User Panel
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What is this "current information"? An employee that had Troys full support is no longer fully supported, endorsed and employed? Why the change of heart? In the OP, Steve Troy stated that he would not "throw him to the wolves" in regard to Monroe. What has changed? Troy products have spoken for themselves but that is not what this discussion is about. This controversy arose from the leader of the Troy companies speaking for himself and his companies regarding a personnel decision. There are many competitors of Troy that create and market quality products, as consumers we have the freedom to take into account everything about a company when we choose where our dollars are spent. To repeat, what is this "current information"? Perhaps Steve Troy should respond, to try to put an end on this thread that he began. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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It's never too late to make sure that people have the current information. Happy New Year to you. What is this "current information"? An employee that had Troys full support is no longer fully supported, endorsed and employed? Why the change of heart? In the OP, Steve Troy stated that he would not "throw him to the wolves" in regard to Monroe. What has changed? Troy products have spoken for themselves but that is not what this discussion is about. This controversy arose from the leader of the Troy companies speaking for himself and his companies regarding a personnel decision. There are many competitors of Troy that create and market quality products, as consumers we have the freedom to take into account everything about a company when we choose where our dollars are spent. To repeat, what is this "current information"? Perhaps Steve Troy should respond, to try to put an end on this thread that he began. I agree. We need Steve Troy himself to make a response. |
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Honestly, I'm surprised to see Troy still here on this forum.
The will NEVER get another dime from me. They made their bed, they can lie in it. |
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Hello, all - Just want to make sure that you are all aware that neither Dale Monroe nor Jody Weis are affiliated with any TROY Division in any capacity and they have not been since this story broke in August 2013. Any reference you see to continued employment is completely untrue. View Quote There is something fishy here. Why in God's name did Troy wait so long to come forth with the fact that Monroe is no longer with he company and hasn't been since August 2013? Any normal company would have come forth immediately to try to prevent consumer outrage and boycotts. Who's in charge of their public and media relations, Piers Morgan? He seems like the type that Steve Troy would hire. For some reason, Monroe's stint with Troy does not appear on his resumè. He lists the period from December 2012 until now as being the lead firearms instructor with an outfit called Watch House International out of Los Angeles. From January 2013 until now he is listed as being a captain in the California State Military Reserve. And finally, from January 2014 until now as the CFO of Monroe & Monroe Inc., whatever that is. Monroe's entire resume can be viewed at www.linkedin.com/pub/dale-monroe/4b/184/8a4 Why would Troy wait 18 months in the face of bad publicity to release the fact that Monroe was no longer with them? Why would Monroe not acknowledge Troy as being a former employer? Something's not right. And, yes, I'm a conspracy theorist! |
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To add to that, August 26, 2013 is when this thread started, with they statement that Monroe would 'not be thrown under the bus', and among a lot of bad press. The current story is that Monroe has not been with Troy, since August of 2013, so that leaves 5 days, from when this thread was started, to his latest departure. Now, if my business were getting the publicity Troy was in mid 2013 for this, and I have put my foot down, that he would not be thrown under the bus, but he chose to leave (Or I chose to throw him under the bus) in those next 5 days, I'd have let the world know, to try and turn the tide of public opinion. Things just don't add up.
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Dale Monroe's resumè says that:
Monroe & Monroe Inc is a consulting firm in the areas of workplace violence prevention, vulnerability and security assessments, firearms safety and instruction, and the all important "Home Offense Program", which provides homeowners the knowledge, skills, and positive attitude to prevent any intruder from making them victims in their own homes. "Your Safety is Our Business." It's too bad that Vicki Weaver didn't have training from Monroe & Monroe Inc. If she had, perhaps she could have prevented Lon Horiuchi and his right-hand-man, Dale Monroe, from making her a victim in her own home. How dare that murderous SOB put that line in the description of his business. |
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I have been a lurker here for a while but this will be my first post. Hate that I had to be pointed to this thread and then read through it all to become situationally aware. I currently have three personal AR builds and two client builds on the workbench now. I also have two L1a1, one FN G1, two 10/22 and two 1911's in progress Had to purchase eight AR receivers since Christmas to keep up with workflow. I try to build high class custom 3 Gun, target, varmint and defensive AR 15's. Sad thing is up until now, I have used Troy freefloat forearms, sights, bolt releases and ambidextrious safeties on most AR rifles. This information saddens me as it came after ordering three Troy forearms today. Unless a.satisfactory explanation is offered will be my last. Glad I did not buy the other parts specified for the jobs. Will be looking elsewhere for the time.being. To hire a man who seems "proud" to have participated in the wanton shooting and murder of innocent women, children and dogs. Shoot my dog and see what happens to you. No AR or Battle Rifle will put you far enough out of range. Sticking by your employees is an honerable concept if you have hired honerable people. There are too many other good products out there to choose from. I have several personal rifles with Troy equipment already in my personal inventory and will soon be shopping to replace it. Minimum I will chuck it in my lathe and milling machine and make it unrecognizeable as Troy product. I have several builds happening at any one time. Its the power purchasers that will twist the company inside out, especially in a softening market where a lot of aftermarket parts companies are not going to survive. So now to stop ranting and switch to some vendor sites to see what I can source to replace the Troy products on my bench and rifles. My clients will want what they see on my rifles and Troy is coming off. What is scrap aluminum bringing?
