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Posted: 11/18/2002 3:57:12 PM EDT
I would like to put some kind of optical sight on my AR-15. I tried a regular scope and didn't like it. Too slow to use.

I've seen pictures of some kind of optical device on the Green Berets M-16s in Afghanistan.

Does anyone know what they are, and if they are available to the public?

Does anyone have experience with them? If so, did you like them?

If they are available, can you buy them at reasonable price? i.e. $500 or less? (I can't afford the $3,000 night vision stuff.)

Thanks in advance!

The Borg
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 7:17:43 PM EDT
Well, I kinda feel bad that nobody has replied to your post so I'll help you bump it. I don't know enough about AR's yet to offer definitive advice but from what I've read on this site, many favor the Aimpoint ML series and the Trijicon ACOGs. I will probably look into one of these two when I'm ready to get some optics. If you're looking for a site that sells, try the following:

www.swfa.com

One last thing, you might take a look in the Optics, Mounts and Sights forum for more info or post this message there for assistance.

Drivie
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 7:50:01 PM EDT
Locutus:

Try Midway.com. They have lots of scopes broken down by gun. Neat site.

"Borg, sounds Swedish!"
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 8:12:59 PM EDT
I'm in the same position as you. I got my AR 3 weeks ago and plan on optics for christmas. I've decided to get a Trijicon compact ACOG. It can be used at distance, up to 300 yards, and for CQB. If I just want CQB I'll go for the Aimpoint, it is also cheaper.
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 9:27:58 PM EDT
Go for the ACOG TA01. Great optics. Pricy, but worth the money. Sometimes you can get a good deal on ebay.
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 9:38:33 PM EDT
Guys, if you want a really nice red dot sight
that is a great bargain,then get a Millett SP-2.
I got mine from impact gun's website. I wanted a red dot for my M4-gery, and didnt want to spend $300 for an Aimpoint.

The Millett SP-2 is fogproof, shockproof, has fully coated optics, and is parallax-free.
That is the most important selling point.
The Millett is the only bargain red dot that is parallax free just like the Aimpoint. The sight comes from the factory with rings, instructions, and battery. It is a breeze to zero. I was dead on after just a few shots.
My buddy ordered one after shooting my AR to mount on his new FAL. It is priced dirt cheap at
$79.00 plus shipping. If you try it, you will be very glad you did. Here is the link to where I bought mine.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/millett_sp2_red_dot.html

Link Posted: 11/18/2002 9:56:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 10:03:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
ARs in Afghanistan are likely wearing one of two optics.

The M68 optic, which is AimPoint CompM, is one of them. That is a one-generation-old model. The current model is the CompM2 (or the slightly cheaper CompML2; the difference is that the M model's lowest two brightness settings are dim enough for night vision compatibility, and the L models are not):

www.aimpoint.com/products/compm2/compm2.jpg


The other optic is the Eotech:

www.swfa.com/riflescopes/eotech/durability.gif

www.wholesalehunter.com/product/eotech/eotedes/eotepic/reticle2.gif

-Troy




I've seen quite a few ACOG's.....it is the desert after all.
Link Posted: 11/18/2002 11:31:36 PM EDT
To my knowledge, which is limited compared to some, but there are FAR more Aimpoints in serivce than any other M16/M4 optic. Lots of ACOGs and a lot of EoTech's as well. But Aimpoints are in abundance.

Stop looking on the news and magazines to decide what you want though. One person already suggested a TAO1, and the TAO1nsn is on a lot of military rifles, but it is a SLOW optic to use when compared to an ACOG with BAC or a dot optic like the Aimpoint. Too many people see them on the news and military photos, decide the look cool (and they do!) and figure it must be an AWESOME optic (and it is!). But it is not at all awesome as a CQB/fast paced optic.

Go to the optics forum here, read up on all of the above listed optics, and decide which is best for you and your shooting needs. It may or not be the one you see on CNN tonight.
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 3:43:07 AM EDT
I know you are concentrating on CQB optics but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I have a IOR Valdada 4x24 illuminated scope with the draganov BDC and rangefinder. I LOVE IT! I think it is a better buy and just as good as the Triji's in a simialr optic and cheaper ($350)!

SorryOciffer
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 6:59:54 AM EDT
I would highly recommend the TA01 ACOG ,excellent sight very versatile and its not too bad in CQB if you have both eyes open. Would not recommend the TA01NSN as a smaller amount of the reticle is illuminated in low light levels and the range is only marked out to 600M where the TA01 is marked out to 800M.

As much as I like the ACOG my next purchase will definitely be one of the Trijicon red dot Reflex sights
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 11:47:31 AM EDT
Thanks very much to everyone who responded. I guess that I have a loat of reading to do, and a decision to make.

That TA01 and the EOTech sure sound intriguing, but I think I need to study the subject just a bit more. (actually, the compact ACOG and the Aimpoint seem pretty interesting too. I wish that I could afford to try them all!)

The Borg
Link Posted: 11/19/2002 12:14:03 PM EDT
You not only want to try them all you MUST try them all. Go to a gunshow and look through and handle all of them before you decide.

The optic you describe is a scope that is good for distance work but still works for CQB and is not slow.

Your only real choice is a BAC ACOG (Bindon Aiming Concept) Look at the following scopes

TA11
TA31
2x and 3x Compact ACOGS

If you look in the optics section of this site you will find LOTS of discussion on the differences and merits of these optical sights.

Other sights mentioned are the TA01 and TA01NSN. These lack the BAC feature and the backup iron sights included with the NSN scope are not very usefull or fast. You dont want these.

Aimpoint or Eotech are excellent choices for unmagnified optics. Just dont try the 2x Aimpoint as it is worse than useless.

The other scopes mentioned are just regular scopes but lower powered for better speed (like the IOR M2) You will only be marginally more satisfied with these than your previous scope.

Once you find out what BAC is and experience it yourself for the first time you will be hooked forever.

It is kind of like looking into those Holusions that make a 3D picture appear if you focus your eyes deeper than the surface of the paper. Nomatter how much we try to explain it untill you see it for yourself you just wont get it.
Link Posted: 11/20/2002 12:44:41 PM EDT

Just dont try the 2x Aimpoint as it is worse than useless.
Why? After choking on the price of the ACOGs I thought that at about half the price a 2x Comp C would be an alternative. It would still have some magnification for small/precise shots and should be a bit better than the BAC up close. What makes that combination so useless, when the 1x Aimpoint or the 2x ACOG are so great?
Link Posted: 11/21/2002 3:26:12 PM EDT
Haven't personally tried one, but the Trilux scopes seem like a good bet. Amersurp.net for $189 used.
Link Posted: 11/23/2002 12:40:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2002 1:00:58 PM EDT by Delta_3_63]
Greetings Locutus, The first thing to consider is what you want the optic for. EOTech (Holosight), Aimpoint (CompM/M68), and Trijicon (Reflex) are all used for fast target acquisition at short range. They are 'both eyes open' sights. For 100-300 meters you should consider the ACOGs. They are available in various magnifications with several reticle styles so you'll have to do a little research. Out past 300 meters is still scope territory. Hope this helps and welcome to the collective, 'I am Dyslexia of borg. Futility is resistant. Your ass will be laminated.'
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