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Posted: 12/4/2002 5:52:52 PM EDT
First of all, this is a legitimate question so please dont lock/delete it.

What if someone shortened the trigger pull to just 3-4 mm and then puruposely machined some parts to induce a trigger slap effect that forced the trigger back to the idle position so that by simply applying a steady force on the trigger it would cycle at full auto speeds while you technically pull the trigger every time. Would this be legal?
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 6:38:55 PM EDT
either i didnt explain this very well or everyones scared of the words 'full-auto' in the same sentence as 'legal'
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 7:40:59 PM EDT
I really dont know much about how the law reads or works. However I do know that I dont particularly see much value in doing this and finding out that the loophole is actually a noose.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 7:43:28 PM EDT
Federal court is a pretty scary place, I'd imagine. You go first.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 8:05:59 PM EDT
A registered M-16 is $6K. Legal defense, fines and 15 years in the hoo hoo are considerably more expensive.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 8:10:00 PM EDT
You have answered your own question. If you are applying a steady force to the trigger, you are firing more than one round with one pull of the trigger. That's a machine gun. Unless it was manufactured before May 1986 AND is properly registered, it is illegal. Please grab your ankles and say hello to your new roomate Bubba!
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 8:37:38 PM EDT
IBTL
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 8:43:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2002 9:27:28 PM EDT by StarAtari]
Originally Posted By RayDBonz: You have answered your own question. If you are applying a steady force to the trigger, you are firing more than one round with one pull of the trigger. That's a machine gun. Unless it was manufactured before May 1986 AND is properly registered, it is illegal. Please grab your ankles and say hello to your new roomate Bubba!
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but you pull the trigger for each shot. It's a new motion for each bullet. one trigger pull = one shot. [b]I never said I was planning on doing it[/b], but I was wondering if there was any type of legislation against it.
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 8:56:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/4/2002 8:59:48 PM EDT by Dave_A]
He's effectively asking 'What if I could make such a hair trigger that my gun would bump-fire from a normal, aimed fire position?'... What matters, of course, is if the BATF agrees with you, AND that they don't change their mind (like they did with gatling guns. The original ruling on the subject said all non-gas-operated gatling guns (even motorized ones) were considered semi-auto. Then they changed it so that only hand-cranked ones were not MGs). Other thoughts I've heard include 'since it says 'fires more than one shot with a single function of the trigger', why not make a gun that took 2 functions of the trigger (2 pulls) to fire at all?' and such... Of course it's all speculation, since actually DOING it so the BATF could classify it could easily land your butt in the can...
Link Posted: 12/4/2002 9:04:21 PM EDT
Of course, if you tinker long enough, you might end up with a run-away rifle, that doesn't stop until it's out of ammo - no matter where it's pointing. How much would all new trigger parts cost? I'd abandon the project.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 12:06:32 AM EDT
As I understand it,(not an attourny at law nor clainm to be one) Full auto is classified as... when one pull of the trigger (one motion)equates in more than one round being fired, then the weapon is a full auto weapon. Be this as it may, and what little I know about judicail law, the courts would see this as an discretionary decision, either way a choice they will have to weigh. One, the weapon doesn't contain the legitimate parts or materials that encompass a full auto ar-15 (to be specific). Rather the rifle has been altered in such a manner that enables it to function, or allows it to operate in a full automatic fashion. Be this the decison that would have to be rendered, the trends of the court, in my nopinion, would select the weapon as an full auto/illegal classification. Meaning that although the weapon is not comprised of the parts tht would normally allow, under legal circumstances, the rifle to operate in an full auto fashion, the weapon has been altered in such a manner that allows such functions. You'd probably sink fast in that tub, in other words. Course it is an interesting thought. But would it be safe?
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 1:03:18 AM EDT
Ask the ATF agent that brags on taking a regular AR-15, oiling up the bolt and making it slam fire and getting you convicted on machinegun charges by a retired anti-gun, Carter appointee fed judge. Anyone of us could be convicted under the right circumstances. Ask the survivors of Mt Carmel in Waco. There was zero evidence they had converted AR's in the ashes of the complex. They all got 10 to 20 years after the judge set the jury decision aside. Rare in judicial cases, I've heard. If you pull the trigger for every round fired, it would be a single shot per pull of the trigger. Bump firing is single pulls of the trigger, just very fast. I agree with your concept, but doubt ATf would like it much. Seems that "letter rulings" carry more weight than case law these days. Maybe it's the intimidation factor.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 4:17:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/5/2002 4:24:37 AM EDT by Sharkman629]
Just a couple of questions for you guys reading this forum. Wouldn't one of those "Hell-Fire" contraptions that were so popular a few years ago solve this guys dilemma. Are "Hell-Fires" or any other type of lever/spring gadget when mounted, fulfilling the definition of bump firing? Are these things still BATF approved. By the way, I always did hate the damn things and thought it only helped wasting ammo since you couldn't properly grip the weapon with your strong hand. Just a question since I haven't heard much about them lately. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 4:40:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sharkman629: Are "Hell-Fires" or any other type of lever/spring gadget when mounted, fulfilling the definition of bump firing? Are these things still BATF approved.
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I still see similar products advertised in SGN.
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 5:36:56 AM EDT
in jail during the Xmas season, do you get better food?
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 7:47:52 AM EDT
Why go thru. all the hassles? Just bump fire the damn thing, and it's 100% legal.[:D]
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 8:34:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AR15forfun: Federal court is a pretty scary place, I'd imagine. You go first.
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I agree, why even talk about it in a public forum?
Link Posted: 12/5/2002 8:12:51 PM EDT
Why not call your local BATF office and ask them. And if you're worried about them knowing who you are, call from a pay phone. From my experience w/ Feds, as long as you're just curious about the law, and tell them you're calling b/c you don't want to violate a law, they're more than happy to give you advice.
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 7:29:34 PM EDT
Listen up if your at a public range and it goes rat a tat tat and the leo's are around you might have a lot of esplaining to do.Not worth playing around.Also what if you defended yourself with it by some unlucky chance and they want that weapon?
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 7:52:17 PM EDT
Haha chickenshit people. Listen, if you think you got a good idea, document it properly, and send it off with a letter to the ATF firearms technology branch. You can not get in trouble for designing something on paper.
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 7:57:13 PM EDT
What about making it fire one (1) shot with the press of the trigger, and fire one shot with the release of the trigger?
Link Posted: 12/7/2002 8:33:48 PM EDT
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