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I have been a lurker here for a while but this will be my first post. Hate that I had to be pointed to this thread and then read through it all to become situationally aware. I currently have three personal AR builds and two client builds on the workbench now. I also have two L1a1, one FN G1, two 10/22 and two 1911's in progress Had to purchase eight AR receivers since Christmas to keep up with workflow. I try to build high class custom 3 Gun, target, varmint and defensive AR 15's. Sad thing is up until now, I have used Troy freefloat forearms, sights, bolt releases and ambidextrious safeties on most AR rifles. This information saddens me as it came after ordering three Troy forearms today. Unless a.satisfactory explanation is offered will be my last. Glad I did not buy the other parts specified for the jobs. Will be looking elsewhere for the time.being. To hire a man who seems "proud" to have participated in the wanton shooting and murder of innocent women, children and dogs. Shoot my dog and see what happens to you. No AR or Battle Rifle will put you far enough out of range. Sticking by your employees is an honerable concept if you have hired honerable people. There are too many other good products out there to choose from. I have several personal rifles with Troy equipment already in my personal inventory and will soon be shopping to replace it. Minimum I will chuck it in my lathe and milling machine and make it unrecognizeable as Troy product. I have several builds happening at any one time. Its the power purchasers that will twist the company inside out, especially in a softening market where a lot of aftermarket parts companies are not going to survive. So now to stop ranting and switch to some vendor sites to see what I can source to replace the Troy products on my bench and rifles. My clients will want what they see on my rifles and Troy is coming off. What is scrap aluminum bringing? View Quote Bro, welcome to the board. I just had to paragraph your post before you got a shit ton of TL;DR's. Oh yea, and Fuck Troy. |
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There is something fishy here. Why in God's name did Troy wait so long to come forth with the fact that Monroe is no longer with he company and hasn't been since August 2013? Any normal company would have come forth immediately to try to prevent consumer outrage and boycotts. Who's in charge of their public and media relations, Piers Morgan? He seems like the type that Steve Troy would hire. For some reason, Monroe's stint with Troy does not appear on his resumè. He lists the period from December 2012 until now as being the lead firearms instructor with an outfit called Watch House International out of Los Angeles. From January 2013 until now he is listed as being a captain in the California State Military Reserve. And finally, from January 2014 until now as the CFO of Monroe & Monroe Inc., whatever that is. Monroe's entire resume can be viewed at www.linkedin.com/pub/dale-monroe/4b/184/8a4 Why would Troy wait 18 months in the face of bad publicity to release the fact that Monroe was no longer with them? Why would Monroe not acknowledge Troy as being a former employer? Something's not right. And, yes, I'm a conspracy theorist! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Hello, all - Just want to make sure that you are all aware that neither Dale Monroe nor Jody Weis are affiliated with any TROY Division in any capacity and they have not been since this story broke in August 2013. Any reference you see to continued employment is completely untrue. There is something fishy here. Why in God's name did Troy wait so long to come forth with the fact that Monroe is no longer with he company and hasn't been since August 2013? Any normal company would have come forth immediately to try to prevent consumer outrage and boycotts. Who's in charge of their public and media relations, Piers Morgan? He seems like the type that Steve Troy would hire. For some reason, Monroe's stint with Troy does not appear on his resumè. He lists the period from December 2012 until now as being the lead firearms instructor with an outfit called Watch House International out of Los Angeles. From January 2013 until now he is listed as being a captain in the California State Military Reserve. And finally, from January 2014 until now as the CFO of Monroe & Monroe Inc., whatever that is. Monroe's entire resume can be viewed at www.linkedin.com/pub/dale-monroe/4b/184/8a4 Why would Troy wait 18 months in the face of bad publicity to release the fact that Monroe was no longer with them? Why would Monroe not acknowledge Troy as being a former employer? Something's not right. And, yes, I'm a conspracy theorist! Possibly because all the "bad press" had very little to do with their bottom line, and possibly because some people don't bully easily and get a certain amount of entertainment from people trying. Why wouldn't he put it on his resume? Hahaha, really? |
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Possibly because all the "bad press" had very little to do with their bottom line, and possibly because some people don't bully easily and get a certain amount of entertainment from people trying. Why wouldn't he put it on his resume? Hahaha, really? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Hello, all - Just want to make sure that you are all aware that neither Dale Monroe nor Jody Weis are affiliated with any TROY Division in any capacity and they have not been since this story broke in August 2013. Any reference you see to continued employment is completely untrue. There is something fishy here. Why in God's name did Troy wait so long to come forth with the fact that Monroe is no longer with he company and hasn't been since August 2013? Any normal company would have come forth immediately to try to prevent consumer outrage and boycotts. Who's in charge of their public and media relations, Piers Morgan? He seems like the type that Steve Troy would hire. For some reason, Monroe's stint with Troy does not appear on his resumè. He lists the period from December 2012 until now as being the lead firearms instructor with an outfit called Watch House International out of Los Angeles. From January 2013 until now he is listed as being a captain in the California State Military Reserve. And finally, from January 2014 until now as the CFO of Monroe & Monroe Inc., whatever that is. Monroe's entire resume can be viewed at www.linkedin.com/pub/dale-monroe/4b/184/8a4 Why would Troy wait 18 months in the face of bad publicity to release the fact that Monroe was no longer with them? Why would Monroe not acknowledge Troy as being a former employer? Something's not right. And, yes, I'm a conspracy theorist! Possibly because all the "bad press" had very little to do with their bottom line, and possibly because some people don't bully easily and get a certain amount of entertainment from people trying. Why wouldn't he put it on his resume? Hahaha, really? Anyone with business acumen knows that you need to initiate damage control ASAP in the face of bad publicity. I don't have access to Troy's books, but I'm certain this has affected their bottom line. They have lost several thousand dollars in sales from myself and my friends since this started and a local gun store no longer carries Troy products because we informed them of the situation. Now, granted, several thousand dollars isn't much to a company like Troy but, if only half of the people on this forum and other forums who said they would boycott Troy actually did it, their bottom line HAS to have been affected. |
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My first post as a new user- I was trying to do some research on Troy's M7A1 PDW Stock and while trying to compare with the NEA Canadian stock, I found a lot of anti-Troy sentiment. Further research into it reveals the Weis and Monroe issues. I read Steve's post above, but I am really torn about sending my money to a company who's values do not represent my own. The list is growing larger every month of people that I will do business with because of their staunch support of 2A; CMC, Ares Armor, Tactical Machining...etc. I am looking to do several builds in various calibers, side chargers, larger bore gas guns, etc & I will be spending a rather large amount of $$$ over the course of the next 2 years, Tax stamps, SBR builds, etc...and Thank you for shedding light on this before I too spent my hard-earned money on all the parts that I need with this company. I would feel sick to my stomach afterwards when I found out later. Looks like it'll be the NEA stock through Brownell's or Midway. Thanks guys!
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I hear the ATF director who pushed the M855 ban, and that "all 5.56 is a threat to law enforcement" will be stepping down. Will you be adding him to payroll as well?
