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Posted: 3/30/2003 11:00:39 AM EDT
I'm thinking about trying a 300 Wisper upper. I'm looking for a good rifle cartridge that I could put a suppressor on later. I've heard the 300 Wisper can go out to around 250-300 yards accurately. Does anyone have any experience with this caliber and what about reloading? How does this 300 Wisper function in the AR? Help please. I need someone to discourage me before I buy another AR and my wife kicks me out of the house!!!
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Quoted: I'm thinking about trying a 300 Wisper upper. I'm looking for a good rifle cartridge that I could put a suppressor on later. I've heard the 300 Wisper can go out to around 250-300 yards accurately. Does anyone have any experience with this caliber and what about reloading? How does this 300 Wisper function in the AR? Help please. I need someone to discourage me before I buy another AR and my wife kicks me out of the house!!![hail2] I built my first 300 whisper upper (300 Fireball, actually; 300 Whisper is a trademark (?) of JD Jones) using a 16" Olympic Stainless Ultra Match barrel I bought secondhand here. All other parts were standard AR15 parts except: 1) I drilled a new gas port in the pistol position and plugged the original port in the carbine position. That gives you enough pressure to cycle heavy subsonic rounds without a suppressor. 2) I used a Fulton Armory adjustable gas tube to reduce the backpressure for lighter supersonic loads; otherways they have way too much recoil with the gas port that far back. It worked great, but it was a [b]heavy[/b] bull barrel, so I sold that upper and made a new one based on a Model 1 (believe it or not!) .750" barrel. I repeated the two steps above for that, and here is the result: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=9817[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=9818[/img] You can see the original front sight tower with no gas tube, the new gas block under the SIR handguards, and the Fulton Armory gas adjustment. This rifle functions great with 220gr subsonics and 150gr supersonics, plus it has a 1/8 twist, so it should stabilize up to 250gr bullets. As far as reloading goes, I have the Redding deluxe die set (they call it 300-221 because the original parent case is .221 Fireball). This set includes an expanding die that lets you form .300 whisper from .221 fireball. This is a time consuming process and is done in two steps. I made a few hundred cases this way, but then I found someone who was making 300 whisper cases from .223 rem. He cut me a good deal on 1k cases, and I've been using them ever since. For more info, see: [url=www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/index.html]QuarterBore's page[/url] |
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Quoted: Fizassist, Do you have a picture of the 300 fireball compared to 223? I'm wondering how closely they resemble the Grendel 7.62x36mm cartridge? Here ya go. That's a 220gr bullet. Don't know anything about the 7.62x36 . [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=9862[/img] I really haven't had a chance to test the accuracy and range yet [:(]. I just finished the rifle and have only test fired it at a 75' indoor range. It's a one-hole shooter there, though. It's hard to tell at such short range, but it looks like it can do 1 MOA. |
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Quoted: If you sight in at 100 yds you can expect a couple foot drop by 200 yds. Do you have a ballistics chart for any 300 whisper loads? All I've found is [url=http://www.ar15barrels.com/data/300-221comp.shtml]Randall Rausch's page.[/url], but I don't know what loads they are. The subsonics do appear to drop like a rock. |
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Here is another image.. [img]http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/221_to_300_big.jpg[/img] Left to Right: Remington 221 Fireball Brass Brass after 7MM taper size button Final size after 30 caliber taper size button A loaded 300/221 cartridge (220-gr bullet) A 223 Remington cartridge w/ 55gr. FMJ. From: [url]http://www.quarterbore.com/300whisper/brass.html[/url] Note, the above was done with 221 Fireball brass! I know I would make mine from 221 BUT...? |
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Quoted: Note, the above was done with 221 Fireball brass! I know I would make mine from 221 BUT...? Hi Quarterbore, I really enjoyed your page as I was looking into the 300 whisper. I've heard 2 stories on using .223 brass. First, JDJ ripped me a new one for even asking him about it. [:)]. But I've heard from two independent souces that Cor-Bon actually uses unformed .223 cases to make the brass for the loaded ammo they sell. All I know is that it has worked great for me in two different rifles. What makes you prefer the 221-formed brass? |
