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Posted: 4/24/2003 5:57:44 PM EDT
I have always heard hesse ar 15s are crap. I saw one for the first time today. The thing had a PLASTIC upper reciever. The lower was also plastic. You couldnt pay me to shoot that thing. I cant believe anyone would buy junk like that.
Link Posted: 4/25/2003 7:10:14 AM EDT
Yeup, I have never owned a Hess but I have never heard of one of these "plastic" recievers failing,(I think they are carbon fiber though) calvery arms also uses a type of resin or plastic for their lower recievers and we here nothing but good reviews about them. Food for thought next time you here a argument about cast or forged aluninum.
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 9:03:55 PM EDT
I'm not going to try to build up Hesse (now Vulcan) Arms, but can swear to the durability and impact resistance of the carbon fiber material. I was involved in a project at Beech Aircraft (now Raytheon Aircraft) when they began building the Beech "Starship" model, one of the first all composite aircraft ever to be certified to fly. Part of my job was doing nondestructive testing on the static and fatugue test articles they tested to get these aircraft certified. That material is light weight, tough, extremely damage resistant and self lubricating to boot. It far out performed aluminum in every test they put it through, with the exception of lightning strike. To give it resistance to lightning, they had to weave metal screen throughout the material. That was to distribute the lightning over a wider area. Again, I'm not a fan of Hesse Arms, but would put that material up against any aluminum you care to mention.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 2:18:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By boeboe: I'm not going to try to build up Hesse (now Vulcan) Arms, but can swear to the durability and impact resistance of the carbon fiber material. I was involved in a project at Beech Aircraft (now Raytheon Aircraft) when they began building the Beech "Starship" model, one of the first all composite aircraft ever to be certified to fly. Part of my job was doing nondestructive testing on the static and fatugue test articles they tested to get these aircraft certified. That material is light weight, tough, extremely damage resistant and self lubricating to boot. It far out performed aluminum in every test they put it through, with the exception of lightning strike. To give it resistance to lightning, they had to weave metal screen throughout the material. That was to distribute the lightning over a wider area. Again, I'm not a fan of Hesse Arms, but would put that material up against any aluminum you care to mention.
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I agree. I think the material in the Hesse is actually called Carbon Amarid. I think he's got a really good idea that's been plagued w/ immense quality control issues. I know everyone slams Hesse/Vulcan, but I really think he could make some waves in the industry if he could get his shit together on the rest of the rifle.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:48:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BigJ491:
Originally Posted By boeboe: I'm not going to try to build up Hesse (now Vulcan) Arms, but can swear to the durability and impact resistance of the carbon fiber material. I was involved in a project at Beech Aircraft (now Raytheon Aircraft) when they began building the Beech "Starship" model, one of the first all composite aircraft ever to be certified to fly. Part of my job was doing nondestructive testing on the static and fatugue test articles they tested to get these aircraft certified. That material is light weight, tough, extremely damage resistant and self lubricating to boot. It far out performed aluminum in every test they put it through, with the exception of lightning strike. To give it resistance to lightning, they had to weave metal screen throughout the material. That was to distribute the lightning over a wider area. Again, I'm not a fan of Hesse Arms, but would put that material up against any aluminum you care to mention.
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I agree. I think the material in the Hesse is actually called Carbon Amarid. I think he's got a really good idea that's been plagued w/ immense quality control issues. I know everyone slams Hesse/Vulcan, but I really think he could make some waves in the industry if he could get his shit together on the rest of the rifle.
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so far as trusting polymers, ArmaLite has successfully (but not without one early problem) used polymers in their new AR-180B. Now would I trust something made by Hess ?? No. boeboe, I had an MU-2F when that Starship came out. That puppy was so fine that I avoided parking anywhere near one !!