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I hear the ATF director who pushed the M855 ban, and that "all 5.56 is a threat to law enforcement" will be stepping down. Will you be adding him to payroll as well? View Quote Obama will be out of a job soon also. Perhaps Troy could make him their spokesman as he seems to have a lot more to say than Steve does. Or maybe Steve could use some of his "pull" with the government and get the DC sniper out on parole. I'm sure that he would make a good marksmanship instructor, especially when it comes to target selection. |
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Free bump to let you guys know some of us have not forgotten about this.
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Just found this:
http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=8860 Sorry if it has been listed before (I didn't see it looking thru this thread). I had forgotten about this and was fixin' to order some more mags. Won't happen now. |
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LOL, Hadn't heard about this until just a little while ago when someone made a comment about Troy products on another forum. It was just an odd comment, I googled it and was surprised at what turned up! While I don't have much in the way of Troy products, a rear sight that was stock on my M&P, and I'm assuming a quad rail on my M&P 300 upper, I had recently purchased a single point sling mount that was made by Troy, bought it off of Ruger's website. Needless to see, won't be buying any other Troy products. Had I not had a 20% new owner coupon for the Ruger store, I wouldn't have bought that sling mount and bought the MI version instead. I had recently been in the market for a quad rail and that, fortunately, had been an MI product.
To me, gun companies should be on the up and up, views and all, what I googled, and that of the OP here, it's just baffling. |
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LOL, Hadn't heard about this until just a little while ago when someone made a comment about Troy products on another forum. It was just an odd comment, I googled it and was surprised at what turned up! While I don't have much in the way of Troy products, a rear sight that was stock on my M&P, and I'm assuming a quad rail on my M&P 300 upper, I had recently purchased a single point sling mount that was made by Troy, bought it off of Ruger's website. Needless to see, won't be buying any other Troy products. Had I not had a 20% new owner coupon for the Ruger store, I wouldn't have bought that sling mount and bought the MI version instead. I had recently been in the market for a quad rail and that, fortunately, had been an MI product. To me, gun companies should be on the up and up, views and all, what I googled, and that of the OP here, it's just baffling. View Quote If you really want some interesting Troy trivia, look up what happened between Troy and Samson Manufacturing. That should surprise you further. |
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TROY INDUSTRIES needs to come clean and make it known BEFORE any customer purchases anything that key parts will not be available for repalcement.
FOR INSTANCE: 45deg offset sight mounting bases. Who would guess after they plunked down $200+ for sights the crummy mounting base on the sights is NOT AVAILABLE FOR SALE? (put otherwise, If it breaks junk 'em!) As said elsewhere, I have three sets of your regular folding sights and you have pocketed a lot of my money. But NO MORE your customer support is lousy |
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It appears that TROY INDUSTRIES was hunkered down in the C&C bunker for over a year (August-13 through December-14). Would have liked to have been a mouse in the corner there. TROY must have expected a Chris Kyle, hero's welcome to give them a 'shot in the arm', but comparing killing radical insurgents to murdering Vicki Weaver gave them a bullet in the foot.
That aside. A PERSONAL response to TROY INDUSTRIES: You have been "Growing and Improving" for, what is it now- over nine months? [.08 posts/day] And you still cannot provide parts to a repeat customer? As mentioned elsewhere for public consumption but brought up here for TROYS personal consumption; I specifically mention your new 45-degree offset sight sets and your lack of concern for support. The sights are made, as you know, in three piece sets. The sight/base, the picatinny mount bracket and a single mounting screw. MSRP- $239.00 In the sample I purchased (1) One mount bracket had the countersink hole off center so it would not tighten down the base without 'tweeking' it. [IMHO- two smaller screws would have been better] (2) The mount bracket is milled so tightly it will not fit on picatinny rails through the prescribed tolerance [SLR adjustable gas block, for instance] A call to your customer assistance informed me "the parts are made on a one-to-one basis and there are no parts for sale". That is the same response I received about a year ago when I tried to buy a new leaf to replace the DOA leaf. I ordered the 45-degree offsets as the regular folding sets (have three) were so rigid. MISTAKE- The newer offset sights strike me as having a flimsy mounting system and anyone who really uses them will surely damage the picatinny mount system; necessitating a [guess what?] replacement mount. SOMETHING YOU WILL NOT HAVE AVAILABLE! When mine break, they go in the junk box and I replace them with something like a DEUCK. TROY is pathetic |
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Maybe if Ted Cruz wins in 2016 the head of the BATFE will be looking to Troy for a new job.
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Fuck everyone who says "fuck Troy". View Quote Because all these "f" comments are constructive..... I have purchased 2 Troy products. 1 was purchased prior to reading about the Ruby Ridge incident and the employment of Dale Monroe, and 1 after. I will purchase no more. I do not agree with the political actions of the company and the direction its customer service has gone. I do not agree with the actions the company took against Samson Manufacturing in an attempt to bully or make an example out of them, just because they were bitter about a situation. As customer service seems to be going downhill, this presents another issue to the leadership at Troy industries. I think Troy has dug themselves into a difficult hole to get out of, but through ignorance and quality products, it will be difficult to truly take away its market power by mere "f"troy comments and doesn't win any more credibility back with the- "f" the "f troy guys" - comments either. Does Troy make quality parts? Yes. Does Troy have questionable leadership practices? Yes Does Troy have questionable morals? Yes Will I own any more Troy products? No Will I promote Troy products? No Will I give my opinion of Troy to customers? Yes Does this matter to Troy? No. |
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Because all these "f" comments are constructive..... I have purchased 2 Troy products. 1 was purchased prior to reading about the Ruby Ridge incident and the employment of Dale Monroe, and 1 after. I will purchase no more. I do not agree with the political actions of the company and the direction its customer service has gone. I do not agree with the actions the company took against Samson Manufacturing in an attempt to bully or make an example out of them, just because they were bitter about a situation. As customer service seems to be going downhill, this presents another issue to the leadership at Troy industries. I think Troy has dug themselves into a difficult hole to get out of, but through ignorance and quality products, it will be difficult to truly take away its market power by mere "f"troy comments and doesn't win any more credibility back with the- "f" the "f troy guys" - comments either. Does Troy make quality parts? Yes. Does Troy have questionable leadership practices? Yes Does Troy have questionable morals? Yes Will I own any more Troy products? No Will I promote Troy products? No Will I give my opinion of Troy to customers? Yes Does this matter to Troy? No. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Fuck everyone who says "fuck Troy". Because all these "f" comments are constructive..... I have purchased 2 Troy products. 1 was purchased prior to reading about the Ruby Ridge incident and the employment of Dale Monroe, and 1 after. I will purchase no more. I do not agree with the political actions of the company and the direction its customer service has gone. I do not agree with the actions the company took against Samson Manufacturing in an attempt to bully or make an example out of them, just because they were bitter about a situation. As customer service seems to be going downhill, this presents another issue to the leadership at Troy industries. I think Troy has dug themselves into a difficult hole to get out of, but through ignorance and quality products, it will be difficult to truly take away its market power by mere "f"troy comments and doesn't win any more credibility back with the- "f" the "f troy guys" - comments either. Does Troy make quality parts? Yes. Does Troy have questionable leadership practices? Yes Does Troy have questionable morals? Yes Will I own any more Troy products? No Will I promote Troy products? No Will I give my opinion of Troy to customers? Yes Does this matter to Troy? No. Eloquently said, and sums up my own feelings quite well. I really like Troy's products, but I cannot in good conscience buyor recommend them while they support someone like Dale Monroe. |
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Troy is still relevant?
