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Posted: 1/29/2003 6:48:22 AM EDT
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Good Morning Guys, I was watching Platoon last night on DVD. I have a question and I am sure this has been asked 100 times before. Is the film an accurate portrayl of Vietnam and the way things were? I am only 26 years old so obviously I wouldn't know if it was or not. My father was in the Navy in Vietnam on the USS O'Brien DD-725, so he couldn't really say for the ground combat if it was accurate or not. Thanks to all who served in each and ever conflict we have ever been in. You guys are true heroes!! |
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I too am 26 but... My father was an Officer in the Infantry, 2 tours etc. He pretty much said that "We Were Soldiers" was the most accurate portrayl of Vietnam he had ever seen. He said Platoon was a close second but some of the stuff was a bit un-realistic like any Hollywood item. Hope that helps. scoke. |
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I am only 35, but I figured that We Were Soldiers was more accurate than Platoon. Considering the fact that the leader who was actually there (forget his name) was the consultant, it makes sense. As a side note, does anyone have info as to the opinions of the survivors of the Black Hawk Down incident about the movie and book of that name. I just watched it on DVD again last night and I can't stop. Good movie... |
| This is a little off topic, but anybody else notice the part in "We Were Soldiers" where they start calling in air support? Before the radioman has even finished getting the coordinates out of his mouth, bombs are hitting the ground! Those Air Force guys sure were mind readers. :) It was a good movie, but some little things like that kept me from enjoying it as much as I could have. |
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Quoted: I am only 35, but I figured that We Were Soldiers was more accurate than Platoon. Considering the fact that the leader who was actually there (forget his name) was the consultant, it makes sense.quote] The leader who was actually there, Harold Moore, was not only the consultant because he was there but also because he was the author of the book that the movie was based on. |
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Regarding Black Hawk Down. I know a former Army Doctor who was there in Somolia when the incident took place. He gives both the book and the movie very high marks for accuracy. One interesting comment he made was that he felt that the Skinny body count given in the book and at the end of the movie was under-estimated. He told me how the Little Birds mowed down the Skinnys all night. They went out expended all their ammo, came back and hot re-fueled, re-armed and went right back out, all night non-stop. |
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Quoted: He told me how the Little Birds mowed down the Skinnys all night. They went out expended all their ammo, came back and hot re-fueled, re-armed and went right back out, all night non-stop. IIRC, Col. Tom Matthews said in the DVD commentary that the Little Birds made on average about 50-60 gunruns each! They were re-armed several times, and at one point, the ground-crew refused to rearm the birds unless the pilots ate something. So the pilots sat in the birds and ate some food while they were re-armed. |
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Platoon was a movie plain and simple. In my time, I never saw a village pillaged, civilians shot, and little girls raped. Not by us anyway. Platoon was as far from my real as The Green Beret was. No glamour or vicious criminal acts crossed my path. Saw one hell of alot of professional soldiers. I'm dissappointed you would ask. |
| Didn't mean to start anything with this post, just wanted to ask if it was accurate, not in girls being raped or anything like that, like I said I was not there, so I had a question about it and I asked it....sorry if I disappointted you, and I never said that the soldiers were anything but professional, and just to let you know, my father is a Vietnam Vet, and I hold him and ALL VETERANS of any conflict in the HIGHEST REGARDS!!! |
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Quoted: Didn't mean to start anything with this post, just wanted to ask if it was accurate, not in girls being raped or anything like that, like I said I was not there, so I had a question about it and I asked it....sorry if I disappointted you, and I never said that the soldiers were anything but professional, and just to let you know, my father is a Vietnam Vet, and I hold him and ALL VETERANS of any conflict in the HIGHEST REGARDS!!! It's no problem asking, dude. That's what the forums are for. You just got to understand Vietnam vets have taken a lot of guff from a lot of people. They have been wrongly demonized (especially by movies like Platoon) and persecuted by the media and by several other groups. This can get some guys very upset and understandably so. It just makes things worse when younger generations believe these movies. I am not saying things like that don't happen in war. They do. However, it was not just in Vietnam. It has happened in WW II and every other war. Things like that are bound to happen. They just were not as rampant as the movies tend to make them. In any group you get bad apples, especially in groups like infantry where the cross section of people are so large. Every group of people run the spectrum. It is just to bad the media likes to focus on the bad seeds and thus cause the majority of the public to believe it was true of our troops as a whole. It definitely was not and probably wouldn't come close to the level of corruption movies and journalists (and, I'm sorry to say this, dirty rotten hippies who didn't have a real clue) make it out to be. |
