AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/9/2003 10:08:09 AM EDT
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There is a "gentleman" on one of the big internet auction sites selling auto sears for 19.95. Could this be BATF on a fishing trip? I don't know but I guess it's possible. Could a UPS delivery be followed a little later by another knock at the door? There is another guy on the same site selling plans to build your own Lightning Link at home. I really have no desire to turn my AR into full auto. I can burn through more than enough ammo in semi just fine. However, I do think it would be pretty cool when your out shooting with your buddies to be able to drop in a little piece of metal and run through a few mags in full auto and when your done pull out the piece of metal and return to semi. Who would know? It does seem pretty tempting. |
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I'm just playing devils advocate here. I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law. What I am saying is that the parts are out there and there are a lot of people who are unfamiliar with the laws and could very easily unknowingly purchase such a part that could put them in violation. Just beware, thats all. |
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Quoted: What I am saying is that the parts are out there and there are a lot of people who are unfamiliar with the laws and could very easily unknowingly purchase such a part that could put them in violation. Just beware, thats all. Well pleading ignorance of the law will not keep anyone from going to jail. There are illegal parts out there.There are also narcotics,con schemes,hit men,etc do an illegal convertion and you will be somebody's GF in jail! |
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I thought it was legal to buy auto shears, DIAS Lightning Links or plans. If it's legal in your state and you have the right paper work. Whats the big deal. Even if you buy them and you put them in your Parents house or friends house. Who doesn't have an AR. Or if you own a 2 story home and you keep them on the second floor and your gun on the first it is legal. Or am I wrong. I see lots of sites talking about them. I see some sites putting the directions about lightning links out there. For 19.95 I think I will buy about 10 or 20. |
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Quoted: For 19.95 I would be highly surprised if these were RDIAS. It is illegal to own an AR15 and a DIAS even if it isn,t in the gun. The guy is from the TACTICAL SOLUTION. Don't know if that's a legitimate co. or not It isn't. Its is a part that requires an illegal alteration of your lower that is a [b]FELONY[/b]! Time to end this fishing trip! [b][size=6]IBTL![/size=6][/b] |
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Transferable M16's are not 13k, but more like $7-8000. It is illegal to own the un-registered LL or RDias if you own an AR15. It is not advisable, but not illegal to own one if you do not have an AR15. If you get caught recieving one thru the mails, you are a felon. The term "constructive possession" is the term. Beleive me, they keep records to whom they sell to. Look at FAC. They had their records looked at by ATF for Makarov barrels that one was used in a crime. Also, the ones you see at $19.95 are made rather cheaply and of soft metal. It will not last long. The springs are usually bad as well. Plans for these are not illegal either. But, if they catch you with anything that could be used to make them, they will also charge you. Will the charges stick?? I would not want to find out. |
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Quoted: Transferable M16's are not 13k, but more like $7-8000. Maybe a RR non-m16, actual m16 is more than 8k but probably less than the 13k, atleast today. It is illegal to own the un-registered LL or RDias if you own an AR15. How do you use a RDIAS if you do not have a gun to put it in? You can own a RDIAS and an ar to put it in. Plans for these are not illegal either. But, if they catch you with anything that could be used to make them, they will also charge you. You mean like the assult hacksaw? [bounce] |
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There's quite a few laws like that around. It may be legal to own a supercharged engine for your car, and with cars usually you can still own the car, too. Put the engine in the car and you're breaking the law. Mill the parts yourself, and tack-weld or epoxy them to a backing, or to eachother and what do you have? Modern art? Then is it illegal? Don't play with this stuff at all ever, for those who're reading and wondering. If you're not 100% sure, don't buy it. As for whether it's a setup or not, I would not doubt it. It's quite simple to set up a storefront webpage, etc and make it very difficult indeed for even the best 'hackers' to determine whether you're gonna get busted or not. I bet big brother's watching those transactions, whether they're selling or not. Although such information could not be used in conjunction with your registered ownership (to whom such applies) without first obtaining a warrant to search for the information I would not doubt it's 'accidental' lead into an investigation of your person for ownership of illegal firearms or parts thereof. |
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step away from the crack pipe dude.... you have gotta be crazy high on drugs to want to plat that game, if you need full auto, go rent one, a lot of states allow them, and they can be rented cheap, it is not worth 10 years with bubba just to fire off a couple of mags in full auto |
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Quoted: There's quite a few laws like that around. It may be legal to own a supercharged engine for your car, and with cars usually you can still own the car, too. Put the engine in the car and you're breaking the law. Huh? Pardon the tangent here, but this analogy is seriously flawed. Are you saying supercharged engines in (presumably street) cars are illegal? Sorry, not true, not even in Kalifornia (the only time you'll see an issue with that in Kali is over emissions issues, not the supercharger [i]per se[/i]). I don't know of a single state that has outlawed the use of superchargers for street vehicles. Perhaps a better car-related analogy is the use of leaded fuel. While it is possible to buy low-lead aviation fuel at your friendly neighborhood airport, it is illegal to use it in your car. Believe me, my 455-powered '67 GTO would be much happier if I could run that instead of the oxygenated-and-nothing-more-than-91-octane crap that is sold at the pump these days. While I could probably get some AvGas, it's not worth the hassles I could face if caught using it in my car. Kind of the same with buying an auto sear or unregistered LL for your AR -- it's just not worth the headache. |