Fuck Steve Troy and his stolen IP company. How's that? |
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If you really want some interesting Troy trivia, look up what happened between Troy and Samson Manufacturing. That should surprise you further. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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LOL, Hadn't heard about this until just a little while ago when someone made a comment about Troy products on another forum. It was just an odd comment, I googled it and was surprised at what turned up! While I don't have much in the way of Troy products, a rear sight that was stock on my M&P, and I'm assuming a quad rail on my M&P 300 upper, I had recently purchased a single point sling mount that was made by Troy, bought it off of Ruger's website. Needless to see, won't be buying any other Troy products. Had I not had a 20% new owner coupon for the Ruger store, I wouldn't have bought that sling mount and bought the MI version instead. I had recently been in the market for a quad rail and that, fortunately, had been an MI product. To me, gun companies should be on the up and up, views and all, what I googled, and that of the OP here, it's just baffling. If you really want some interesting Troy trivia, look up what happened between Troy and Samson Manufacturing. That should surprise you further. You mean where the judge ordered Samson to pay Troy ~$500,000 in damages? Troy fucked up hiring who they did, but Troy is the only reason Samson is the in the gun industry. NVM I forgot that Dick Swan of ARMS bankrolled Samson after Troy dumped them. That cunt's best days were worse that what Troy did. Just ask Mark Larue |
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You mean where the judge ordered Samson to pay Troy ~$500,000 in damages? Troy fucked up hiring who they did, but Troy is the only reason Samson is the in the gun industry. NVM I forgot that Dick Swan of ARMS bankrolled Samson after Troy dumped them. That cunt's best days were worse that what Troy did. Just ask Mark Larue View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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LOL, Hadn't heard about this until just a little while ago when someone made a comment about Troy products on another forum. It was just an odd comment, I googled it and was surprised at what turned up! While I don't have much in the way of Troy products, a rear sight that was stock on my M&P, and I'm assuming a quad rail on my M&P 300 upper, I had recently purchased a single point sling mount that was made by Troy, bought it off of Ruger's website. Needless to see, won't be buying any other Troy products. Had I not had a 20% new owner coupon for the Ruger store, I wouldn't have bought that sling mount and bought the MI version instead. I had recently been in the market for a quad rail and that, fortunately, had been an MI product. To me, gun companies should be on the up and up, views and all, what I googled, and that of the OP here, it's just baffling. If you really want some interesting Troy trivia, look up what happened between Troy and Samson Manufacturing. That should surprise you further. You mean where the judge ordered Samson to pay Troy ~$500,000 in damages? Troy fucked up hiring who they did, but Troy is the only reason Samson is the in the gun industry. NVM I forgot that Dick Swan of ARMS bankrolled Samson after Troy dumped them. That cunt's best days were worse that what Troy did. Just ask Mark Larue Actually the settlement was for $500 Kazillion. Samson won on appeal and had to write a check for a little under a Million (like 950,000.00 plus if I remember correctly). Dick Swan? You want to bring him up now? Samson is THRIVING after writing that reduced check and Troy is still fighting for civilian sales and Scott is livin' da life. Oops. Once a Douche ALWAYS a Douche. Look up and read the history of ALL of the lawsuits. And yes, Scott Samson is a friend of mine. If it wasn't for Steve Troy I would have never met Scott. Thanks asshole! |
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If filing for bankruptcy is "thriving" then you have very different concept of success.