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I think it's a valid question Tom Jefferson. I, too, am too young to have served then but it took me several years of reading and researching to find that many of events (and sterotypes) portrayed in "Platoon" did not happen on any "regular" basis. Much like the traditional show-down in the dusty street in Western movies. It happened once (Okay Corral) but Hollywood made it happen every Sat. afternoon. They did the same with MaiLai (Crap, can't think how it's spelled now). So a youngster can learn from what the popular, leftist, media puts out, or he can ask people who were there. And yes, it may ruffle a few feathers, but at least he is trying to learn the TRUTH about what happened. And he's trying to learn it from the RIGHT people. BTW, thanks for your service. I appreciate it. |
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Take the patrolling, ambushes and such from Platoon, and you have an average day for an infantryman in Nam. Go here do this and go somewhere the next day. Skip the pillaging, raping, and murder of innocents. We Nam vets have been vistimized for years as psycho war mongering killers by Hollywood and the media. The so called "sniper" incidents in the DC area were early on purported to be by a Nam vet!! Jeez!! My Lai by the way. Lt. Calley and fellow "soldiers". Most of our cruelties were things like faking a full C-rations can and throwing it into a flooded rice paddy surrounded by kids. The one kid wins the mud wrestling contest and finds out it is empty with a rock for ballast. Throwing Hershey's Extreme Hot Weather candy bars at kids from a moving APC was another item. No one got seriously hurt from our pranks. |
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I watched the extras on my Black Hawk Down DVD and I was under the impression that some of the solders had a hand in consulting for the movie...did anyone else come away with that impression. Don't worry Autofire, your question was a good one and one I've asked my father (Dec 68 - Jan 70) after every Vietnam movie I've ever seen. If you are like me you are very curious about that period of history. I watch & read everything I can about the Vietnam conflict and like AR’s I can never seem to get enough. I’m reading Blood on the Risers right now and it’s an awesome portrayal of the fighting that took place, check it out. |
| Platoon is an accurate portrayl of the Vietnam war. I know a doctor who was stationed in Vietnam for 3 years, a pilot who was shot down, who was in vietnam for 2 years, and two guys who were in special forces in Vietnam. Platoon is based on Oliver Stone's own experience in the war, so that might give it some authority over other movies. We Were Soldiers, based on We Were Soldiers Once...and Young, the book, and is also Im sure an accurate portrayal of Vietnam, but the movie is different than the book was. Two of the people I mentioned above both saw villages burnt. The doctor I mentioned above got a substantial ammount of his patients from one soldier shooting their superior just because they didnt like eachother. I realize this stuff wasnt any every day occurance, but it happened. I dont think Platoon gives Vietnam vets a bad reputation. There were lots of people in that movie, and only about 3 of them were what people today might call incorrect in how they did their job. |
| I salute ALL of you veterans (especially combat veterans). You did a great service to our country -- you served to protect our freedoms and/or see that others could enjoy the same freedoms as we have. It may not always turn out well (VN, Somalia), but who else in the world gives a damn about freedom and stopping injustices but the U.S. We aren't perfect, but we do CARE. And our fighting men and women turn those feelings of care into action. They deserve the utmost respect and gratitude for that. If a war was "immoral" then it should only be the politicians who are held accountable for that. Unfortunately, too many Vietnam vets were held accountable for something they should not have been. I reserve a place of utmost DISRESPECT for those peaceniks, Hollywood stars, etc who try undermine the respect that our soldiers deserve. They disgust me. And hopefully there are enough people with the same attitude to keep the same thing from happening in Iraq that happened in Vietnam... |