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Don't be stupid! One of my high school buddies works for BATF. He said this one is like shooting fish in a barrel. Sell the product, go to the address, make the arrest, Idiot goes to jail. It is as easy as that. While, it is still legal to own a hacksaw and a 12 gauge I don't suggest combining those either. No they are not all traps, some guys sell poorly made parts which require illegal modifications to function in full auto. I COULD go score some crack and a hooker, it might be fun for a half hour but, IT'S NOT WORTH IT! Don't be another fool who has his gun and voting rights stripped from him for life. Plus I wouldn't want to be sobody's b*tch in prison! Like the other guy suggested, go to a range that rents full auto and get your rocks off there. |
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Supercharged engines are illegal in many individual municipalities unless your car was originally available with a supercharger. The ordanances I speak of state: Any modification which affects the fuel/air pressure, mixture or ratio, or any device which influences the emmissions controls of the vehicle in any way... (goes on to say can't be put on your car). I've lived three places like this. I guess I figured it was more common. The analogy is not flawed. I'm glad you were quick to jump on me for mentioning it though - despite the fact that the analogy was correct even if there never was a law like that. I'm glad we now know what you know. Or rather don't. |
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I'd like to point out a few things. 1) I've seen the following things on Ebay in the last month: a) Lightning Link Plans, available THROUGH EMAIL, not illegal in and of themselves, as knowledge is not illegal. However, making anything based upon those plans, is. b) Military Autosears. Unlike the DIAS or RDIAS, the military autosear only fits in a RR (Registered Receiver) and will not fit in an AR-15 (or isn't supposed to). Any AR-15 Reciever so modified without registration and tax payment is illegal and possession is indeed a felony. 2) That being said, I have to ask, How can an RDIAS be illegal if the "R" in RDIAS stands for "Registered?" Or does the R stand for something else? If a DIAS is Registered and the tax paid, then it is a TRANSFERABLE RDIAS, and thus, legal. Also expensive. 3) I have never seen an Actual DIAS sold on Ebay, nor have I seen one advertised there. Of course, I'm not omniscient so I could have missed it. 4) The Lightning Link, if manufactured today, is patently illegal according to the NFA. In contrast, the lightning links (Called Auto-Connectors then) made by SWD and others BEFORE 1986, which are properly registered, taxes paid, etc. are TRANSFERABLE MACHINE GUNS from a legal standpoint, and as such, are legal. They, too, are expensive. But they exist. 5) While the temptation to cut a few pieces of metal up and drop them into your AR may be tempting, the amount of headaches you can acquire for such a simple, seemingly innocuous act are such that most sane men would cringe and go "Just shoot me now." Especially those of us who value our freedoms and our rights. 6) As someone has already said, going through the expense of purchasing one of the legal full-auto options is, in the long run, more cost effective, both financially and socially (in terms of criminal liability) than cheaply manufacturing an illegal copy and running the risk of being prosecuted by a zealous BATF(E). 7) Why pay 19.99 for plans that can be found already on the internet for FREE? If you want to give money away, mail me 19.99 and I'll send you a URL...the information is ALREADY IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN...why throw your money away? And that's all I have to say about that. Panz [bounce] |
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IMHO is is improbable (although not impossible) that it is a BATF troll. Perhaps worse is that the seller may be a misguided "hey I can make some money at this" guy. So the BATF just lets him sell them for a few months, buys 1-2 themselves and then busts him. They seize the sales and shipping records and soon "Ding-dong...its BATF calling". Then it will be "Yew look jes like a hog"! This route is MUCH easier for the BATF - much less time & work. Don't do it. |
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This is about the 9 millionth thread where somebody is asking about doing something they already think is illegal. Makes you wonder if some of them are ATF trolls, doesn't it? If you have to ask if it's illegal.... Seriously, folks, this isn't a wannabe board. Take it somewhere else. You're using bandwidth that's better put to another use. |
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For myself, I do not want and do not need full auto. It's not because I've never fired one.... OK, I've never fired a gas or recoil operated full auto. Hydraulic rotary count? GAU-2 (Gun, Automatic Unit-2). Anyhow, had to get that out. To the issue: PLEASE if any of you out there in internet land have any illusions of 'gung-ho full-auto' please go somewhere you can do it legally. If you LOOK around you'll find it's cheaper than owning your own if you only do it once or twice. And if you do it and get hooked - there's STILL legit ways of going about owning full autos. Consult with your local FFL about class iii. Talk to the BATF! They're not the enemy, they really aren't. They're the enemy's faithful pooch that WILL BITE YOU IN THE BUTT if you screw around with this stuff. OK. Sorry about that but I feel better. Now if one of you goes out and gets yourself 15-25 I won't feel bad. |
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Quoted: Supercharged engines are illegal in many individual municipalities unless your car was originally available with a supercharger. The ordanances I speak of state: Any modification which affects the fuel/air pressure, mixture or ratio, or any device which influences the emmissions controls of the vehicle in any way... (goes on to say can't be put on your car). I've lived three places like this. I guess I figured it was more common. The analogy is not flawed. I'm glad you were quick to jump on me for mentioning it though - despite the fact that the analogy was correct even if there never was a law like that. I'm glad we now know what you know. Or rather don't. Easy there... I said that I've never heard of any *state* that has outlawed them. Municipal code is an entirely different matter, and you didn't indicate that was what you were referring to. Since the context of the original discussion was related to federal laws, I presumed that was the level you were making an analogy at. |
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