Posted: 1/2/2006 2:29:38 PM EDT
| I got my first RRA rifle, an Elite CAR, for Christmas. It malfunctioned on the first range trip after firing only 17 rounds. I disassembled the rifle to find a bent gas ring was causing the bolt to not fully close. A picture of the bolt and gas rings can be seen here. Called RRA and spoke with Scott and he is going to send me three new gas rings. Scott didn’t seem to believe that the rifle left the factory in that condition…but it did. While I am pleased that they are sending the new rings I do not appreciate the fact that he implied I somehow caused the damage. Hopefully the new gas rings will arrive before I go out of town Saturday so I can reassemble and test the rifle. I was very disappointed that the rifle malfunctioned on the first range trip but these things happen I suppose. Just thought I would post my experience with Rock River Arms. |
| I believe that every rifle is function tested and fired at the factory before it is shipped out. Maybe that is the reason for Scott's apparent disbelief. The picture you posted showed a severely damaged gas ring which should have been found before it left their shop. Is there a chance it some how became damaged while at your FFL before you picked it up? Maybe something or someone happened to the AR that neither you nor Scott have knowledge of. My experiences with RRA have been very good, they make an excellent product, and provide very good customer support. Hope all goes well after the new rings are installed. |
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Nliten, I was present when the gun was picked up by the FFL at UPS and they never touched it. The only other possibility of something being damaged outside of RRA is with Eagle Firearms where the gun was purchased. It is possible but doesn't seem likely however it is as likely, as you said, that it would leave RRA in that condition. Who knows? I only know two facts 1) it had a damaged gas ring and malfunctioned and 2) the gas ring was damaged when I got the rifle. My statements about how RRA handled the situation over the phone are purely my opion and should be taken as such. I know that they deal with many people who damaged their rifles themselves, knowingly or unkowningly, and then call expecting new parts under warranty. That coupled with the fact that the rifles are properly function tested before they leave the factory makes it easy to understand why it would be hard to believe. Under the circumstances replacing the gas rings was about all that could be done. They offered for me to return the bolt for them to install the new rings and I declined because I didn't want to wait for shipping and turn around time for something so simple to replace. Despite the malfunction I think the RRA Elite CAR is one of the finest rifles I have owned. It is my first AR and my father and I were totally impressed by its quality and performance. The recoil is almost nonexistent and the ease at which I was able to accurately shoot it at 50 and 100 yards was amazing. If I had it to do over again RRA would still be my first choice. Also, I re-read what I put on my site. I removed the "this is the way it left the factory" part since it is remotely possible it was damaged by the retailer Eagle Firearms or elsewhere before I or my FFL received it. Bear in mind I am not accusing Eagle Firearms in any way. I seems more likely for it to be a factory assembly problem to me. |
The customer is always right at RRA except when they're not.  I also have an Elite CAR and like it a lot. Glad they are taking care of you. |
| Guys, sometimes things happen. I'm glad RRA took care of you. I sold over 200 RRA rifles last year and I had the very same problem with 1 rifle. I fixed it myself and no other problems. Even new Rolex watches sometimes have a problem. It could have been a weak gas ring or whatever. It's machinery and machinery is not perfect. You will love your new rifle. |
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Yep. This doesnt say anything really about the quality of the rifle.... since it functioned fine for the factory test firing, and functioned fine for the first 16 rounds for you, I would venture it a. Was like that from the first assembly, but since it ran fine for test firing and your first 16 rounds.... it went undetected. No fault.... other than poor assembly or bad ring. b. Failed like that on your 16th round, and all subsequent rounds failed. That is a ring failure. Bad ring, or damaged while it was installed. Bottom line - things that are going to break, will typically break when something is new. Find any potential issues, remediate them, and you have a fine rifle. I would be a little miffed if RRA acted like it was my fault, and it could not have left the factory that way. Of course it could have, RRA is not perfect. Nobody is. |
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Sounds like the customer is always right unless you talk to Scott. I will be sure to ask for someone else. You know for the cost of the gun, the frustration, and poor first experience with their product I would like to have seen them do more than just send replacement parts. It seems that there could be a lot of inherent liability having the customer repair a defective product of this type. Besides why should you have to? As far as the testing goes it dosn't matter, it failed in the consumers hands. I guess better on the range than in combat. Have their been any recent design changes in the rings etc? Have you received your parts? Did they over-night them? |
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No changes to the rings in the last couple of years. We offered an RMA for the carrier group, upper half, or complete rifle, but shipping the gas rings was the most expeditious manner of getting him up and running. They were sent and received in a timely manner. We've experimented with bolts/carriers...it couldn't have cycled for the test firing or the first 16 rounds with the ring in that condition. It was something that happened once in the field, whatever the cause may have been. We're certainly not assigning blame anywhere or to anyone...it worked before it left, it worked when received, and on or about shot 17 something went wrong. Steve/RRA |
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Steve, Thanks for the reply. Just called for you but got Scott. We had a nice discussion about my problem. Just wanted to note that the options given to me by Scott the first time I called were to send the bolt in for ring replacement or he would send new rings. Logically, I choose the new rings. I even asked specifically if these were my only options and he said "yes". I wanted to get a running rifle as soon as possible so this was fine. When I called today he said it would be fine to send in the upper if I continue to have problems. I installed the rings last night and I am going to test fire the rifle today. I will have a full repot as soon as possible. Thank you for your support in resolving this issue. |
Steve - just the fact that you actively post here gives me great faith in RRA's commitment to your customers. I already know your rifles are very nice. 
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I try to get into this forum and a couple others throughout the day...but it depends on how things are in the office (unfortunately, production control has to be a bigger part of my day than this). I really do enjoy moderating, and still volunteer for tech calls when I can take them. Steve/RRA |
I'll trade you a RRA UTE upper for your Rolex. It only has about 8,000 trouble free rounds fired through it and I won't charge you extra for the break in. 
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