vortex pinned on it. Making it a legal 16". I contacted Smith Enterprises myself and ordered a vortex designed with the two holes already drilled before being heat treated. I had this vortex sent to Kurt to pin on my upper. It has a V I believe on the side. My other one does not have any markings. Just my two cents worth.
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