Samson moves to NH and declares bankruptcy |
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If filing for bankruptcy is "thriving" then you have very different concept of success. Samson moves to NH and declares bankruptcy View Quote Successful business people declare Bankruptcy all the time. Trump 2016! |
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I appreciate having the opportunity to speak to members of this forum. Troy Asymmetric, part of the “World of Troy,” is a business entity with a director who until this past week, held exclusive hiring authority. I am its owner, it bears my name and as we have witnessed in recent days, effects public opinion of all Troy divisions. Earlier this week, I terminated an instructor who did not support the Second Amendment as ardently as I and members of the community do. Troy Asymmetric provides training to military and law enforcement personnel. If you spend 5 seconds on the website you’ll see a graphical depiction of a bomb explosion - the primary focus of the company. Take a moment to read the course list and you’ll note a common theme: training pertaining to explosions, bomb threats, post-blast crime scenes, incident command and crisis management. Instructors’ primary areas of expertise lie in the “bomb world,” with EOD experience, critical incident response, and tactical decision making. Some posters on the forum have said we only train “Jack Booted Thugs” and there is a secret agenda. These same posters conveniently ignore Troy Prepared: www.troyprepared.com. Troy Asymmetric to this date has offered no firearms training for Gov’t and LE, but in comparison, Troy Prepared has always offered firearms training to qualified civilians. From a factual, non-emotional context, it is impossible to draw the conclusion that we somehow do not support the Second Amendment and are only training “secret army”. On August 22, 1992, Dale was an HRT Operator tasked to a mission in which he found himself facing armed adversaries. His thoughts were not only on the situation at hand, but the tragic death of a child and a U.S. Marshal. During this type of confrontation when people die, you don’t have the ability to pick sides, they are drawn before you arrive. Dale did what he was trained to do as a sniper / observer. He was fortunate not to have to take a life at this engagement. Special Agent Horiuchi made the regrettable shot, a mistake for which he will never be forgiven. Of the FBI Agents assigned to the Ruby Ridge tragedy, Dale has been one of the most outspoken. He has delivered dozens of presentations to more than 1000 civilians titled “Mistakes and Lessons of Ruby Ridge”. I weighed carefully the decision whether or not to retain Dale and could find no ethical or moral reason to remove him. Dale has not committed a criminal act, he answered all questions honestly, he did not cover anything up and he did not shoot anyone at Ruby Ridge. Dale was asked to join TA for his critical incident management expertise. Dale was never slated by TA for firearms instruction. We all know from our biggest failures come the greatest lessons in life. Providing training that is relevant with experienced, qualified instructors can prevent a tragedy like Ruby Ridge. Dale will be able to deliver this powerful message and lessons learned in crisis management and incident command. I am driven and passionate about bringing effective change through pertinent training and speakers that have lived through these nightmares. Many times I have seen posts in forums that state “if you weren’t there then SDASTFU”, with that same school of thought, there is no one better than Dale to speak about tragedies like Ruby Ridge. I have been a longtime and outspoken supporter of the Second Amendment. I always choose to do what’s right, even if my stance goes against others opinion. I will not throw this man to the wolves as he has demonstrated throughout his life high integrity and honor. I know most of those who would disagree are using this forum to voice your anger towards the United States Government. In some cases that anger is justified. The Ruby Ridge tragedy and the loss of life there make no bigger example of abuse of power and Government gone wrong. However, I disagree with your personal attacks on my family and company as we are not the Government and we are not training “Jack Booted Thugs”. I am a patriot and I swore to uphold and defend the Constitution of The United States, all of it. Those who have taken that same oath recognize the importance of keeping it. Thank you. -Steve Troy View Quote BS excuses. People ask why I won't be a member on this board. Simple. Ar15 should have cut ties with you the second they found out about this. They, along with a lot of other companies have shown through action that they care about money more than gun rights. Mistakes learned. Give me a fucking break. Do those movies stakes leaned fix bullet holes and bring back the dead? Absolutely disgusting. You should he ostracized from the gun community. Period. You are the farthest thing from a patriot. It's an insult that you even have the guts to say that. Why don't you try telling that to the remaining family members and see how they react. |
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BS excuses. People ask why I won't be a member on this board. Simple. Ar15 should have cut ties with you the second they found out about this. They, along with a lot of other companies have shown through action that they care about money more than gun rights. Mistakes learned. Give me a fucking break. Do those movies stakes leaned fix bullet holes and bring back the dead? Absolutely disgusting. You should he ostracized from the gun community. Period. You are the farthest thing from a patriot. It's an insult that you even have the guts to say that. Why don't you try telling that to the remaining family members and see how they react. View Quote While I absolutely agree with your standpoint on Troy and Patriotism, I do feel there is more tact involved with the AR15 staff in allowing Troy to continue to be a contributing member to this community. Troy provides fund to the site and AR15 puts those funds to use while keeping threads such as this active and allowing people to make their own choices about their products and company standpoints. IF Arfcom made sure that the catered to every single person's likes, interests, opinions, and agendas, they would have a laundry list of problem to correct and would easily double site staff with CoC violations sky-rocketing. It would be a more condensed version of what the United States has become now, censoring everyone so as not to offend someone else, but then having a select few that can speak out with their own opinions without any fear of repercussions because they are under an umbrella of protection. There are certain features of this site that are sponsored by Troy that showcase troy's products, but also MANY MANY other manufacturers. I choose to take advantage of this free service and still go out and purchase from other manufacturers that do not have questionable management or moral standpoints. Im also do not think that AR15 is worried about losing the membership of one person due to the fact that they maintain troy as an industry partner. The site staff could have easily made this a paying members only thread which would maintain a disguise for troy to a certain extent, but they have not. it is open for you and I to see and participate in to express our feelings toward the company. As I posted above this matters very little to Troy due to the fact that their prior success was built on quality parts and a history of good customer service. Sadly, and I am only speaking from readings and have no direct experience, the latter seems to have become a major cause for concern on the customer's side of things. The fact remains that troy provides quality parts to customers and current success is based on ignorance and personal preferences. How many people do you think on here posted "F Troy, I'll never buy anything ever again!" to jump on the hate bandwagon and ended up adding some Troy products to their shopping carts and bought them? I'm sure there are more than a few. As I stated in an earlier post, I Have purchased 2 Troy products. 