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Posted: 5/12/2003 7:28:23 PM EDT
Is it just me or are you guys sick of hearing these .308 fanatics bitch about how "puny" the ar round is and about it's inablity to be combat-worthy? I am also a member of Texas-Minutemen and I always read these rednecks bitch about how the 5.56 round is incapable of pentrating a t-shirt. It always seems that these are the same people who own a M1A rifle.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:40:31 PM EDT
Those of us who have seen wounds caused by the "puny" round know better.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:46:15 PM EDT
You don't believe everything else the Texans tell yah, do you? I heard that they been known to exaggerate about a buncha things.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:09:27 PM EDT
You could always trade off with them at the range, shoot up a shit load of their ammo, and then say "yeah I see what you mean." Or do a 30 round mag dump and ask them to show you how to do that with their M1A! Or just hang a T-shirt on the target stand and ask them to hang their spotting scope around on the back side of it. Of course, you could just let 'em bitch. IN PUNY WE TRUST! DILBERT_556
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:19:06 PM EDT
Fact is, at 2800 FPS or greater, (impact velocity, not muzzle velocity) there are few rounds that are better designed for severely wounding or killing a human being. It fragments violently at the right depth in the chest cavity to do maximum damage. .308 penetrates the chest cavity completely without expanding much. (Ball ammo...) So it leaves a hole but doesn't do massive tissue damage in comparison to what the 5.56 round does. In Vietnam, the North Vietnamese and guerillas considered the M16 to be a weapon well worth fearing because they saw what the round was doing to their comrades. In fact, the NVA mounted some raids for the SPECIFIC purpose of capturing M16's and ammo for their own uses against our troops. Its superior accuracy and round effectiveness was something the NVA wanted. CJ
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:23:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By PaDanby: You don't believe everything else the Texans tell yah, do you? I heard that they been known to exaggerate about a buncha things.
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[ROFL] No not us. Well you know the saying, "Everthing's BIGGER in Texas!"
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:26:19 PM EDT
A fragmenting 5.56 round is far more devastating than a 7.62X51 ball round. They can't argue otherwise. I've read everything I could get my hands on including ALL of Fackler's articles. A .308 loaded with a ballistic tip is a different story. I like my FAL, but the weight (rifle/.308 round).
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:04:37 PM EDT
If I want big and fast I take the ol' bolt action to the range. .300 wby mag, 110 grn hornady V-max. 3900 fps.... thats smoking. However, I wouldn't want to carry that thing around with a couple hundred rounds of ammo. Thats what the black rifle is for. Next time they tell you it's a puny round, if they would mind you using there truck as a backstop.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:30:20 PM EDT
You can stop those arguments with two short words: DC Sniper.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 11:42:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 11:45:18 PM EDT by 5subslr5]
The 5.56mm round is plenty lethal when coupled with high velocity. Without the "HV" in SCHV you just have a .22 cal round. We just keep chopping the barrels - 16" - 14.5" - 11" and keep chopping the velocity. Heavier bullets - up to 77grn are helping. (Direct from a USMC After Action Report from Iraq: "5.56mm definitely carried the mail.....")
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 12:08:52 AM EDT
While the 7.62 MIGHT be more effective when viewed overall the worst a 7.62 can do at optimal conditions pales in comparison to that of a 5.56 at full velocity. What you have here is not better or worse, but different rounds for different applications. THERE IS NO MIRACLE OR ALL-PURPOSE ROUND. That is why we have everything from .22 cal to .50 BMG
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 5:45:55 AM EDT
Try looking at the 5.7X 28 round being tried out thats small !!!!
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 6:29:02 AM EDT
I fail to see how owning a M1A and preferring 7.62 to 5.56 makes me a 'redneck'. Alex
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 6:30:05 AM EDT
ugh
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 8:08:23 AM EDT
Listen to "Gods Frozen Chosen" up here. We know some things about "puny" 5.56 ammo. :)
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 8:41:44 AM EDT
You can easily convince them that the 5.56 round is battle worthy. Just ask them to let you shoot at them while they wear a t-shirt that it wont penetrate.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 8:42:59 AM EDT
"...back in the good ole' days, we as real men, and carried big ole' guns, that fired big ole' bullets."
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 9:25:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By triburst1: "...back in the good ole' days, we as real men, and carried big ole' guns, that fired big ole' bullets."
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M1 boys...or not?
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:11:19 AM EDT
Unless it's the dead of winter and the target is 600+ yards away, I would prefer an M16. Chet
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 1:42:35 PM EDT
If I'm allowed to have softpoints, and I don't need to carry it far or lay down suppressive fire, I prefer my M1 Garand. If many targets real quick, I have to walk far, or I need suppressive fire capabilities I want the AR. If I need hard target penetration, then my M1, or an M14) with blacktip rounds. Too many variables to say anything covers them all. There are times I want the 45/70 over either! Larry
Link Posted: 5/16/2003 10:32:59 PM EDT
One answer to people who talk about how wimpy a given caliber is, is to ask them just how much someone would have to pay them to have them stand in the doorway of an emergency room and then let themselves get shot dead center in the chest with one round of it. That usually shuts them up. John
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 2:56:03 PM EDT
Show me a man who'll stand up and let you drill holes in him, PERIOD. If he's that crazy you might be kind enough to let him know whether you're going to use a .308 or .223 caliber supersonic drill-bit.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:27:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:32:18 PM EDT
At the range the other day, My friend and I were shooting at a quarter inch plate target 200 yards with 3131A and these rounds were passing right thru. I thought this round was a little wimpy before but I changed my mind.
Link Posted: 5/17/2003 6:50:43 PM EDT
About year ago I went into the local Guns-R-Us and told them I was looking for a Mini-14. I liked the .223 and I wanted to plink. They immediately talked me out of the Ruger and proceeded to talk me into an FN-FAL. Their argument was "Armor piercing capabilities." That, and the fact it was a "legal hunting round". But those FAL's are so DAMN heavy! I passed and moved on and bought an AK-47. I've been back countless times and to be honest with you guys, they still have the FAL's and they are going through AR-15's like wild fire. They can't keep em on the shelves. Sumpin must be right with these AR15 contraptions! :-)
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