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Quoted: I watched the extras on my Black Hawk Down DVD and I was under the impression that some of the solders had a hand in consulting for the movie...did anyone else come away with that impression. Those actors playing Rangers spent one week at Ft. Benning with the real Army Rangers, those portraying Delta went to Ft. Bragg and trained with 5th SFG. Helicopter pilots went to Ft Campbell and the 160th SOAR. In addition Ex-SEAL Harry Humphries adn his GSGI company was involved. Col. Tom Matthews, Col. Lee Van Arsdale, Col. Danny McKnight and MSG Matt Eversmann was available on set. In addition a company of Rangers plus 8 helos from the 160th SOAR was in Marocco during filming With regards to the original question... Obviously I don't "know", but I fell that We were soldiers are probably the most accurate. Although that movie shows one battle were-as Platoon transpires over a whole year....And as JohnDP siad it was based on Oliver Stone's experience may not be typical.... |
| My father, a Scout Dog handler said that Platoon was by far the most accurate depiction of his VietNam expierince. I think that I can say every VNV had/has had their own expierence. I'm sure that Col. Harold Moore's account of that particular battle is as accurate as the censors would allow. p.s. thank you vets |
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You hit a nerve on this one! Oliver Stone was a SP4 in B/3/22 25ID. His CO was Robert Hemphill. I know Bob as well as about 100 B/2/22 vets who would lynch Oliver Stone if he ever came to one of our reunions! Bob wrote a book “PLATOON Bravo Company”, which contains a Forward by Joseph L. Galloway (“We Were Soldiers Once… and Young”). His book was less of a rebuttal of Stone’s movie, and more of a tribute to fine soldiers of B/3/22. Bob shared with me some of his correspondence with Oliver Stone. Stone claimed that everything in his movie was based on his overall experience in Viet Nam. He never claimed that any of it took place during his short time in B/3/22. When Bob pressed him on certain issues, the correspondence ended! Platoon was a collection of barracks rumors made “fact” by celluloid. Any resemblance to truth was purely coincidental! If any of you are interested, please visit our 22nd Infantry Regiment Society web site http://www.22ndinfantry.org. The Books & PX link will take you to Bob’s book as well as others. 3/22 was deactivated after Viet Nam. 1/22, 4ID Ft Hood TX, has packed to deploy. 2/22, 10ID Mountain Ft Drum NY, has recently returned from their second deployment to Bosnia. These fine soldiers past and present continue to build on our un-official motto of “Deeds Not Words” Our official motto "Regulars by God" was given to the Regiment in the War of 1812. |
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Like many of you, the Vietnam war is a topic of great interest to me. Having done a lot of reading, one thing is very clear: there is no single "Vietnam experience" shared by all. There were so many groups doing so many different things, with different chains of command and different SOPs, that experiences varied tremendously from one person to the next. Also, the nature of the war evolved significantly throughout the 15 or so years we were involved. Stone's viewpoint as expressed in Platoon may well be completely valid, though he undoubtedly compressed the experiences of his entire tour into a week-or-two-long timeline that the movie covers. But that doesn't mean that his experiences reflect those of soldiers 1 or 2 miles away, not to mention those in other zones of the country. No doubt, too, that his experiences are colored by his feelings about the war, and his movie was interpreted through that lens. It's too easy to try to package a single set of experiences and say "that's what it was like", but everyone's experiences were different. Which is why war movies have so much potential; they can tell many different stories from many different perspectives all about the same war. -Troy |
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Autofire, My original post on this thread was not meant as a slam. If it was you would know it. LOL Truth is books don't get published about what the majority experienced. It would have no plot for the war didn't have a plot. What does get published are the storylines like Platoon and this I have an issue with. A true story from an era does not reflect the era anymore than drawing the conclusion that all WWII sargents were like John Wayne. Platoon as a producton went to great lengths to add realism even to the point of starving the actors to get the far away look. My issue is with the content and how it reflects on the veterans of the era. I had hoped the general public after all these years was finally starting to understand that these movies were not reflective of a people or era. Keep asking but anyone that tells you a movie was what it was like, wasn't there. Movies and We Were Soldiers was one of the best, can depict a number of events historically acurately even bring memories back to those that were there, Platoon and Tigerland do that to me, but it is not what it was like. That God willing you will never know. |