1 Prior to learning the company's hiring practices and defenses of the Ruby Ridge participant and 1 after. I am currently looking for an alternative to the latter purchase and no longer own the first one. Does this make the parts' quality less? No. They are fine made parts and are very cost effective for what I purchased them for. However, I do not support troy to my customers. I inform them of the quality of the parts and of the cost effectiveness of them, and then I explain the actions of the company and that If they want that product then they should probably shop elsewhere. If this loses customers, then Oh well. I dont want to make a million dollars. I want to support a lifestyle that I love and share it with others. But I cannot and will not tell people what they can and cannot believe. By suggesting that AR15 staff remove and Ban Troy, you are stripping away valuable information to the general public that may be ignorant, not stupid, to the history that is building around Troy and digging its hole. Its not through angry F Troy comments, and certainly not through "this is why I won't Join ARFcom" comments that the battle is won. It is through allowing people to make their own decisions and form their own opinions based on the facts that you can provide them, which is exactly what AR15 has presented us. Troy made a statement, people responded, more people that didnt know about it read about it, more people got angry, more skeletons came out of the closet for troy, more public outcry came forth, more questionable choices made by Troy Industries, more outcry and expression, and we are were we are now. It doesnt matter to Troy what you or me think. They have proven that over and over. All that said, I do not know any of the Site Staff personally and do not know if there are any personal relationships there that may completely undermine my theories behind keeping Troy around, but that is a whole different can of worms in itself. Please dont think I am attacking, because I absolutely agree with what you feel about Troy; I just disagree with your point on the site. I'm sure whatever site you ARE a member of has had a few questionable relationships in the past and may very well be maintaining one or two now. |
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While I absolutely agree with your standpoint on Troy and Patriotism, I do feel there is more tact involved with the AR15 staff in allowing Troy to continue to be a contributing member to this community. Troy provides fund to the site and AR15 puts those funds to use while keeping threads such as this active and allowing people to make their own choices about their products and company standpoints. IF Arfcom made sure that the catered to every single person's likes, interests, opinions, and agendas, they would have a laundry list of problem to correct and would easily double site staff with CoC violations sky-rocketing. It would be a more condensed version of what the United States has become now, censoring everyone so as not to offend someone else, but then having a select few that can speak out with their own opinions without any fear of repercussions because they are under an umbrella of protection. There are certain features of this site that are sponsored by Troy that showcase troy's products, but also MANY MANY other manufacturers. I choose to take advantage of this free service and still go out and purchase from other manufacturers that do not have questionable management or moral standpoints. Im also do not think that AR15 is worried about losing the membership of one person due to the fact that they maintain troy as an industry partner. The site staff could have easily made this a paying members only thread which would maintain a disguise for troy to a certain extent, but they have not. it is open for you and I to see and participate in to express our feelings toward the company. As I posted above this matters very little to Troy due to the fact that their prior success was built on quality parts and a history of good customer service. Sadly, and I am only speaking from readings and have no direct experience, the latter seems to have become a major cause for concern on the customer's side of things. The fact remains that troy provides quality parts to customers and current success is based on ignorance and personal preferences. How many people do you think on here posted "F Troy, I'll never buy anything ever again!" to jump on the hate bandwagon and ended up adding some Troy products to their shopping carts and bought them? I'm sure there are more than a few. As I stated in an earlier post, I Have purchased 2 Troy products. 1 Prior to learning the company's hiring practices and defenses of the Ruby Ridge participant and 1 after. I am currently looking for an alternative to the latter purchase and no longer own the first one. Does this make the parts' quality less? No. They are fine made parts and are very cost effective for what I purchased them for. However, I do not support troy to my customers. I inform them of the quality of the parts and of the cost effectiveness of them, and then I explain the actions of the company and that If they want that product then they should probably shop elsewhere. If this loses customers, then Oh well. I dont want to make a million dollars. I want to support a lifestyle that I love and share it with others. But I cannot and will not tell people what they can and cannot believe. By suggesting that AR15 staff remove and Ban Troy, you are stripping away valuable information to the general public that may be ignorant, not stupid, to the history that is building around Troy and digging its hole. Its not through angry F Troy comments, and certainly not through "this is why I won't Join ARFcom" comments that the battle is won. It is through allowing people to make their own decisions and form their own opinions based on the facts that you can provide them, which is exactly what AR15 has presented us. Troy made a statement, people responded, more people that didnt know about it read about it, more people got angry, more skeletons came out of the closet for troy, more public outcry came forth, more questionable choices made by Troy Industries, more outcry and expression, and we are were we are now. It doesnt matter to Troy what you or me think. They have proven that over and over. All that said, I do not know any of the Site Staff personally and do not know if there are any personal relationships there that may completely undermine my theories behind keeping Troy around, but that is a whole different can of worms in itself. Please dont think I am attacking, because I absolutely agree with what you feel about Troy; I just disagree with your point on the site. I'm sure whatever site you ARE a member of has had a few questionable relationships in the past and may very well be maintaining one or two now. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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BS excuses. People ask why I won't be a member on this board. Simple. Ar15 should have cut ties with you the second they found out about this. They, along with a lot of other companies have shown through action that they care about money more than gun rights. Mistakes learned. Give me a fucking break. Do those movies stakes leaned fix bullet holes and bring back the dead? Absolutely disgusting. You should he ostracized from the gun community. Period. You are the farthest thing from a patriot. It's an insult that you even have the guts to say that. Why don't you try telling that to the remaining family members and see how they react. While I absolutely agree with your standpoint on Troy and Patriotism, I do feel there is more tact involved with the AR15 staff in allowing Troy to continue to be a contributing member to this community. Troy provides fund to the site and AR15 puts those funds to use while keeping threads such as this active and allowing people to make their own choices about their products and company standpoints. IF Arfcom made sure that the catered to every single person's likes, interests, opinions, and agendas, they would have a laundry list of problem to correct and would easily double site staff with CoC violations sky-rocketing. It would be a more condensed version of what the United States has become now, censoring everyone so as not to offend someone else, but then having a select few that can speak out with their own opinions without any fear of repercussions because they are under an umbrella of protection. There are certain features of this site that are sponsored by Troy that showcase troy's products, but also MANY MANY other manufacturers. I choose to take advantage of this free service and still go out and purchase from other manufacturers that do not have questionable management or moral standpoints. Im also do not think that AR15 is worried about losing the membership of one person due to the fact that they maintain troy as an industry partner. The site staff could have easily made this a paying members only thread which would maintain a disguise for troy to a certain extent, but they have not. it is open for you and I to see and participate in to express our feelings toward the company. As I posted above this matters very little to Troy due to the fact that their prior success was built on quality parts and a history of good customer service. Sadly, and I am only speaking from readings and have no direct experience, the latter seems to have become a major cause for concern on the customer's side of things. The fact remains that troy provides quality parts to customers and current success is based on ignorance and personal preferences. How many people do you think on here posted "F Troy, I'll never buy anything ever again!" to jump on the hate bandwagon and ended up adding some Troy products to their shopping carts and bought them? I'm sure there are more than a few. As I stated in an earlier post, I Have purchased 2 Troy products. 