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I prefer the 221 as it is easier to do... You have seen the steps above which involves taking a 221 fireball case and running it through two passes in resizing dies. When you are done, I would check it's length and you may want to trim them. I am no expert on doing this with 223 brass as I have never tired to do it. Just the same, I assume you would want to first cut the brass so that you are not trying to resize an entire 223 case to 300 Whisper. Then you would need to resize. Then you would need to trim the case to the correct length. Forming 300 Whisper brass from 223 brass may (or more likley will) cause the thickness of the brass to increase in the neck region. This in turn may cause you some problems? I really think you need to get comments from someone that has done this but as long as I can buy 221 Fireball brass: [url]http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/145641[/url] ... for about $0.20/ea, it just isn't worth the effort for me! ----------------------------------------------- As for needing a new upper, I can relate! I had an Olympic Arms 300 Fireball Upper quite a few years back and I had nothing but problems with it and Olympic Arms was ZERO help. I sold everything off swearing that I will never buy another Olympic Arms product (and I haven't for about five years now). These days there are many more options to help you get these to run including Adjustable Gas tubes (which is the biggest key) plus there are quite a few gunsmiths that have been working on getting them to run! Kurt at Kurts Kustom: [url]http://ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=2&f=44[/url] Has done quite a few of these and he can make you one for less than what a real SSK 300 Whisper will cost you! Kurt can provide you the details on what will and will not work and he has played with the gas port size which is the other tricky component to making these run. As for myself, I am having Kurt build me a 10.5-inch 300/221 Fireball barrel for a POST-BAN bolt action AR-15 pistol project. For my own semi-auto AR-15/M-16 upper, I am still planning to have JD Jones build me a real 300 Whisper upper. It's not that I don't think Kurt's will run, I just WANT a 300 Whisper and anything else is still just a clone! It's like a Shelby Mustang, I can make a any 68 Mustang: [img]http://www.mustangreview.com/photogallery/photo7535/68vert_leftfront.jpg[/img] look like a '68 Shelby GT500: [img]http://www.mustangreview.com/photogallery/photo14973/68shlbygt500_lfft.jpg[/img] but it just isn't the same thing! [url]http://www.mustangreview.com/mustangphotos.htm[/url] Now if your wife is going to get mad at you, just point out how expensive an old car hobby can be! Our mustangs [url]http://www.mustangreview.com/aboutme.htm[/url](this is my website) have cost me MANY TIMES the value of my guns and I don't have either of them finished yet! This is why I don't have my SSK upper yet! Good Luck! |
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I noticed there are some 'loaded up' variants of this, running in the 2000FPS+ range for the lighter bullets... now, not being a ballistics expert, is this sufficient for AVERAGE SIZE deer? All I really have is a caliber restriction here, but I want to know if it's enough for a clean, reliable kill. Bullet selection is obviously a variable. I would be using one of the better 'hunting' bullets. |
| Thanks for the input guys! And THANKS ALOT for the pic's. This thing does look real similar to the Grendel 7.62x36 listed in a military pub. Anyone done any accuracy test out to 200 yrds? What about function? Does the standard buffer and bolt carrier situp handle the heaver subsonic load? Does anyone know someone that cuts barrels for the 300 wisper? Someone that has had some experience with them? |
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Quoted: I noticed there are some 'loaded up' variants of this, running in the 2000FPS+ range for the lighter bullets... now, not being a ballistics expert, is this sufficient for AVERAGE SIZE deer? All I really have is a caliber restriction here, but I want to know if it's enough for a clean, reliable kill. Bullet selection is obviously a variable. I would be using one of the better 'hunting' bullets. The 300 Whisper is extremely popular as a Deer Hunting Cartridge in the T/C Contender. Try a search and you will see quite a few places on the net that talk about it! Look at the Ballistics and you will see that with a 130-gr bullet that the 300 Whisper comes very close to the energy level of a 30/30 Winchester. Obviously a 30/30 is more than adequate! I am going to use my 300 Fireball AR-15 Pistol to hunt deer and if I am lucky I can tell more about that next winter? Here is one link that provides more details: [url]http://www.saubier.com/smallcaliber/whisper.html[/url] Look for the "300 Whisper" info on this page as well (it's worth the search)! [url]http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/may97bench.html[/url] |
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I'm going to buy another upper, but I'm not sure if it'll be 300W or 6MM PPC. I'm not real concerned about the subsonic aspect of the 300, honestly... though it'd be nice, the ranges I shoot at are replete with 338's and the like, or I'm shooting indoors with people using 50AE DEs. I figure you could debate accuracy of the two until you were blue in the face. Any compelling reason to take the 300 vs 6MM PPC? |
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