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 10:29:38 AM EDT
I have no problem with synthetic materials in weapons, but I would not buy a Hesse. I saw one of their AKs that looked like it was made from recycled tin cans painted black.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 2:02:14 PM EDT
Big, yes, there are several such composite materials, all falling into the category of Aramid. Dictionary definition of aramid is: "Main Entry: ar·a·mid Pronunciation: 'ar-&-m&d, -"mid Function: noun Etymology: aromatic polyamide Date: 1972 : any of a group of lightweight but very strong heat-resistant synthetic aromatic polyamide materials that are fashioned into fibers, filaments, or sheets and used especially in textiles and plastics". The Beech Starship used a few different kinds, mainly the "graphite" material, as well as kevlar around the fuel cells and of course, fiberglass (on the bottom of the list for strength). The big difference I've noticed between the composite firearm frames and the aircraft structures is, in aircraft, they tend to use the weave direction of the cloth to enhance the strenght characteristics in certain directions. I haven't noticed that on any firearms. Still, from what I've seen, the stuff is super tough. I have a Carbon-15 pistol that doesn't appear to have any of the quality problems Professional Ordnance became famous for. I'm in the process of building a 7.62X39 AR style pistol using a Tannery CMM lower and a (gasp) Hesse upper. This will be my first experince actually using anything from Hesse. I almost have to go that route as I have to stay under 50 oz limit for pistols of this type. Hey 5sub, have you seen the Raytheon Aircraft (Beech) "Premier"? A lot of the Starship technology in that aircraft as well. I quit there about a year ago to do NDT/QA audits around the country. At the time I quit, there were selling the Premier for 5.5 million, but it was costing them 6.5 million to build.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 2:06:37 PM EDT
Oh, just thought I'd add, from what I've heard, all the Professional Ordnance problems were with the metal, not the composite materials they were using....
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:43:39 PM EDT
Hi guys I own a Hesse AR15 with a carbon lower I had this weapon before I new about this site. So far I shot about 300 rounds thru it. I had two jam's. Both with a 40 rnd mag. No problem's with USGI or ORLITE mags. Have a lot of shooting to do before I'm happy. I read of other problem's with Hesse AR15,s but I have not had any problem's. It's a 16" CAR style and it is as accurate as any other brand/configeration I shot. I'm not a HESSE supporter by any means. I'm just passing along what I've seen. I have also seen some people bash ORLITE mags. I like them little better then USGI mags. Maybe I'm lucky so far but I'm still gun shy because of what I've read on this site. If you own a Dodge truck I can find people that have bad dealings. Only buy a Ford or Chevy. Some say get married others only live with her. On and on and on. Don't get me wrong Im not busting on anyone. But alot of these guy's that are bad mouthing Hesse only base their oppinions on what a few others have written. Ive seen maybe 10 different things about Hesse Ar's. And I bet there is a lot more then 10 Hesse AR's out there running round's down range. Again Im not A Hesse fan just saying what I've seen. Before you guys start bashing me I will let the site know If and when I have any problem's. Just keep one thing in mind when you write negetive thing's about products, someone else owns one also. I lost some sleep over some of the thing's I've read about Hesse AR's. Again maybe I'm lucky for once ????? thanx alot guys love the site and the info is great!
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 3:53:21 PM EDT
I wouldnt buy a hesse but everybody should realize that composites are the future, in firearms and most everything else.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 4:25:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By boeboe: Hey 5sub, have you seen the Raytheon Aircraft (Beech) "Premier"? A lot of the Starship technology in that aircraft as well. I quit there about a year ago to do NDT/QA audits around the country. At the time I quit, there were selling the Premier for 5.5 million, but it was costing them 6.5 million to build.
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$5.5M sell and costing $6.5 - a good company to quit !! I've seen one of the Premier's but that was from some distance. Raytheon (Beech) do make some good airplanes. Hold their value very well in the used market too.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:16:18 PM EDT
To All, for what it's worth. I purchased a Hesse before I read this forum. Got it in and put around 50 rounds through it before the bolt broke. Sent it back FAC and they sent me another one. On this one, it was obvious where the gas tube comes throught the lower end of the forearm and then into the receiver that it was NOT in line. Crooked as hell. Didn't even shoot that one. After 3 weeks of waiting on an Oly, they just sent me my money back. I am now the proud owner of a Bushmaster that is obviously built better and works a hell of a lot smoother than the Hesse (Vulcan). So after waiting a total of 6 months and having $600 tied up with NO gun, I put another $175 with it and got one that I like and has a lifetime warranty and good rep and not one that I hated, a one year warranty and a bad rep. True, this material is in the future but like one of you said, Vulcan had to redeem itself, if it is even possible.
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