1 Prior to learning the company's hiring practices and defenses of the Ruby Ridge participant and 1 after. I am currently looking for an alternative to the latter purchase and no longer own the first one. Does this make the parts' quality less? No. They are fine made parts and are very cost effective for what I purchased them for. However, I do not support troy to my customers. I inform them of the quality of the parts and of the cost effectiveness of them, and then I explain the actions of the company and that If they want that product then they should probably shop elsewhere. If this loses customers, then Oh well. I dont want to make a million dollars. I want to support a lifestyle that I love and share it with others. But I cannot and will not tell people what they can and cannot believe. By suggesting that AR15 staff remove and Ban Troy, you are stripping away valuable information to the general public that may be ignorant, not stupid, to the history that is building around Troy and digging its hole. Its not through angry F Troy comments, and certainly not through "this is why I won't Join ARFcom" comments that the battle is won. It is through allowing people to make their own decisions and form their own opinions based on the facts that you can provide them, which is exactly what AR15 has presented us. Troy made a statement, people responded, more people that didnt know about it read about it, more people got angry, more skeletons came out of the closet for troy, more public outcry came forth, more questionable choices made by Troy Industries, more outcry and expression, and we are were we are now. It doesnt matter to Troy what you or me think. They have proven that over and over. All that said, I do not know any of the Site Staff personally and do not know if there are any personal relationships there that may completely undermine my theories behind keeping Troy around, but that is a whole different can of worms in itself. Please dont think I am attacking, because I absolutely agree with what you feel about Troy; I just disagree with your point on the site. I'm sure whatever site you ARE a member of has had a few questionable relationships in the past and may very well be maintaining one or two now. Really? Nice speech. What if a web site took money from a company that hired a guy that killed your wife, son and dog would you still feel that that company has something to bring to the table and a valuable asset? The gun community/industry doesn't need Troy or his wares, and quite frankly we are better off without him. There are too many solid companies to deal with that are of equal or better quality and cheaper without the attitude and the history of Troy. The Avilas are here to make money and I do NOT fault them for keeping Troy as an Industry Partner. On the other hand, choose wisely with your wallet regardless of where Steve Troy spends his advertising dollars. I have either sold or given away every Troy product I have ever gotten in trade (I've never purchased a Troy product) and I will continue to steer my friends and family away from his products. That's JMO and YMMV. |
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Really? Nice speech. What if a web site took money from a company that hired a guy that killed your wife, son and dog would you still feel that that company has something to bring to the table and a valuable asset? Exactly what this situation IS.... But Shouldnt your bitterness be directed at the Site AS WELL AS the company? The gun community/industry doesn't need Troy or his wares, and quite frankly we are better off without him. I absolutely agree, but as you know, we can't just blink our eyes and make it all go away. There are too many solid companies to deal with that are of equal or better quality and cheaper without the attitude and the history of Troy. True, but you are out of line and frankly wrong if you dont admit that Troy products are, or at least, were quality products. Leaving attitudes out of the discussion The Avilas are here to make money and I do NOT fault them for keeping Troy as an Industry Partner. Correct, which I list MY reasons to blieve they are still here above in my "speech" On the other hand, choose wisely with your wallet regardless of where Steve Troy spends his advertising dollars. No where did I say I will continue to purchase Troy products and have no intention of doing so. I have either sold or given away every Troy product I have ever gotten in trade (I've never purchased a Troy product) and I will continue to steer my friends and family away from his products. Good on you, and I dont disagree with this standpoint except that my customers have to decide for themselves based on facts. I refuse to tell someone how they WILL spend their money with my business, but I WILL refuse business if they want those products. also said above in "speech" That's JMO and YMMV. View Quote EDIT ABOVE^^ So, what's your point of being sarcastic with your "nice speech" comment? And what is the point of your first statement about a Web site accepting money from a company...? Thats exactly what this situation is.... How does that strengthen whatever argument you make since you also go on to say that you dont Blame the Avilas for keeping them around?? I never said I condoned troy for anything they have done in the past or will do in the future no doubt. I responded to a comment that pointed a finger at the AR15 staff decisions. As I said as well I am looking to replace the one troy product i DO own now, and I also stated that I inform my customers of the FACTS involved with Troy. No where did I say that I support Troy, but I also will not make false statements such as "troy products are garbage" Not saying you did. So, Im not sure if you read the entire response or just a portion that may have not sat well with you, but I seem to be in agreeance with everything you said, but I will not FORCE my opinion upon any of my customers or Friends. But that seems to be the only area in which you and I disagree. Will I spend any more of my Hard earned money with Troy? No sir, and as said above, again, I will inform my customers that if they DO in fact want Troy products, that I am not the person to sell them and they will need to go elsewhere. I dont support Troy's standpoints, actions, or management decisions. I do think Troy makes good products, but that doesn't mean I will buy them or encourage others. I have made it quite clear to the contrary actually. Respectfully, |
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What targets do you guys use to zero your sights? I can't seem to hit the broad side of a barn with mine...
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EDIT ABOVE^^ So, what's your point of being sarcastic with your "nice speech" comment? And what is the point of your first statement about a Web site accepting money from a company...? Thats exactly what this situation is.... How does that strengthen whatever argument you make since you also go on to say that you dont Blame the Avilas for keeping them around?? I never said I condoned troy for anything they have done in the past or will do in the future no doubt. I responded to a comment that pointed a finger at the AR15 staff decisions. As I said as well I am looking to replace the one troy product i DO own now, and I also stated that I inform my customers of the FACTS involved with Troy. No where did I say that I support Troy, but I also will not make false statements such as "troy products are garbage" Not saying you did. So, Im not sure if you read the entire response or just a portion that may have not sat well with you, but I seem to be in agreeance with everything you said, but I will not FORCE my opinion upon any of my customers or Friends. But that seems to be the only area in which you and I disagree. Will I spend any more of my Hard earned money with Troy? No sir, and as said above, again, I will inform my customers that if they DO in fact want Troy products, that I am not the person to sell them and they will need to go elsewhere. I dont support Troy's standpoints, actions, or management decisions. I do think Troy makes good products, but that doesn't mean I will buy them or encourage others. I have made it quite clear to the contrary actually. Respectfully, View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Really? Nice speech. What if a web site took money from a company that hired a guy that killed your wife, son and dog would you still feel that that company has something to bring to the table and a valuable asset? Exactly what this situation IS.... But Shouldnt your bitterness be directed at the Site AS WELL AS the company? The