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In my opinion, Platoon was a breakthrough war movie for it's time. It ended the clean, PG, glamorized movies of the past. The bar's been raised even further since Platoon, with great war films such as Saving Private Ryan and Black Hawk Down. If you have the Platoon DVD, then check out the audio commentary by Cpt.Dale Dye, who was the technical advisor. I actually prefer to listen to that than the movie's audio. He differenciates his experiences from Oliver Stones, and points out that the rape scene and smokin' dope in the field was going to far, but it was Oliver's call. It's a great commentary. On the History Channel, there was an episode of History Vs. Hollywood that was about Black Hawk Down. They had soldiers that were there give their opinions and insights about the movie. Keep an eye out for it. A couple of last things. THANK YOU to all the veterans! It's a shame that the government and country you fought for wants to ban and restrict you from owning the rifles and features you want. The US miiitary's always been made up of outstanding individuals doing extraordinary things. Unfortunately those great deeds are usually tarnished and undermined by spineless politicians and diplomats. And how can the President go to sleep at night knowing that there are service men that need to be on Welfare or assistance to take care of their families? Sorry about running on. Edited to add: I strongly second everything you said Red_Label. |
| I am not a veteran, so every year on November 11th, I make a point of thanking every Veteran I know, for their service to our Nation. Some of these men and women paid a terrible price for people like me enjoying freedom back home. It's always a sobering experience to hear the stories these men tell. God bless every one! |
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I was in the Corps, but I have never been in combat. It is hard for me to call myself a veteran, because I dont want to have people thinking that I risked my life for America. I somehow feel like it unfairly takes away from those among us who have been in combat, & those that payed the ultimat price for our great nations freedom. I know that might seam stupid to some, but it's just the way I feel.( it's sort of a St.Crispins Day thing) Iwas but a little boy during the sixties, & I remember seeing the news on tv each night telling how many of oue men had been KIA, & WIA. I was scared even as a boy that it might last untill I was old enough to be drafted. I was born in 61, & even a little kid undestands some of this stuff. To me the war was something I saw on tv, that at the time had no effect on me. At that age the reality & the horror of war just doesnt register. I remember trading toys, & swapping stuff for a covetted pow bracellet like it was a mood ring, or some other non undestandable fad. I'm not trying to make anyone madd. Alot of us just never heard the truth. I think that is all Autofire was wanting to hear. We have all believed the Hollyweed crap that weve seen at one time, or another in our lives, & when no one tells us the truth all we have is guesses bassed on lie, & missinformation. I feel very proud of all of Americas veterans, & I stand in awe of your courage in the face of danger. Taken to inforce American policy & human rights, even if it means the paying of blood for it. What a selfless, & loving thing for a young man to do for others. Jesus said no greater love has a man, than he lay down his life for another. Thank you all. [center][USA][/center] |
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Quoted: As a side note, does anyone have info as to the opinions of the survivors of the Black Hawk Down incident about the movie and book of that name. I just watched it on DVD again last night and I can't stop. Good movie... Buddy of mine here at Bragg got his combat patch on the rescue column. He said the movie was as close as Hollywierd could get, but that the rescue column (which he was on) took more casualties (both wounded and dead) than the Rangers/Delta contingent. I have seen the pictures that he took the day after- his APC looked like swiss cheese. Scary stuff. Don Out |
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Buddy of mine here at Bragg got his combat patch on the rescue column. He said the movie was as close as Hollywierd could get... Nice post DonC! Close as it gets, is very best way to describe a movie. Interesting note on the rescue column. I wondered about that veiwing the movie. It really didn't touch on that at all. |
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Hey TJ, He went through stuff I hope to never see. That said, I volunteered to go on the current deployment so that one of our kids with a wife and children would not have to go. This is my 3rd time in, and I'm 36 y/o. I know what I signed up for. This is not about some patch, or college money. Even as a rigger this will probably be nasty due to gas and bio stuff. To get this tied to the original thread, I got an AAM (Army Achievement Medal) for doing my job- I stayed at work until ordered to go home & sleep for 9 days straight in order to get a load out to Afghanistan. The Army standards have lowered enough to where I got a medal for this. You old shool guys know about this. Never got one in 4 years with 2/505 PIR for doing what needed to be done. Never asked for it either. Don Out Don Out |
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