gun community/industry doesn't need Troy or his wares, and quite frankly we are better off without him. I absolutely agree, but as you know, we can't just blink our eyes and make it all go away. There are too many solid companies to deal with that are of equal or better quality and cheaper without the attitude and the history of Troy. True, but you are out of line and frankly wrong if you dont admit that Troy products are, or at least, were quality products. Leaving attitudes out of the discussion The Avilas are here to make money and I do NOT fault them for keeping Troy as an Industry Partner. Correct, which I list MY reasons to blieve they are still here above in my "speech" On the other hand, choose wisely with your wallet regardless of where Steve Troy spends his advertising dollars. No where did I say I will continue to purchase Troy products and have no intention of doing so. I have either sold or given away every Troy product I have ever gotten in trade (I've never purchased a Troy product) and I will continue to steer my friends and family away from his products. Good on you, and I dont disagree with this standpoint except that my customers have to decide for themselves based on facts. I refuse to tell someone how they WILL spend their money with my business, but I WILL refuse business if they want those products. also said above in "speech" That's JMO and YMMV. EDIT ABOVE^^ So, what's your point of being sarcastic with your "nice speech" comment? And what is the point of your first statement about a Web site accepting money from a company...? Thats exactly what this situation is.... How does that strengthen whatever argument you make since you also go on to say that you dont Blame the Avilas for keeping them around?? I never said I condoned troy for anything they have done in the past or will do in the future no doubt. I responded to a comment that pointed a finger at the AR15 staff decisions. As I said as well I am looking to replace the one troy product i DO own now, and I also stated that I inform my customers of the FACTS involved with Troy. No where did I say that I support Troy, but I also will not make false statements such as "troy products are garbage" Not saying you did. So, Im not sure if you read the entire response or just a portion that may have not sat well with you, but I seem to be in agreeance with everything you said, but I will not FORCE my opinion upon any of my customers or Friends. But that seems to be the only area in which you and I disagree. Will I spend any more of my Hard earned money with Troy? No sir, and as said above, again, I will inform my customers that if they DO in fact want Troy products, that I am not the person to sell them and they will need to go elsewhere. I dont support Troy's standpoints, actions, or management decisions. I do think Troy makes good products, but that doesn't mean I will buy them or encourage others. I have made it quite clear to the contrary actually. Respectfully, Keep your TLDR speeches. There is no defense here. Troy fucked up big time here and this place wagged their finger with one hand but had their other handed still stretched out getting money put in it. If they made a big announcement saying fuck Troy, we will lose money but no sleep over dumping them I'm SURE people who don't give them money now would start. I know I would. They would make some of the money back through people like me. I'm not mad about it. I'm not jumping up and down. I'm simply stating fact. Long speeches full of gusto can be made by whomever, at the end of the day they still cash the checks. I'll never be in PR and this is why. If it was up to me, Troy would get the boot but their forum here would stay. But I'd change every single thing to say "we are scum" and lock it and leave it on display, forever. Think about it this way. How can you trust the thought process of someone who hires scumbags like Dale? Especially with tons of other qualified people out there? How do you see his resume and not laugh and then mix it in with the dog food, feed it to the watch dogs, pick up the turds after they shit it out, and burn them? |
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Dont you think there is a level of satisfaction to allow Troy to continue to post and watch as people say "OK, you're sorry, but you can still go to hell with the Dale Monroe you rode in on." and not be able to do anything about it? Personally, I think so. Troy made their bed. AR15 is simply allowing them to cuddle up in it while everyone stands in the room damning them. So, you read all 14 pages of this thread along with the court cases Troy is involved with along with the Statement you quoted, but you dont spend another 45 seconds to read a thought out reply that simply explains another possible viewpoint that does not defend Troy, but defends the site? I feel the same way you do about Troy, trust me... |
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Dont you think there is a level of satisfaction to allow Troy to continue to post and watch as people say "OK, you're sorry, but you can still go to hell with the Dale Monroe you rode in on." and not be able to do anything about it? Personally, I think so. Troy made their bed. AR15 is simply allowing them to cuddle up in it while everyone stands in the room damning them. So, you read all 14 pages of this thread along with the court cases Troy is involved with along with the Statement you quoted, but you dont spend another 45 seconds to read a thought out reply that simply explains another possible viewpoint that does not defend Troy, but defends the site? I feel the same way you do about Troy, trust me... View Quote Who are you addressing here? |
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Dont you think there is a level of satisfaction to allow Troy to continue to post and watch as people say "OK, you're sorry, but you can still go to hell with the Dale Monroe you rode in on." and not be able to do anything about it? Personally, I think so. Troy made their bed. AR15 is simply allowing them to cuddle up in it while everyone stands in the room damning them. So, you read all 14 pages of this thread along with the court cases Troy is involved with along with the Statement you quoted, but you dont spend another 45 seconds to read a thought out reply that simply explains another possible viewpoint that does not defend Troy, but defends the site? I feel the same way you do about Troy, trust me... Who are you addressing here? AZfastshooter... But I believe the last statement applies to you as well... Eta you should talk to your buddy Scott and see if he has any plans to develop a pdw stock and really stick it to troy. |
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AZfastshooter... But I believe the last statement applies to you as well... Eta you should talk to your buddy Scott and see if he has any plans to develop a pdw stock and really stick it to troy. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Dont you think there is a level of satisfaction to allow Troy to continue to post and watch as people say "OK, you're sorry, but you can still go to hell with the Dale Monroe you rode in on." and not be able to do anything about it? Personally, I think so. Troy made their bed. AR15 is simply allowing them to cuddle up in it while everyone stands in the room damning them. So, you read all 14 pages of this thread along with the court cases Troy is involved with along with the Statement you quoted, but you dont spend another 45 seconds to read a thought out reply that simply explains another possible viewpoint that does not defend Troy, but defends the site? I feel the same way you do about Troy, trust me... Who are you addressing here? AZfastshooter... But I believe the last statement applies to you as well... Eta you should talk to your buddy Scott and see if he has any plans to develop a pdw stock and really stick it to troy. Scott always has new products on the drawing board. |
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I hate Troy and everything the represent. I also hope they die the slow death they deserve...but watch your 6. It looks like they paid arf more money...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1833420_Please_stop_the_Troy_bashing_threads_and_comments_or_you_risk_an_account_lock_.html |
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I hate Troy and everything the represent. I also hope they die the slow death they deserve...but watch your 6. It looks like they paid arf more money... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1833420_Please_stop_the_Troy_bashing_threads_and_comments_or_you_risk_an_account_lock_.html View Quote Pretty lame, especially since Aimless is usually the site staff that makes the most sense. Oh well I guess. Money talks, and the truth about Troy is out there and really easy to find for someone who does just the smallest amount of research. |
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